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    Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
    I'm by all means not saying you're not entitled to your view point. Star Trek is different things to different people. But What I'm saying is there is still value it what they're depicting here and it by far doesn't betray the core values of the franchise.
    You make good points but yeah as you say its different things to different people. Picard feels very different to classicTrek and while we were told to expect that this is really not the kind of different I enjoy. A lot of it feels more like lazy writing than them letting us guess what the science is or how things came to be.

    Of course there are so many episodes in classic Trek that are so bad haha. However they were usually surrounded by a lot of good episodes and overall a much better show.

    Picard being only 10 episodes long means their stinkers need to be really few and far between and sadly that's not been the case IMO. 3 episodes I thought were garbage, 4 were so so leaving 3 that were pretty good.

    Anyway time for my final Episode 10 old man rant lol..

    Spoiler:

    Kinda glad its all over as in these last few weeks it felt like I was just waiting for them to find new ways to disappoint me lol. Now that it's done I don't have to worry about it lol.

    So.. that last episode.. once again we've got some good things but mostly things that annoyed me lol..

    I enjoyed the Picard noble sacrifice to save Soji (from her fears) scene.. tugged on the old heart strings a bit so well done there. Was also nice to see Picard flying a ship and being himself a bit more instead of the usual helpless old man in the back seat stuff. Liked the Picard maneuver (the ship one not the shirt one lol) reference too..

    Sure enough my prediction of Picard becoming an android, or more accurately an organic synthetic came true. Felt a bit weird though as lets face it, it's kinda like cloning in that they made an electronic copy of his mind meaning the Picard we know and love has just actually died lol. Not really sure how to feel about that other than it sucks a bit.

    People who may remember my earlier posts here will know that my hope was that this series was all about resurrecting Data and undoing the damage Nemesis did. I was almost willing to accept all the other BS that had happened if that was the target. So I really hoped the golum would be for him and not a quick Picard resurrection. So when Picard bought it I knew what was coming...

    But then he woke up in the simulation and there was data saying exactly what I had posted in previous posts that I'd hoped would happen. They combined those residual Data memories Maddox had generated for his synths with B4's backup of Data's brain to make a pretty much complete resurrected Data (from the moment he did the transfer a day or so before his death in Nemesis). I was so excited! The moment I'd been waiting for! But of course this is a Michael Chabon show and he wants to make Star Trek and its fans as miserable as possible lol so naturally a matter of seconds later this amazing resurrection that so many of us had dreamed of happening for almost 20 damn years was shown to be nothing more than a tease because Data asks to die. Picard then mercy kills him just like 7 of 9 mercy killed Icheb. Michael watched his father suffer & die slowly on life support while writing these new shows which is a horrible thing to go through (I dread having to go through something like that with my mother) and unfortunately all this stuff is probably him creatively dealing with that pain but unfortunately he's dealing with it using the Star Trek universe and characters loved by millions people. I get it, they wanted to give a data 'beautiful death' instead of the cheap one he got in Nemesis hence why I've seen people out there touched and happy with it. But as someone who pretty much was dying (pun not intended lol) to watch this series believing it was all gonna be about Data's resurrection I feel cheated. To tease him being back like that only to take him away just makes me wanna hop over to Michael's twitter and throw some 4 letter words his way (I won't though cause I don't wanna be a d*ck lol). Judging by this article he wouldn't care anyway and for those excited that he's not the main guy behind season 2 well guess what, that article confirms he's written 2 eps and also brainstormed the other 8 for season 2.. so yeah expect more attempts to make us miserable (if we watch) in the future lol.

    character limit...
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      Continued...

