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  1. #21
    Lieutenant Colonel Az'ryel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithTech View Post
    That would weave a more complex world-building and make things more compelling. Wraith are already human and insect hybrids-- something both groups often forget.
    I have the feeling though that by most humans on Pegasus Wraith might be considered as useless and annoying as they sure see some insects.

    Who knows maybe a child of a Wraith and a human would look less Wraith-like, so that it would be a bit easier to make people see that it's not just for one side but also could understand the needs of the others

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    I often wondered about that as well, where are the Wraith children? Wraith couple? Female Wraiths other than queens? The only youngling we've seen was the ''adopted'' baby wraith by the scientist in the forest (forgot which episode). We learned that younger wraiths need to sustain themselves on real food.

    Considering the fact that Wraith are immortals, would it be a fair assessment that Wraiths simply don't need to reproduce? Perhaps not on the same level than humans?
    I think Wraith can reproduce like humans can, don't take that as a given but in my mind they were always like humans in that

    Also, I understand your point in having children to not let a bloodline or race die out but I do not think that can be the only reason for which to have a child, Some people just want to because they wish to teach at they know and give love to a small being, or want to be loved back in the way only a child will.
    If we look at the point of immortality I would even say it would be an advantage to have many children so you are not alone when all your friends and associates who are not immortal die
    Last edited by Az'ryel; July 16th, 2018 at 10:46 AM.

  2. #22
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Az'ryel View Post
    I think Wraith can reproduce like humans can, don't take that as a given but in my mind they were always like humans in that
    Might be so, but if females are so few as we are led to believe, how could one male Wraith be granted an ''audience'' with a queen? That being said, if the Queens are the only means of reproduction, they could assume complete control over the entire Wraith population!

    Also, I understand your point in having children to not let a bloodline or race die out but I do not think that can be the only reason for which to have a child, Some people just want to because they wish to teach at they know and give love to a small being, or want to be loved back in the way only a child will.
    It's always possible that there might be some Wraiths out there that would have children for this reason, but it would surprise me that it's a generalized phenomenon. It's hard to tell since we've never seen any example of wraith intimate relationships, as some posters mentioned previously.

    TODD: If I had taken the blame I would have been killed and you would have been held captive. That was not the desired outcome. You must understand: our culture is different from your own. We govern ourselves by different rules. It was important for you to claim ownership of the act of killing the Queen.
    The Queen Season 5
    If we look at the point of immortality I would even say it would be an advantage to have many children so you are not alone when all your friends and associates who are not immortal die
    Humans have short lifespan, therefore the need to reproduce is an inner instinct of our race. We need younger men and women to take over the jobs we had to ensure continuity of our race.

    If I'd be immortal I wouldn't wanna stay alone! But, if I try to use a Wraith mindset: if you could live well over 10k years, would you really want to have a bunch of children that could eventually challenge your position of authority in a Hive? If I was in such a position, I would probably only have one child.

    We still have no clue how ''real wraiths'' (not the clones) are conceived. If it is through normal breeding, I would agree with you. If it's not and done via a Queen in a process similar to the one we've seen in the cloning facility, I would say it doesn't really matter if a Wraith dies, as long as the Queen survives. I am not even convinced a Queen needs a male wraith to have children. Some insects in our wildlife can switch gender and do it on their own. Why not them?

    I also recall a comment made by WraithTech in a different thread that talked about the fact that there isn't that many ''normal wraiths'' out there. My assumption is that they might not want to divide power that easily, since there's a limit to the amount of ''jobs'' in position of authority. If a Queen has indeed complete control, she would probably want to limit the amount of overlords and captains. I can't picture a Wraith being content with being assigned to a Drone jarhead job.

    I'm really starting to feel like there's a HUGE part missing in the SGA story.

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Az'ryel View Post
    I think Wraith can reproduce like humans can, don't take that as a given but in my mind they were always like humans in that
    Ah, the joys of speculation about Wraith reproduction. With the wikia accepting the tie-ins as canon, there are often contradictions about this topic even within the same wiki article, because even the books from the same publisher have radically different ideas and each wiki writer is looking at a different book. It goes back how the show's producers didn't show us much about the Wraith.
    ~~~Stargate Wraith Mania Stargate Atlantis Wraith fan reference site~~~

