Batwoman (CW series) -- discussion/speculation (please tag spoilers)

[Annoyed]

To me Christopher Pine doesn't look too different than William Shatner and even Eliza Taylor wouldn't look too different than Ruby with a haircut and dye job and different clothing.

I personally don't care what an actor's sexual orientation or gender identity is because I don't think an actor's real personal life is my business. Pretending to be someone else is their job, I think whoever they cast should openly support lgbtq people and rights, but other than that, I don't think anything else is my business. I understand how others might not feel that way though, and want an actress who is open and out about their sexuality or identity.

I personally would find it too jarring to accept a person who is a lot darker (or super pale) and/or has completely different facial features or height/body type as Kate (1 or 2 inches taller or shorter, 5 lbs heavier or lighter, a skintone a shade or 2 lighter or darker aren't big differences to me, and haircolor or type isn't an issue to me because people dye and straighten their hair all the time). I don't think I could pretend that they are the same person, even from a storytelling perspective, it would just be weird. Even if they go with amsesia and reconstructive surgery to explain a change of appearance and personality in universe (and if they recast I really don't think the actress looking different should be addressed at all), certain things about a person's physical appearance wouldn't change. They could pull a different Kate from a different universe or whatever and use that to explain why she looks completely different, but that would still change character dynamics and they'd have to reestablish the character in the prime universe, so that would solve little since, theyd still be a different character in pretty much all but name.

Added: Black Lightening - https://comicvine.gamespot.com/black...ng/4005-10994/

We seem to look at it quite differently. I'm comfortable with different actors dropping into a role, but gutting the basics of the show bothers me.
You seem to be the opposite.

Thanks for the info on BL. I don't follow comic books.

[Falcon Horus]

The character discription to me brings to mind a hybrid of Catwoman and Wild Dog and maybe a bit of Dinah Drake from Arrow for some reason. I'm not really a fan of the way that character sounds.

A mix between Oliver Queen and Camren's character from Gotham was my explanation to my sister yesterday.

She replied with exactly this statement... (see below)

... how the hell can you have a show called "Batwoman" without Batwoman?

...I wonder the same thing.

...a lot of the story in this is between Beth/Alice and Kate/Batwoman and their origin stories. Take that away, and it's no longer the same show.

Season 1 certainly but if a new character is indeed brought in to take Kate's place as Batwoman, we basically have new origin story to get used to.

Folks do be mindful, the casting description may be used to help actresses not worry about mimicking Ruby Rose.

They still may recast Kate Kane, but putting out a description for a different personality so as to make the casting process easier.

I think putting out a "false" casting call as to not diminish the work Ruby has done with Kate, seems a bit counterproductive at this stage.

But if the best actress happens to be a black woman...

I wouldn't mind Sophie taking up the mantle...

If they try to force a new character in as Batwoman too quickly, have everyone love her immediately, and have her be better than Kate or whatever, it will just drive people who liked Ruby as an actress and Kate as a character away.

I would not kindly upon such move, but that's my unique opinion in a sea of opinions.

To me Christopher Pine doesn't look too different than William Shatner and even Eliza Taylor wouldn't look too different than Ruby with a haircut and dye job and different clothing.

Actually, the better comparison would be how eerily similar the Pine of Discovery looked like the Pine of the original series.

OR have we all forgotten the striking resemblances of the actors to the real people on board the Titanic in the 1997 epic Cameron film with the same name.

If you put a photo of Berhard Hill next to a photo of Captain Smith -- the resemblance is astonishing.

So, it can be done -- with a little computer animation help if need be.

They could pull a different Kate from a different universe or whatever and use that to explain why she looks completely different...

a) the multiverse is gone -- see crisis
b) I think the storyline with the Beth from an alternate universe and Alice existing in the same universe established that same two people from different universes cannot exist in the same universe without one of them dying, plus the same people would still look the same -- f.e. the neverending supply of Harrison Wells's on The Flash.

[aretood2]

a) the multiverse is gone -- see crisis
b) I think the storyline with the Beth from an alternate universe and Alice existing in the same universe established that same two people from different universes cannot exist in the same universe without one of them dying, plus the same people would still look the same -- f.e. the neverending supply of Harrison Wells's on The Flash.

On a side note, I don't believe the multiverse is actually gone. They think it's gone, but it's back or will come back.

[VampyreWraith]

We seem to look at it quite differently. I'm comfortable with different actors dropping into a role, but gutting the basics of the show bothers me.
You seem to be the opposite.

Thanks for the info on BL. I don't follow comic books.

I think we also might be looking at the casting possibilities a bit differently.

I'm not really big on comic books myself, I've only really ever read Batman and Star Wars comics, and some random issues of other things. But I have looked up information on a lot of different comic characters that I like from various movies and TV shows.

A mix between Oliver Queen and Camren's character from Gotham was my explanation to my sister yesterday.

She replied with exactly this statement... (see below)



...I wonder the same thing.



Season 1 certainly but if a new character is indeed brought in to take Kate's place as Batwoman, we basically have new origin story to get used to.