      Spoiler:
      I wish they could have brought Data back.. yes I'm not stupid.. I know Brent doesn't exactly look like Data anymore hence the mountain of makeup and weird camera angles of him sitting or standing to hide his belly making it half impossible to have him around all the time. However they could have brought him back and then have him go back to starfleet or earth or go on his own ventures or something. You know just send him off into the galaxy with happy "All Good Things" like moment to finish his ark. Let us fans think of him living on forever going on adventures and continuing his question to evolve. Let that be the last thing we see of him.. not him dying AGAIN. The face growing old (doesn't make any sense unless they programmed the event) and a virtual duplicate Picard in the red uniform standing over him, even though Picard had been extracted already (another copy lol??) all painted to give a beautiful death triggering an emotional response that makes some forget the weirdness and lack of science and sense behind it lol. However there's nothing stopping them from resurrecting Data again so screw you Michael I'm going to choose to believe that Dr Soon Jr Jr Jr Jr being the sneaky guy he is backed up another copy of Data's mind, waited for Picard to leave then stuck Data in another golum and now he's out there living happily every after lol. Picard's "my gain is your loss line" implies Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr can't make another golum but get stuffed.. Maddox did the brains and Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr did the bodies, nothing stopping him from making more lol.

      Anyway back to Picard's death and resurrection wtf was with them rush skipping over most of the casts reaction to him being back again. Once again Michael's story telling has us in pain watching everyone cry for like 10 damn minutes and then doesn't bother to cover everyone seeing him alive again except for Dr Death, Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr and Soji. Literally straight back on the ship like nothing happened lol.

      Speaking of that final ship scene I've seen some people confusingly posting "are Raffi and 7 of 9 lovers?" well that 2nd article I linked I linked to above has Michael confirming it.. action jackson 7 of 9 had a thing with that crime lord chick she vaporized and she's got a thing with Raffi or whatever her name is (I just cannot remember these new cast member names haha), so expect more of the stuff we've seen from Discovery in Picard season 2 (poor Chakotay haha). I'll leave that for others to debate the merits of all that as it doesn't really bother me, other than to say I find their 'all or nothing' approach a bit weird as does this mean the other shows coming (ST Section 31, ST Pike, ST Lower Decks) will do the same?

      Oh and speaking of 7 of 9.. how did the Romulan evil chick get back on the cube to fight 7 of 9??? she left the cube with the fleet several eps ago didn't she???

      I saw some article a few days ago which I can't seem to find now sorry but it talked about plans for a crossover series that would involve casts members from all the different new trek shows.. pretty much the marvel avengers of new star trek lol. I really don't know how to feel about that lol. I mean if this had been 30 years ago and we had Kirk, Picard, Sisko, Janeway and Archer and other cast members all in one big crossover event series that would have been epic (hell I think there's a popular Novel series out there that sort of did that isn't here?) but massive crossover series with new trek people.. I'm a bit meh.. but hey ya never know lol.

      Anyway back to the Picard finale.. the whole fleet stand off didn't really excite me much at all (other than Picards noble sacrifice I mentioned earlier).. we saw those damn space flowers you saw me moaning about last time again haha, then they used that 'magical plot hole device' to generate duplicate Dr death faces and then the ships all with warp core illusions. Come on man this a advanced Romulan fleet, not those idiot half primitive Kazon in the Delta quadrant that fell for voyagers holograms but anyway.. this all lead to a rather amazing sequence where the evil commodore half Vulcan chick just kept preparing to fire and retargeting.. I think after the 5th or 6th time I actually yelled out (no BS I kid you not) at the TV "STOP PREPARING AND JUST FIRE THE F******** WEAPONS AT SOMETHING ALREADY!!!" hahahaha.

      Then Riker shows up to give us some fan service. Kinda cool but once again just like with Soong Jr Jr Jr Jr 's reveal in the prev episode the delivery just.. felt.. wrong! Urgh. I mean I know he said he's on the active service list still but he's been retired for years and they just give him command of a huge fleet right off the bat, no admirals needed lol? They wouldn't even give Picard a crappy old science vessel but they'll give Riker a friggin fleet lol! I expected the admiral who swears a lot to be in charge of it to be honest. But hey's there's some fan service to be given here and I guess I should be happy Michael didn't try to kill him off too lol! I've seen people on the internet making fun of the obvious CGI background behind him too.. I can see why, as it doesn't look any better than the ones in the fan film Star Wreck, a movie made by a bunch of Finnish nerds in their bedrooms 20years ago lol (great film though haha). If we're wrong and that's a redressed discovery set or something then boy did they mess that up as it really looks fake lol.