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    I also recall a comment made by WraithTech in a different thread that talked about the fact that there isn't that many ''normal wraiths'' out there.
    I don't remember using that phrase, but if whoever said it was talking about there seeming to be a lower number of officers to the masked warriors, I think there is such a ratio imbalance and that it is so that the masked warriors do most of the risky work. I have not yet solidified many masked warrior theories as they are mysterious in and of themselves and have differing opinions on clones, normalcy, and mattering who dies, such as clones, which does also include Carson clone. It matters to me if characters die or not. I don't want to join this part of the off-topic convo and only made this post because my name was mentioned and misquoted (not the first time that has happened, including in this thread).
    Last edited by WraithTech; July 17th, 2018 at 04:06 AM.
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  5. #25
    Lieutenant Colonel Az'ryel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithTech View Post
    Ah, the joys of speculation about Wraith reproduction. With the wikia accepting the tie-ins as canon, there are often contradictions about this topic even within the same wiki article, because even the books from the same publisher have radically different ideas and each wiki writer is looking at a different book. It goes back how the show's producers didn't show us much about the Wraith.
    I am just thinking it would be that way because otherwise it would be a bit tricky to get hybrids the natural way and then, we could assume about your original question that there can be no offspring other than maybe as an experiment
    I am thinking it is like with humans because Wraiths are not like insects and humanoid so it is quite possible that they can also reproduce that way...maybe they have more than one way of doing that....that is where imagination comes in
    Last edited by Az'ryel; July 17th, 2018 at 04:33 AM.

  6. #26
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Az'ryel View Post
    maybe they have more than one way of doing that....that is where imagination comes in
    True, the ways don't have to be mutually exclusive. There are good fanfics out there with variations of both (and even more ways).
    ~~~Stargate Wraith Mania Stargate Atlantis Wraith fan reference site~~~

  7. #27
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithTech View Post
    I don't want to join this part of the off-topic convo and only made this post because my name was mentioned and misquoted (not the first time that has happened, including in this thread).
    My apologies for mismentioning you, I am not using misquoting because I did not quote anything but rather gave a very general description of a comment I had thought you made.

    Best of luck with this topic.
    Last edited by Chaka-Z0; July 17th, 2018 at 08:21 AM.

  8. #28
    Lieutenant Colonel Az'ryel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithTech View Post
    True, the ways don't have to be mutually exclusive. There are good fanfics out there with variations of both (and even more ways).
    One could also write their own fan fic and see what comes out of that. I would find it interesting to read one about such a special child

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Az'ryel View Post
    One could also write their own fan fic and see what comes out of that. I would find it interesting to read one about such a special child
    I would like that too. There have been a lot of great plot bunnies in here. May they go forth and multiply.
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  10. #30
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    This was an interesting topic... What happened?

    edit. Come on, guys, we love this tv show. It is not worth of arguing with each other. Peace.
    Last edited by Platschu; August 24th, 2018 at 02:06 PM.
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  11. #31
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    By the way... I know it is a bit off here and maybe I have written down in other thread as well, but can it happen that some Ancient technologies are "fueled" by lifeforce? I mean... We have seen the alien technology in the 5x20 The Sentinel that it needed a human sacrifice. We have also seen that the Dakara weapon could have drained the lifeforce of Selmak. We also know that the Ancient can heal with touch, which is almost equal to giving back lifeforce / years by the Wraith. So I am pretty sure that some Ancients can drain this type of energy like vampires.

    Mini fan fictions (?) :

    1. I always wanted to see a human world in the Milky Way, where we would discover that they are undercover Wraith, who pretend to be humans. Maybe a Hive ship could reach the Milky Way. They can sleep for decades, so it can not be a problem to travel a few months in space. Because our high-tech ships can make the distance in 3 weeks, so even if the Wraith would be slowlier a few months or even a few years wouldn't matter for them and soon it or later they could have reached MW.

    2. A Goa'uld can also survive for centuries in a sarcophagus, so why has no Goa'uld ever tried to fly with a Ha'tak to an other galaxy? Maybe some renegate Goa'uld could settle down in the Pegasus galaxy...

    3. Not to mention what would happen if a Goa'uld could have a Wraith Queen as a host...

    I know that the writers wanted seperate two SG galaxies, so maybe that was the reason that such metaplots never happened.

    Back to the children questions. I don't know. The past of the Pegasus galaxy is full of plotholes. We don't know how the "normal" humans showed up there. Has anyone brought taken humans there? Maybe the Giant aliens with an other Chrystal skull? Or the Vanir for expirement? Because if no Earth (or MW) related humans were brought there by ships, then it means that all human worlds are descendants of the Ancients. I doubt that the Ancients would have travelled with "second rate" humans together, so all of them must have been pure Ancients. But then it also means that all of them must hve had the ATA genes. Why would they discriminate their own kind that somebody can have the ATA genes and somebody hasnt. So everybody has got Ancients anchestors, so every human must have got the ATA genes in the Pegasus galaxy, if you follow my logic.