I think putting out a "false" casting call as to not diminish the work Ruby has done with Kate, seems a bit counterproductive at this stage.



I wouldn't mind Sophie taking up the mantle...



I would not kindly upon such move, but that's my unique opinion in a sea of opinions.



Actually, the better comparison would be how eerily similar the Pine of Discovery looked like the Pine of the original series.

OR have we all forgotten the striking resemblances of the actors to the real people on board the Titanic in the 1997 epic Cameron film with the same name.

If you put a photo of Berhard Hill next to a photo of Captain Smith -- the resemblance is astonishing.

So, it can be done -- with a little computer animation help if need be.



a) the multiverse is gone -- see crisis
b) I think the storyline with the Beth from an alternate universe and Alice existing in the same universe established that same two people from different universes cannot exist in the same universe without one of them dying, plus the same people would still look the same -- f.e. the neverending supply of Harrison Wells's on The Flash.

The only reason I brought up bringing in a different version of Kate that looks different from another universe is because right before I wrote that I read an article somewhere about how bringing in a new character would destroy character dynamics and whatever else, and one of the solutions the author mentioned was to bring in a different looking Kate from a different universe. And all I could think of was "how would that maintain the current character dynamics and how is that different that creating a new character", the writer seemed to be more concerned with maintaining the name Kate Kane and the fact that Kate was Jewish than character dynamics, but was using existing character dynamics as a reason a new character would be a bad thing.

Also different Arrowverse shows seem to be handling the existence a multiverse post crisis differently and also seem to be handling the rules of who can and can't exist together differently. And anyway any writer can always just decide if they want, that the multiverse still exists but differently and the characters just didn't know about it. And also weren't there different versions of superman that looked different, so maybe not all versions of the same character across all universes look the same. And again, changing the rules and making things up as they go is pretty common in the Arrowverse.

I do believe that finding another actress that bears a resemblance to Ruby can be done, and if they find one, they should go for a recast instead of a new character.

[P-90_177]

On a side note, I don't believe the multiverse is actually gone. They think it's gone, but it's back or will come back.

You in fact see that the multiverse still exists at the end of Crisis. It is edited to make it clear that Titans, Green Lantern, Stargirl and Kingdom Superman all have their own realities.

[Annoyed]

I think we also might be looking at the casting possibilities a bit differently.

I'm not really big on comic books myself, I've only really ever read Batman and Star Wars comics, and some random issues of other things. But I have looked up information on a lot of different comic characters that I like from various movies and TV shows.



The only reason I brought up bringing in a different version of Kate that looks different from another universe is because right before I wrote that I read an article somewhere about how bringing in a new character would destroy character dynamics and whatever else, and one of the solutions the author mentioned was to bring in a different looking Kate from a different universe. And all I could think of was "how would that maintain the current character dynamics and how is that different that creating a new character", the writer seemed to be more concerned with maintaining the name Kate Kane and the fact that Kate was Jewish than character dynamics, but was using existing character dynamics as a reason a new character would be a bad thing.

Also different Arrowverse shows seem to be handling the existence a multiverse post crisis differently and also seem to be handling the rules of who can and can't exist together differently. And anyway any writer can always just decide if they want, that the multiverse still exists but differently and the characters just didn't know about it. And also weren't there different versions of superman that looked different, so maybe not all versions of the same character across all universes look the same. And again, changing the rules and making things up as they go is pretty common in the Arrowverse.

I do believe that finding another actress that bears a resemblance to Ruby can be done, and if they find one, they should go for a recast instead of a new character.

That's something that pisses me off about a lot of people who create content these days. They choose to work in an existing universe and rewrite the damned thing so that they can do whatever floats their boat. If you want to go your own way, fine, create a new story/universe and have a ball. You might get a hit, you might fall on your face. But it seems that they want the security of an existing franchise AND the ability to write it to suit their desires.

If they can find her twin, great. Be almost seamless. But I'm not all that concerned with appearance. As long as the actress can carry the role.

[Annoyed]

Like, it's not as if they're gonna have to recast a role that can't be recast, like the 2008 reboot of "Knight Rider", where they tried to cast a Ford Mustang as K.I.T.T.

K.I.T.T. is a PONTIAC!!

[VampyreWraith]

That's something that pisses me off about a lot of people who create content these days. They choose to work in an existing universe and rewrite the damned thing so that they can do whatever floats their boat. If you want to go your own way, fine, create a new story/universe and have a ball. You might get a hit, you might fall on your face. But it seems that they want the security of an existing franchise AND the ability to write it to suit their desires.

If they can find her twin, great. Be almost seamless. But I'm not all that concerned with appearance. As long as the actress can carry the role.

I understand what you mean. It can be annoying when everyone is doing their own thing and there isn't one coherent vision for a franchise. Histories/rules/ characters/ are rewritten to suit whatever story whoever happens to be in charge at the time wants to tell. I don't mind it when things fill in the blanks of time period that was never touched upon, create new characters or worlds to explore or something along those lines, as long as it doesn't contradict what's already been established or fundamentaly change it. If someone wants to do something that's different than what's already been established and wants to do it within the same franchise, create an alternate unerverse or timeline, I don't mind that, I think it's a good way to explore "what ifs" and different points of view.