      And what the hell was going on with all the ships????? The entire romulan fleet was made out of 1 ship design plus a special capital command ship. These guys lost their homeworld and the vast majority of their population yet apparently they can afford to throw out all their old ships (except for that 22nd century Rom ship in ep 4 lol) and have a brand spanking new fleet lol. I mean this was the PERFECT opportunity to give more fan service and fill the fleet with old Valdors and D'deridex's.

      Copy and paste a lot of that for Riker's fleet too. He warped in with 200 friggin ships that look the same.. what the hell!! When I think back to the giant federation fleets used in the Dominion war that were filled with old ships.. by then excelsiors would have been about 90 years old (at least the design anyway) and reliants and saratogas would have been over 110 years old. So why not stick some old galaxys, sovereigns and defiants in this fleet??

      For a show that has a budget the old trek shows could only dream of I'm amazed that they literally built 2 giant fleets of the same ships using copy & paste.. Also was it just me or did the ships also look rather fake CGI looking.. they must have accidentally blown the budget out and run out of money.. that has to the be the reason for calling it in surely? The CGI DS9 fleets looked better than this for christ sake. This video pretty much confirms it lol.

      Anyway then he just left... a dying Picard is like "oh yeah I can handle it from here Will".. and Wills like "sure bro.. I'll take all these ships we had to pull from vital missions and just turn around after being here for all 5 minutes" lol. If I was the Vulcan commodore chick I would have said "hey the federation is abandoning the planet again lets turn around and blow sh*t up before they come back again.. EVERYONE PREPARE TO FIRE SOME MORE!!!" lol.. Someone that obsessed aint gonna care about the treaty of Algeron. Also she's responsible for the deaths of everyone on Mars and most of the Romulan homeworld (by destroying the rescue fleet).. but nah its cool you can fly off lol.

      Oh well.. I could pick at a bunch of other things but I'll stop complaining haha.. time to move on! I'll probably still cop the hater title from some people who loved it but like I said before normally I love all scifi and am super tolerant and am often the one taking on the haters lol but this show (much like the new main star wars films) just rubbed me the wrong way from ep5 onwards.. I guess its because these characters that I grew up with mean a lot to me and I don't like seeing them having to run the Michael Chabon gantlet of death and misery.

      At this stage I now actually prefer Discovery over Picard. Probably because they're not screwing with my beloved childhood characters as much haha which means I can tolerate more plot and technology gaffes. I thought they handled Spock and Pike pretty well in s2 and it really made the show so much better having them and the Enterprise there. So I worry a bit about Disco s3 as they won't have those improvements anymore.. however I'm super excited about the ST Pike show. At least they listened to the fans on that one!
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      Comment


        i called the ending-with few errors- way back in the beginning of march... hey, i am not usually right so i got to brag when i get the chance!
        <<besides,, i really peeved off a few people at "that other site" when i said it and then was right!!! >>>

        Spoiler:
        ok,, crazy, outside darkhorse bets on what may happen in PICARD, time

        i am putting out one now---

        either in the course of the show- like next season, or at its end, Picard will be near death and he will have his consciousness uploaded into a synthetic body

        an apex of his human and borg experience and his affinity for Data all purpose built into a machine that is part Soong synth and part Borg

        mark your calendars folks!!
        THIS SPACE FOR RENT
        YJ02, Mar 3, 2020EditDeleteReportReputation#484Reply


        https://www.gatefans.net/gforums/thr....28948/page-25

        Comment


          Been said the reason why in Picard we saw none of the following is due to licensing issues and fees. that kurtzman did not pay for their use or Paramount simply would not sell the rights--YEA OR NAY?