    I don't remember the exact details regarding the past of the Wraith. I would strongly support this "Iratus bug accident" type of explanations. But anyway... however they have been created in the story, their Wraith skills can be inherited. If they could father common children with humans, then the ATA and the Wraith genes must have been mixed. That was the whole hybrid storyline in season 4-5 as Michael made a "new" race to combining the two existing one. So maybe the Wraith had a different origin as a race, I don't know. Because if the humans could hve children with the Wraith, then this genetic merge could have happened long time ago spontaneously.

    It would have been interesting to see if the Wraith can feed on hybrids or not. I don't remember the story, I should rewatch the SG:A episodes. Or would the hybrids be closer to humans/Ancients? It is a shame that they have never developed this story a bit further.

    It could have been a nice surprise that Teyla and the Athosians were Wraith since the beginning who were turned into humans with limited memories. Then Halling is actually Todd.... Or if only Halling could have been a Wraith, who infiltrated the Athosians as a human.... Don't worry, I am just joking, but it would have been a really dark plot twist.

    I also imagined Todd as he is living on Earth, but he is using a "human hologram" from the foothold aliens to cover his look. It would be funny to see C. Heyerdahl to play both character as on and off Wraith.
    Last edited by Platschu; August 24th, 2018 at 03:06 PM.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


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  12. #32
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    This was an interesting topic... What happened?

    edit. Come on, guys, we love this tv show. It is not worth of arguing with each other. Peace.
    In post #5, Chaka rolled your quote into a reply to me, erasing your name, making it look as if I wrote your post.
    In post #8, Chaka gave me a caustic reply to your fanfic idea, as if your fanfic idea was mine.
    In post #22, Chaka misattributed someone else’s idea of “normal Wraith” to me. I’m guessing that idea was also yours?

    This pattern is unacceptable and these examples are only ones from just this one thread. If Chaka has something to say to you, it can be done without going through me. Leave me out of it.

    There were also two supposed apologies in here, but it keeps happening, including in another thread dated after this one. If one is truly sorry, don't apologize-- stop doing it!

    Also, this is a thread about children, not which characters matters dies or not, so I will call Chaka out on that too. That is off-topic thread derailment and just plain inconsiderate of fans of those characters:
    https://forum.gateworld.net/threads/...1#post11839284

    I started this thread in good faith to celebrate all character races, but had it used as a go-between for snide comments aimed at myself and others and derailed with off-topic talk of death not mattering aimed at character classes. Not cool.


    I am calling this out so others on this forum can be aware and look out for these patterns too.



    By the way, for people who care about this topic, as I do, it seems the SGC site might have more mods at the moment and this theme was picked up over there, with links to fanfics about Torren and mention of Bug Shep (who may have also had both the ATA gene and Iratus bug DNA at the same time).
    https://www.stargatecommand.co/forum...tml&k=d37d5f82
    Last edited by WraithTech; August 24th, 2018 at 07:51 PM.
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  13. #33
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Maybe he has done it without any wrong intention. This quote system can be a bit confusing. We have banned the chain-qoutes in our Hungarian SG forum, so max. 1 quote could be included. It was a better way to read the comments easier instead of skipping the repeated parts again and again.

    We still need a story about Wraith childrens. A race can not survive without babies and children. I know maybe it is not the most exciting subject, but even our "enemies" has got family and that is what the writers forget quite frequently. Not just here, but in so many other fiction. For example: they introduce a new "race", what is technically only a small group, maybe a family. But then what? How would they procreate if there are no other similar families? What will happen with their children when the parents die? Will they die lonely? So what I wanted to say that if somebody, somewhere, somehow introduce a new race on a planet in a scifi, then they have to plan the past and the future of that race. Not just randomly throw them in as they look cool or they are really evil etc.

    So back to the original question. If there are no Wraith children, then their number would always decrease with wars. On the other hand, if they have got got Wraith children, then what decide which Wraith hive is more successful? I mean the isolasonist hive, who just feeds occasionally? Or the nonstoply expanding one? Or that hive which considers the humans as allies? How can a Queen's personality and decisions influence the future of her hive? So which way of "living" will be genetically more positive for the Wraith if we look into the future? They have evolved for thousand years, but such little attitude or cultural changes can really make a little group of Wraith successfull or easily vulnerable.