I'm fine with a recast or a new character, (the new character can be a completely original character, a different character from the comics, or an alternate universe version of Kate). Whatever they do it has to be plausible in universe and if they go the new character/replacement route, I hope they don't rush things.

[VampyreWraith]

Like, it's not as if they're gonna have to recast a role that can't be recast, like the 2008 reboot of "Knight Rider", where they tried to cast a Ford Mustang as K.I.T.T.

K.I.T.T. is a PONTIAC!!

LOL, I can't tell one brand of car from another, to me if it's the same color and size it's the same car lol.

[Infinite-Possibilities]

The multiverse technically isn't gone, but as a concept in the Arrowverse, it functionally is gone. They can't travel to alternate realities anymore, and the realities that consisted of Arrowverse show dopplegangers have been wiped out.

[Falcon Horus]

On a side note, I don't believe the multiverse is actually gone. They think it's gone, but it's back or will come back.

They can always bring it back if they want to. Anything is possible.

You in fact see that the multiverse still exists at the end of Crisis. It is edited to make it clear that Titans, Green Lantern, Stargirl and Kingdom Superman all have their own realities.

Mm... I thought they just existed in "our" universe now.

Like, it's not as if they're gonna have to recast a role that can't be recast, like the 2008 reboot of "Knight Rider", where they tried to cast a Ford Mustang as K.I.T.T.

K.I.T.T. is a PONTIAC!!

I really enjoyed that reboot. I have it on DVD -- was never on TV.

But yes, Kitt is a Pontiac, always. Not a Mustang.

LOL, I can't tell one brand of car from another, to me if it's the same color and size it's the same car lol.

Side by side:

The original Kitt as a Pontiac...


...and the rebooted Kitt as a Ford Mustang...


...it's all in the nose (and its backside, and build).

The multiverse technically isn't gone, but as a concept in the Arrowverse, it functionally is gone. They can't travel to alternate realities anymore, and the realities that consisted of Arrowverse show dopplegangers have been wiped out.

So no Multiverse!Kate...

[P-90_177]

Mm... I thought they just existed in "our" universe now.

Nope. Stargirl is Earth 2, Titans is Earth 9, Green Lantern is Earth 12, Swamp Thing Earth 19, Doom Patrol is Earth 21 and Kingdom Come Superman is Earth 96. Earth Prime merged only certain worlds and the Crisis cut off the possibility of accessing the others... Coincidentally the ones not in the Arrowverse.

[Annoyed]

I really enjoyed that reboot. I have it on DVD -- was never on TV.

But yes, Kitt is a Pontiac, always. Not a Mustang.

Side by side:

The original Kitt as a Pontiac...


...and the rebooted Kitt as a Ford Mustang...


...it's all in the nose (and its backside, and build).

I've got the original series on DVD. I did watch the reboot, but I never thought it held a candle to the original. Aside from the automotive blasphemy, they changed the whole character of the show in a way I didn't like in order to appeal to a younger audience.

[Annoyed]

LOL, I can't tell one brand of car from another, to me if it's the same color and size it's the same car lol.

I actually have an easier time recognizing automotive styling than I do people's faces. Particularly with women. Hell, you guys can go to the drugstore and buy an entirely different face in makeup bottles.

[VampyreWraith]

They can always bring it back if they want to. Anything is possible.



Mm... I thought they just existed in "our" universe now.



I really enjoyed that reboot. I have it on DVD -- was never on TV.

But yes, Kitt is a Pontiac, always. Not a Mustang.



Side by side:

The original Kitt as a Pontiac...


...and the rebooted Kitt as a Ford Mustang...


...it's all in the nose (and its backside, and build).



So no Multiverse!Kate...

I've walked up to other cars thinking they were mine lol. I'm horrible at telling cars apart. I'd make the worst witness to a crime involving a car. This would be me: "it was white car with 4 doors, well I think it had 4 doors, it might have been 2. I know it definitely was a car and not an suv or truck".

Maybe they could have a multiverse Kate if she's already in the prime universe, and that could say she's so biologically different (hence different appearance and maybe age) that things wouldn't affect her the way they did the Beths. Maybe in another universe Beth didn't have a twin but a younger sister named Kate, she could be a half sibling or even adopted.

I actually have an easier time recognizing automotive styling than I do people's faces. Particularly with women. Hell, you guys can go to the drugstore and buy an entirely different face in makeup bottles.

I'm pretty bad with names and faces. With me, if people get a haircut or really different hair style I think they're a different person. Or if 2 people have pretty much the same haircut/ style I get them mixed up easily. I had one co-worker who was constantly switching up her hair. Every time she would do something different to it, I thought she was a new hire. Then, this other girl who had curly hair at first decided to straighten it, and when I saw her again I kept thinking she was another girl that had the same long straight hair, and that the other girl had just lost some weight and that's why she looked different.