          - no "known" starfleet or romulan ship designs
          -No mention of Chakotay
          -No hard tie in with TNG/VOY backstory on several characters vis a vis their situation in PICARD- like Icheb and Hugh. IE: why is the Icheb character "thrown away" possibly the most important asset SF gained from voyager-why put him on some unimportant ship?

          how did Hugh get off of his planet we saw in TNG? how did he end up on a still -assimilating Cube? And again we see him in PICARD not in any recognizable character form as we saw him in TNG and then, killed off so meaninglesly-why have him in the show at all?

          -also the lack of many other standard TNG/VOY iconic items like same style transporters, lack of standard comms and console controls, different personal weapons..etc.etc

          is it all about the money?

          Comment


            Originally posted by magi877 View Post
            Been said the reason why in Picard we saw none of the following is due to licensing issues and fees. that kurtzman did not pay for their use or Paramount simply would not sell the rights--YEA OR NAY?

            - no "known" starfleet or romulan ship designs
            -No mention of Chakotay
            -No hard tie in with TNG/VOY backstory on several characters vis a vis their situation in PICARD- like Icheb and Hugh. IE: why is the Icheb character "thrown away" possibly the most important asset SF gained from voyager-why put him on some unimportant ship?

            how did Hugh get off of his planet we saw in TNG? how did he end up on a still -assimilating Cube? And again we see him in PICARD not in any recognizable character form as we saw him in TNG and then, killed off so meaninglesly-why have him in the show at all?

            -also the lack of many other standard TNG/VOY iconic items like same style transporters, lack of standard comms and console controls, different personal weapons..etc.etc

            is it all about the money?
            Since it's 20 years after Nemesis I don't see why any of it matters any way. I don't know much about licensing, but it is true that most of the recognisable ship designs we know like the Excelsior, Miranda, Akira, Sovereign, Steamrunner, Sabre, etc. were all created in movie form first. So if it is true about this split in rights between the movies and TV shows then that would be a part of it. But given that it is 20 years later I don't see why there wouldn't be brand new ship classes anyway, so why should we see any of the older ships at all? I get it. Fan service and all that and I would have loved to see them too, but there's no big need to see them. And ultimately these new shows are going for a new aesthetic and I am all for that. I want to see what new designs they come up with, not how they can reuse someone else's work.

            Now all that being said, the Inquiry Class was pretty low res and we didn't get a great look at it. These are flaws in the episode, but at the end of the day Picard was a VERY VFX heavy show, particularly towards the end of the series so both time and money become a factor in the creation of these things.

            For the other points you mentioned... Why?
            Why do we need Chakotay mentioned? To explain why he and Seven aren't together? Why bother when most people hated that pairing in the first place? There's only so much time in an episode and you can't waste it by just throwing in pointless exposition in regards to characters that don't matter.
            Does it matter how Hugh got to the Artifact? We know at the end of Descent that he was staying on that planet with the other disconnected Borg to try and build a new society. They either figured out how to remove their own implants, which makes perfectly sound sense since we saw that the Co-Operative Borg from season 3 of Voyager do the same, or they got some knowledge of how to do so once Seven returned and likely found them at some point because we know Seven and Hugh know each other and why wouldn't they when we know they are both disconnected Borg? Same as why Seven and Picard would already know eachother. It's not like there are many liberated drones, it's more than likely that they would seek each other out. We don't need that spelling out for us. Same with Hugh being on the Artifact in the first place. Last we saw him he was working to help liberated Borg, so it's perfectly in keeping for the character that nearly 30 years later he would still be doing that.

            Now Icheb is a good point, I grant. I personally never felt a strong attachment to him in Voyager but I get that some people do, but if you start from the point of wanting to give Seven a redemption arc (which I have no doubt will be continued in season 2) then killing Icheb is a perfectly fine place to start. The whole point is to demonstrate that just like in real life, the world has moved on since those old shows were on and it generally feels much less safe and we all feel more vulnerable and that extends to the Star Trek family. Life continued after the safety of their adventures on board their respective ships whether that be Enterprise or Voyager and bad things happened to good people. I think showing his death the way they did was a step too far. I think even Michael Chabon has admitted that if he could do it over he wouldn't have done it that way, but thematically it works to my mind because what we saw was something as horrific as what happens to Borg when they are first assimilated and a big part of the show was about how Borg are thought of still as drones even when they are not.