    I was thinking about such evolutionary biology when I am watching the Stargate (or other shows). Stargate is a good concept to bring races together, to skip the distance between culture, but on the hand it can be a catalyst of destroying of civilizations. It could be nice to talk about such moral questions as it could split even the Ancients up into different philosophical fractions.
    Last edited by Platschu; August 25th, 2018 at 11:15 AM.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  14. #34
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Platschu, I agree with what all you said about the Stargate show, but can't comment further due I am through being used as a go-between between. You asked why this thread died off and I answered with concrete examples, including where it was acknowledged this pattern was condescending-- and still keeps happening over and over.
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  15. #35
    Probie Jay Halstead's Avatar
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    By the way... I know it is a bit off here and maybe I have written down in other thread as well, but can it happen that some Ancient technologies are "fueled" by lifeforce? I mean... We have seen the alien technology in the 5x20 The Sentinel that it needed a human sacrifice. We have also seen that the Dakara weapon could have drained the lifeforce of Selmak. We also know that the Ancient can heal with touch, which is almost equal to giving back lifeforce / years by the Wraith. So I am pretty sure that some Ancients can drain this type of energy like vampires.

    Mini fan fictions (?) :

    1. I always wanted to see a human world in the Milky Way, where we would discover that they are undercover Wraith, who pretend to be humans. Maybe a Hive ship could reach the Milky Way. They can sleep for decades, so it can not be a problem to travel a few months in space. Because our high-tech ships can make the distance in 3 weeks, so even if the Wraith would be slowlier a few months or even a few years wouldn't matter for them and soon it or later they could have reached MW.

    2. A Goa'uld can also survive for centuries in a sarcophagus, so why has no Goa'uld ever tried to fly with a Ha'tak to an other galaxy? Maybe some renegate Goa'uld could settle down in the Pegasus galaxy...

    3. Not to mention what would happen if a Goa'uld could have a Wraith Queen as a host...

    I know that the writers wanted seperate two SG galaxies, so maybe that was the reason that such metaplots never happened.

    Back to the children questions. I don't know. The past of the Pegasus galaxy is full of plotholes. We don't know how the "normal" humans showed up there. Has anyone brought taken humans there? Maybe the Giant aliens with an other Chrystal skull? Or the Vanir for expirement? Because if no Earth (or MW) related humans were brought there by ships, then it means that all human worlds are descendants of the Ancients. I doubt that the Ancients would have travelled with "second rate" humans together, so all of them must have been pure Ancients. But then it also means that all of them must hve had the ATA genes. Why would they discriminate their own kind that somebody can have the ATA genes and somebody hasnt. So everybody has got Ancients anchestors, so every human must have got the ATA genes in the Pegasus galaxy, if you follow my logic.

    I don't remember the exact details regarding the past of the Wraith. I would strongly support this "Iratus bug accident" type of explanations. But anyway... however they have been created in the story, their Wraith skills can be inherited. If they could father common children with humans, then the ATA and the Wraith genes must have been mixed. That was the whole hybrid storyline in season 4-5 as Michael made a "new" race to combining the two existing one. So maybe the Wraith had a different origin as a race, I don't know. Because if the humans could hve children with the Wraith, then this genetic merge could have happened long time ago spontaneously.

    It would have been interesting to see if the Wraith can feed on hybrids or not. I don't remember the story, I should rewatch the SG:A episodes. Or would the hybrids be closer to humans/Ancients? It is a shame that they have never developed this story a bit further.

    It could have been a nice surprise that Teyla and the Athosians were Wraith since the beginning who were turned into humans with limited memories. Then Halling is actually Todd.... Or if only Halling could have been a Wraith, who infiltrated the Athosians as a human.... Don't worry, I am just joking, but it would have been a really dark plot twist.

    I also imagined Todd as he is living on Earth, but he is using a "human hologram" from the foothold aliens to cover his look. It would be funny to see C. Heyerdahl to play both character as on and off Wraith.

    2. I've actually been pondering this myself the last couple of days. Currently working on some ideas for an Atlantis fic, and this popped into my head and I started wondering about this. It takes 3 weeks to travel from Earth to Atlantis via the Daedalus (before the midway station was built), so surely it could be possible for the Goa'uld to have traveled or at least tried to travel to the Pegasus galaxy and possibly others.


    In regards to genetics and stuff, and slightly related. If Sam had had children, would they have been born with traces of Naqadah (sorry my spelling is probably off right now) in their blood, or would they not have inherited that. I'm assuming that because Sam has it in her blood she's unable to take the ATA gene therapy. Although it's never really been mentioned. Also asking for fic purposes.

  16. #36

    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    In the show they constantly refer to the ATA gene, in singular rather then plural. So it's safe to say it's a single gene rather then a combination of genes. The wraithkin on the other hand are mentioned having 'wraith DNA' which to me suggests that wraith genes comprise a percentage of their whole genome, or in other words a combination of many different Wraith genes. So if a Wraithkin who also has Ancient ancestry that has a specific Wraith gene that combined with the ATA, the ATA will probably be recessive and so it won't be expressed. They'd even be at a disadvantage when compared to most humans, because Beckett's therapy would have even less of a chance to work on them. It would be not unlike how the gene for blue eyes is recessive compared to the gene for brown eyes. I think it might still be possible to get both abilities if the individual Wraithkin doesn't have a gene that's suppressing the ATA. It's probably still a crap shoot since most humans, don't have the ATA or otherwise have other genes that are probably dominant over it. So this 'wonder child' also has to run the gantlet against their parents human genes.
    Last edited by Ohmy Desalad; November 20th, 2019 at 01:35 AM.

  17. #37
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    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Halstead View Post
    2. I've actually been pondering this myself the last couple of days. Currently working on some ideas for an Atlantis fic, and this popped into my head and I started wondering about this. It takes 3 weeks to travel from Earth to Atlantis via the Daedalus (before the midway station was built), so surely it could be possible for the Goa'uld to have traveled or at least tried to travel to the Pegasus galaxy and possibly others.
    That's with Asgard hyperdrives. Goa'uld motherships prior to the end of the season 1 finale could only go 10 times the speed of light:

    CARTER: Teal'c, how fast can this ship go?

    TEAL'C: The Goa'uld Ha'tak vessel can travel at 10 times the speed of light.

    CARTER: Okay, if we are heading to Earth, then we have along time.

    O'NEILL: Based on what?

    CARTER: Based on the coordinates of the planets we gated to.

    O'NEILL: We didn't gate to a plant, we gated to a ship!

    CARTER: But that ship had to be in orbit around, or on the surface of a planet, in order for those gate coordinates to work. So based on the location of those coordinates, even if we were traveling at 10 times the speed of light, it would take at least a year to get to Earth. Probably more.


    This is a large part of the reason why the Goa'uld abandoned so many planets after human rebellions. Why send ships on missions that kept them occupied for years when you could simply gate to a new world and seed a new population of slaves there? You basically have to wipe out a good chunk, if not all, of the existing population on a rebellious world anyway, and by doing this you're removing ships from defensive/offensive positions, so you're making yourself a weaker/more appealing target for your enemies in order to reclaim a world that may not be worth the effort.

    The big reveal at the end of the episode was that in the year since Teal'c left, the Goa'uld figured out how to significantly upgrade their hyperdrive engines...

    JACKSON: I thought you said we couldn't be there for at least a year. Jack gets up and walks beside Danny.

    CARTER: I guess this ship can go way faster then 10 times the speed of light. Colonel, we saw the Death gliders. They're preparing for launch, sir.


    Also be mindful that when Apophis lost those two ships it severely weakened his position among the other Goa'uld, while later in the series we are made aware of there being hundreds of motherships spread throughout the Milky Way with individual system lords commanding fleets large enough for them to shrug off the loss of one, two, or even a handful of motherships. This suggests that they may have engaged in a significant ship building effort in the early seasons of Sg-1. It makes sense that they would do that following the development of faster hyperdrives as that would have made ships a viable alternative to gate travel for the first time in Goa'uld history.

    Given all this, it would have been horribly painstaking and resource heavy to try to send ships to other galaxies prior to the events of Sg-1. The Pegasus galaxy is three million light years away. At 10 times the speed of light, that would have taken the Goa'uld not hundreds of years, but hundreds of thousands. The Goa'uld lack an ability to preserve a living being for that long so we're talking about an automated mission, and, even if the ship could remain functional after 300,000 years on its own, there's then the very long wait period for the hope of any sort of return message. Further, if Goa'uld motherships were faster than the smaller Goa'uld craft (which makes sense), that means they would either have to send a smaller ship on a much longer mission or give up what was a very valuable resource before they went on a building spree.

    Our real world prospects for sending a probe 4.3 light years to the nearest solar system are not that bad and we still haven't done it yet. With current technologies it's likely to take tens of thousands of years for any craft to reach Alpha Centauri. The exact time frame depends on how much we spend, but no matter how much money we pour into it, new technologies are going to emerge in the next decades, never mind tens of thousands of years, that will significantly shorten travel time, so it's a complete waste of time, resources, and money to try to send probes now because they'll be beaten to Alpha Centauri by probes we develop in the intervening years.