            For stuff like phasers, tricorders and other tech I don't see why we'd see any of it anyway. Again it's 20 years later. Are you still using your phone from 20 years ago? Just in regards to Phasers I can think of off the top of my head fifteen different hand phaser designs seen across the Prime franchise. That's not even counting the rifles. And Rios is a civilian so why would he even have Starfleet issued tech beyond the basics like the TNG hypospray Juratti uses on Picard. It's such a tiny nitpick that it shouldn't be worth mentioning.

            Ultimately, my point is, that yeah I mean that stuff might not be in the show because of rights issues. Who knows. But I don't see how having any of that stuff in the show would make it better beyond filling it with even more Easter eggs that the show already has loads of.
            Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

            Comment


              Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post


              For the other points you mentioned... Why?
              Why do we need Chakotay mentioned?

              Does it matter how Hugh got to the Artifact? We know at the end of Descent that he was staying on that planet with the other disconnected Borg to try and build a new society. They either figured out how to remove their own implants, which makes perfectly sound sense since we saw that the Co-Operative Borg from season 3 of Voyager do the same, or they got some knowledge of how to do so once Seven returned

              Now Icheb is a good point, I grant.
              Chakotay's status would be important because it is with him that we lost saw 7 prior to this

              doing it the way they did here is like reading a book where chpts 1 -10 have a character and then, for no explained reason, the character never appears again.

              one short simple throwaway line of "he got xyz disease" or "he's in a native american hermitage on planet Ke-moh sah-be" would have been great

              IMO it does matter how Hugh got where he did. when we last we saw him, he was leading a group of freed borg on Lore's planet. thats it. Did he and his people even have a cube then?

              and then, boom! he's a researcher onboard a Romulan experiment (and he is apparently human, something not touched on in TNG) for no apparent reason does this role need to be FILLED by Hugh. But being able to secure a fmailiar face from TNG helps to give recognition to PICARD

              but then he is just dead... his death really not meaning much at all

              <<and just why were the romulans so interested in this cube and former borg anyhow? i was really hoping for more romulan/borg interaction. there are a lot of fan theories out there about Borg origins (at least in their cyborg form) and the Romulans. been interesting to see at least some explanation of why the Romulans were so interested in this cube

              Icheb-he wasn't just killed, he was slaughtered. That scene was texas chainsaw quality gore-especially for star trek

              and, as I said, i just dont buy that either Icheb, headstrong as he was or Starfleet would have allowed him ot be wasted on some patrol ship. He was a valuable piece of "human" intell from both the Borg and the Delta quadrant.

              that, together with his innate knack for science.. i dont see his character ever leaving SF HQ
              ------------------------------

              all three of these characters are missing backstory's but we got the backstory on a character we never even knew of- Riker's son. and just what purpose did that story fill?
              ---------------------
              PICARD s1 leaves viewers with a lot of supposition to do own our own. filling in the holes and building reasons to bridge the "if it didn't happen on screen-or at least talked about- then it didn't happen" issue

              ---------------------
              I hope hoping that any licensing issues between cbs and viacom/paramount and kurtzman are erased due to the recent merger of cbs- viacom. this would allow-one would think, for full use of any and all material,characters ,ship designs, story lines ,etc for subsequent seasons of PICARD

              But i have been told that this is not the case (stress on "told" with no citation provided)

              i do like PICARD, i hope it does great, just hope they can polish it up a bit more and stop being so purposefully "Edgy" ..just do Trek

              Comment


                I thought Discovery season 1 was okay but there were many things that annoyed me. Season 2 was a huge improvement for me however that was mainly due to the additional cast members playing Pike, Spock and Number One on the enterprise, there was still some silly stuff (lazy writing plot hole things as usual) that annoyed me though. Season 3 loses those great additions so I fear it'll disappoint me again lol. My love of the Disco season 2 Enterprise content of course also leaves me super excited for Star Trek Strange New Worlds (aka the Star Trek Pike show fans demanded heh) as they've said it will be a more traditional episodic Star Trek adventure show on the Enterprise! So hopefully they can't screw that up too much... although there's some rumour (possibly BS) out there that it's also going to have a young bisexual Kirk running about in the show so read into that what you will lol!!