    Same with the Goa'uld. Per "Exodius," it would have taken them 125 years to travel 4 million light years in a Goa'uld mothership, but that was at maximum hyperdrive speed, which likely isn't something that they could have maintained for the whole journey. Thus, with their post season 1 hyperdrive capabilities, it's a 94 year trip to Pegasus at max speed, but realistically it's probably a 100-300 year journey. This means if they launched today they'd beat any ship sent out there prior to season 1 by... still hundreds of thousands of years. Even the Goa'uld would have had the foresight to realize it's better to devote resources to trying to develop faster travel than to send out ships on impossibly long journeys into the unknown.

    As for launching today. Again, they know that better technology exists. If you're a Goa'uld would you lock yourself away in a sarcophagus for possibly hundreds of years without any knowledge of if you will make it to your destination and, if you did, whether there would be anything there for you to establish what you desire (a base of power) or, if there is, whether you'd have the resources on hand to conquer and/or carve out a sphere of influence?

    Even if you're one of the Goa'uld who knows about Pegasus and you're leaving the Milky Way for the express purpose of trying to get there, you're likely to need a lot of ships to contend with whatever is there ~100 years from now. Certainly more than the lesser Goa'uld in hiding today can martial. You'd probably need the entire resources of a system lord (or two) prior to their fall, but no system lord would give up their power for a long sojourn to Pegasus. Especially when they know that the technology to get there in days, weeks, or months is out there waiting to be discovered or reinvented. Hell, for all they know, by the time they get there, the Goa'uld will have already conquered the whole galaxy and advanced their technology to such a level that this explorer Goa'uld's own antiquated ships wouldn't stand a fraction of a chance in battle.

    For your fan fiction, rather than sending Goa'uld into the dark of space for such long periods, what I'd suggest is that you use the gate. If a Goa'uld found a ZPM and learned how to dial Pegasus with it, he or she likely would have sent some Jaffa through as scouts. Teal'c explained that it was standard procedure to send Jaffa scouts and write off a world as too dangerous/inaccessible if they didn't return (that appears to be what happened with Apophis' serpent guards who came through the Beta gate and died in Antarctica).

    This hypothetical Goa'uld may have had reason to believe his Jaffa would have found a way to establish a connection back, but when that very obviously didn't happen, you'd have Jaffa potentially mingling with Pegasus humans who their larvae could take as hosts when they mature. There would be no system lords to stop them from doing this as is usually the case in the Milky Way (the Goa'uld kill most of their offspring before they are mature enough to take a host to limit the competition), but these Goa'uld would also have limited resources and likely no access to a Queen.

    Consequently, you'd have a small population of Goa'uld trapped in the Pegasus galaxy who would have to work to try to gain power and resources, all while trying to remain under the Wraith's radar. By the time your story starts, they may, for example, have a small fiefdom and access to middling technology that they stole/recovered from the Wraith, Ancients, and advanced human inhabitants of the galaxy, or they may have access to some very powerful Ancient hardware (along with ATA humans or a workaround to the ATA gene lockout) and be about to enter the galactic stage with a very big splash.

    Alternatively, maybe a rogue Wraith scientist found and have been experimenting on them or the Goa'uld have started trying to infiltrate the Wraith. Also don't forget that cloning can be used to create more larvae Goa'uld, which can in turn be used to create Jaffa in Pegasus.

    In regards to genetics and stuff, and slightly related. If Sam had had children, would they have been born with traces of Naqadah (sorry my spelling is probably off right now) in their blood, or would they not have inherited that. I'm assuming that because Sam has it in her blood she's unable to take the ATA gene therapy. Although it's never really been mentioned. Also asking for fic purposes.
    Lead poisoning (for example) can be passed to a child, either while in the womb or through breast milk, so I see no reason why the same also wouldn't be true of naquadah. On the other hand, I doubt naquadah in one's blood stream would block any sort of gene therapy.
    Last edited by Xaeden; November 22nd, 2019 at 07:03 PM.

  18. #38
    Probie Jay Halstead's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2019
    Posts
    18

    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    That's with Asgard hyperdrives. Goa'uld motherships prior to the end of the season 1 finale could only go 10 times the speed of light:

    CARTER: Teal'c, how fast can this ship go?

    TEAL'C: The Goa'uld Ha'tak vessel can travel at 10 times the speed of light.

    CARTER: Okay, if we are heading to Earth, then we have along time.

    O'NEILL: Based on what?

    CARTER: Based on the coordinates of the planets we gated to.

    O'NEILL: We didn't gate to a plant, we gated to a ship!

    CARTER: But that ship had to be in orbit around, or on the surface of a planet, in order for those gate coordinates to work. So based on the location of those coordinates, even if we were traveling at 10 times the speed of light, it would take at least a year to get to Earth. Probably more.


    This is a large part of the reason why the Goa'uld abandoned so many planets after human rebellions. Why send ships on missions that kept them occupied for years when you could simply gate to a new world and seed a new population of slaves there? You basically have to wipe out a good chunk, if not all, of the existing population on a rebellious world anyway, and by doing this you're removing ships from defensive/offensive positions, so you're making yourself a weaker/more appealing target for your enemies in order to reclaim a world that may not be worth the effort.

    The big reveal at the end of the episode was that in the year since Teal'c left, the Goa'uld figured out how to significantly upgrade their hyperdrive engines...

    JACKSON: I thought you said we couldn't be there for at least a year. Jack gets up and walks beside Danny.

    CARTER: I guess this ship can go way faster then 10 times the speed of light. Colonel, we saw the Death gliders. They're preparing for launch, sir.


    Also be mindful that when Apophis lost those two ships it severely weakened his position among the other Goa'uld, while later in the series we are made aware of there being hundreds of motherships spread throughout the Milky Way with individual system lords commanding fleets large enough for them to shrug off the loss of one, two, or even a handful of motherships. This suggests that they may have engaged in a significant ship building effort in the early seasons of Sg-1. It makes sense that they would do that following the development of faster hyperdrives as that would have made ships a viable alternative to gate travel for the first time in Goa'uld history.

    Given all this, it would have been horribly painstaking and resource heavy to try to send ships to other galaxies prior to the events of Sg-1. The Pegasus galaxy is three million light years away. At 10 times the speed of light, that would have taken the Goa'uld not hundreds of years, but hundreds of thousands. The Goa'uld lack an ability to preserve a living being for that long so we're talking about an automated mission, and, even if the ship could remain functional after 300,000 years on its own, there's then the very long wait period for the hope of any sort of return message. Further, if Goa'uld motherships were faster than the smaller Goa'uld craft (which makes sense), that means they would either have to send a smaller ship on a much longer mission or give up what was a very valuable resource before they went on a building spree.

    Our real world prospects for sending a probe 4.3 light years to the nearest solar system are not that bad and we still haven't done it yet. With current technologies it's likely to take tens of thousands of years for any craft to reach Alpha Centauri. The exact time frame depends on how much we spend, but no matter how much money we pour into it, new technologies are going to emerge in the next decades, never mind tens of thousands of years, that will significantly shorten travel time, so it's a complete waste of time, resources, and money to try to send probes now because they'll be beaten to Alpha Centauri by probes we develop in the intervening years.

    Same with the Goa'uld. Per "Exodius," it would have taken them 125 years to travel 4 million light years in a Goa'uld mothership, but that was at maximum hyperdrive speed, which likely isn't something that they could have maintained for the whole journey. Thus, with their post season 1 hyperdrive capabilities, it's a 94 year trip to Pegasus at max speed, but realistically it's probably a 100-300 year journey. This means if they launched today they'd beat any ship sent out there prior to season 1 by... still hundreds of thousands of years. Even the Goa'uld would have had the foresight to realize it's better to devote resources to trying to develop faster travel than to send out ships on impossibly long journeys into the unknown.

    As for launching today. Again, they know that better technology exists. If you're a Goa'uld would you lock yourself away in a sarcophagus for possibly hundreds of years without any knowledge of if you will make it to your destination and, if you did, whether there would be anything there for you to establish what you desire (a base of power) or, if there is, whether you'd have the resources on hand to conquer and/or carve out a sphere of influence?

    Even if you're one of the Goa'uld who knows about Pegasus and you're leaving the Milky Way for the express purpose of trying to get there, you're likely to need a lot of ships to contend with whatever is there ~100 years from now. Certainly more than the lesser Goa'uld in hiding today can martial. You'd probably need the entire resources of a system lord (or two) prior to their fall, but no system lord would give up their power for a long sojourn to Pegasus. Especially when they know that the technology to get there in days, weeks, or months is out there waiting to be discovered or reinvented. Hell, for all they know, by the time they get there, the Goa'uld will have already conquered the whole galaxy and advanced their technology to such a level that this explorer Goa'uld's own antiquated ships wouldn't stand a fraction of a chance in battle.