                Back to good old Picard.. I've decided I'm not going to call it that anymore now. To me this show shall now be known as 'Patrick Stewart Goes To Space' (PSGTS for short) as there really isn't much Star Trek or Picard in it lol!!! I've been waiting for the 'Critical Drinker' to review PSGTS as I've become an fan of his after seeing his Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker reviews on those cluster****s. Sure enough in the video below you can see he hates it and he talks about Picard himself being rather useless just like I talked about in my episode reviews earlier in this thread. Yes I know hating on stuff is kind of his gimmick haha but he makes good points that match a lot of my previously posted thoughts.

                This is Patrick Stewart Goes To Space!


                And this is Star Trek Picard baby!!


                .
                Last edited by Blake00; 05 July 2020, 06:53 AM.
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                  Originally posted by Blake00 View Post
                  I thought Discovery season 1 was okay but there were many things that annoyed me. Season 2 was a huge improvement for me however that was mainly due to the additional cast members playing Pike, Spock and Number One on the enterprise, there was still some silly stuff (lazy writing plot hole things as usual) that annoyed me though. Season 3 loses those great additions so I fear it'll disappoint me again lol. My love of the Disco season 2 Enterprise content of course also leaves me super excited for Star Trek Strange New Worlds (aka the Star Trek Pike show fans demanded heh) as they've said it will be a more traditional episodic Star Trek adventure show on the Enterprise! So hopefully they can't screw that up too much... although there's some rumour (possibly BS) out there that it's also going to have a young bisexual Kirk running about in the show so read into that what you will lol!!

                  Back to good old Picard.. I've decided I'm not going to call it that anymore now. To me this show shall now be known as 'Patrick Stewart Goes To Space' (PSGTS for short) as there really isn't much Star Trek or Picard in it lol!!! I've been waiting for the 'Critical Drinker' to review PSGTS as I've become an fan of his after seeing his Last Jedi and Rise of Skywalker reviews on those cluster****s. Sure enough in the video below you can see he hates it and he talks about Picard himself being rather useless just like I talked about in my episode reviews earlier in this thread. Yes I know hating on stuff is kind of his gimmick haha but he makes good points that match a lot of my previously posted thoughts.

                  This is Patrick Stewart Goes To Space!


                  And this is Star Trek Picard baby!!


                  .
                  According to the New Frontier books Number One was actually an immortal who often went by Morgan Primus and was the mother of Robin Lefler...hmm....potential crossover with "Highlander"

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by mad_gater View Post
                    According to the New Frontier books Number One was actually an immortal who often went by Morgan Primus and was the mother of Robin Lefler...hmm....potential crossover with "Highlander"
                    Well having not bought any more of the NF books beyond the first four(?) volumes in the range, I rejoined the spin-off with the graphic novel thinking I could rejoin it easily enoug but instead found myself utterly lost by some storylines and character development and that particular story aspect of it you mentioned was...if you'll pardon the pun...Number One on my list.

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                      Vinyl Soundtrack And More ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Tie-Ins Coming This Summer And Fall

                      I know this article is from July, but I just now saw this and I don't remember seeing an article about this on Star Trek's website:
                      ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Season One Arrives On Blu-Ray And DVD In October

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                        ‘Star Trek: Picard’ Season 2 Teaser: Patrick Stewart Ponders The Final Frontier, Hints At A Familiar Character’s Return

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                          The Season 2 teaser trailer for Picard which was made available earlier this month:


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                            Star Trek: Picard Offers First Look at Q's Return in New Season 2 Teaser — Watch

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                              Q is looking an awful lot like Alex Trebek nowadays

                              Comment


                                Star Trek: Picard Renewed for Season 3 — Plus, Q Gives Jean-Luc a Fresh Puzzle to Solve in New Season 2 Trailer

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