    For your fan fiction, rather than sending Goa'uld into the dark of space for such long periods, what I'd suggest is that you use the gate. If a Goa'uld found a ZPM and learned how to dial Pegasus with it, he or she likely would have sent some Jaffa through as scouts. Teal'c explained that it was standard procedure to send Jaffa scouts and write off a world as too dangerous/inaccessible if they didn't return (that appears to be what happened with Apophis' serpent guards who came through the Beta gate and died in Antarctica).

    This hypothetical Goa'uld may have had reason to believe his Jaffa would have found a way to establish a connection back, but when that very obviously didn't happen, you'd have Jaffa potentially mingling with Pegasus humans who their larvae could take as hosts when they mature. There would be no system lords to stop them from doing this as is usually the case in the Milky Way (the Goa'uld kill most of their offspring before they are mature enough to take a host to limit the competition), but these Goa'uld would also have limited resources and likely no access to a Queen.

    Consequently, you'd have a small population of Goa'uld trapped in the Pegasus galaxy who would have to work to try to gain power and resources, all while trying to remain under the Wraith's radar. By the time your story starts, they may, for example, have a small fiefdom and access to middling technology that they stole/recovered from the Wraith, Ancients, and advanced human inhabitants of the galaxy, or they may have access to some very powerful Ancient hardware (along with ATA humans or a workaround to the ATA gene lockout) and be about to enter the galactic stage with a very big splash.

    Alternatively, maybe a rogue Wraith scientist found and have been experimenting on them or the Goa'uld have started trying to infiltrate the Wraith. Also don't forget that cloning can be used to create more larvae Goa'uld, which can in turn be used to create Jaffa in Pegasus.



    Lead poisoning (for example) can be passed to a child, either while in the womb or through breast milk, so I see no reason why the same also wouldn't be true of naquadah. On the other hand, I doubt naquadah in one's blood stream would block any sort of gene therapy.
    Ooh wow, a very informative post.

    I'd forgotten about the Asgard hyperdrive so yeah you're right about it taking them longer without that. You've definitely given me some things to think about, I'm probably going to have to tweak some things, and at this stage it's just ideas. But I still really want to write a story where they discover a Goa'uld presence in the Pegasus galaxy. I'm currently doing a rewatch of Stargate SG.1 and I'm on S2 at the moment. And there was an episode (S1 I think, or is it S2) Thor's Hammer (I think it's called) where Teal'c and Jack are transported to those caves by the hammer and trapped there, and after they destroy a part of it to get Teal'c out the Goa'uld are later able to come to the planet and attack them.

    Using the gate would probably the better option, but then they wouldn't really be able to build their ships or bases would they.....I dunno. But it has been mentioned previously that they steal technology. If they knew about Atlantis before, wouldn't they want to steal it....or try to.

    I'm sure I can come up with a way to incorperate them somehow though.

    As for the genetic bit, thanks for that. I wasn't sure if it was enough to block it or not.

  19. #39
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Oct 2007
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    1,185

    Default Re: Human Offspring from Parents of Both Ancient and Wraith Heritage

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay Halstead View Post
    Using the gate would probably the better option, but then they wouldn't really be able to build their ships or bases would they.....I dunno. But it has been mentioned previously that they steal technology.
    Yeah, depending on how long they've been there, they could have stolen enough technology by now to have built up some sort of infrastructure, and they would still have all their existing knowledge because of how their genetic memory works. If you want to work that into your story, I'd suggest rewatching "Absolute Power" (season 4, episode 17) where Daniel is able to access thousands of years of Goa'uld memory to advance earth technology (in a hypothetical scenario).

    If they knew about Atlantis before, wouldn't they want to steal it....or try to.
    Presumably, they wouldn't have any reason to think it wasn't destroyed. Unless the Goa'uld in your story gained full access to an ancient database in the Milky Way, they wouldn't have known about it until arriving in Pegasus, and at that point everything they heard about it would've been about how it was lost at the conclusion of the war because that's what the Wraith believed. Even if they did have reason to suspect it was still around, they wouldn't have had any way to get to it before the Tauri arrived. If they did find it at the bottom of the ocean, they couldn't get passed its shields, and they couldn't gate to it because Janus made it so that that the gate was only accessible if you were dialing from earth.

    It might be fun to play with the idea that they found and took control of another city ship somewhere in the galaxy, though.
    Last edited by Xaeden; November 24th, 2019 at 12:51 PM.

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