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  1. #1
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Was Jonas underrated?

    So I'm almost done with Season 5 of my rewatch and...

    I recall the first time I watched SG1 and how disappointed I was when Daniel died/ascended/actor crisis and always thought of Jonas as a filler / bench-warmer more than anything else.

    Now, as the years went by and the countless rewatch of SG1 stacking up, I find myself looking at Jonas under a new perspective. I think he was a great character, thoroughly misused and discarded way too soon.

    I definitely would trade Browder / Claudia for one Jonas in a heartbeat.

    What do you guys think? Team Jonas or Team Daniel?

  2. #2
    Harvey jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    Was Jonas underrated

    Yes. They abandoned all these great stories about him after Shanks was done with his whinnying
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  3. #3
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    I liked him and he was in 25 episodes all together, so he will always be a major character in the SG world. He had so much potential and I believe he could be brought back in a new spin-off or tv movie if Corin would like to return. I was a bit disappointed that he was not involved in Universe when they made the crossover episode.
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  4. #4
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Now, as the years went by and the countless rewatch of SG1 stacking up, I find myself looking at Jonas under a new perspective. I think he was a great character, thoroughly misused and discarded way too soon.
    I think this was mostly it. Jonas could've been so much more.

  5. #5
    Captain Looney's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    I completely agree that Jonas was a great character and from midway through the original Season 6 run I thought he was a great addition. I feel that SG-1's biggest mistake was the concept of "Ascension". Their second biggest mistake was bringing Daniel back from "Ascension". I have no personal animosity toward Shanks, but this is where the show started to go downhill for me. Jonas was a good character and the show could have gone in a direction away from the "Ascension" theme with him. Jonas was the perfect opportunity to turn the overall arc back on a good track with a new character to add new dynamics. Instead they chose to double down on "Ascension" and go back to a path that spiraled slowly downward from that point on. I mean very slowly because it wasn't like the show got immediately bad or anything, but, in my opinion, the show slowly and steadily headed the wrong direction by increasing plots that dealt with "Ascended" beings until we were stuck with the Ori.

    Having said all of that it unfortunately boils down to the fact it was a TV show, so Jonas wasn't going to make it if they felt the ratings were better with Daniel. It is a real shame. I was sad when Shanks left, but I also liked that they came up with a way to get rid of him on the show. Whatever was going on with the actor aside, that was a good way to have the character leave the show and I was satisfied with it. It added a good measure of quality that they were willing to dispose of a main character. It looked like a very weak move to bring Daniel back. But like I said, it is a business and the ratings were better with Daniel than without him. I mean I know fans are fickle and they lost some viewers over losing Daniel, but they improved the quality of the show. Ultimately I feel the show was better with Jonas than with bringing Daniel back. Not that it was bad, but it was the beginning of the end as far as maintaining my interest in the overall arc. I still watched and still enjoyed many episodes after that, but my enthusiasm from week to week declined until we got to Season 10 when I was just watching to get to the end. That isn't true, I was also watching for any standalone episodes and I really liked seeing Claudia Black ham-it-up. But like I said, I feel they reached a turning point when Shanks left and then came back as far as the overall direction the arc could have gone. I feel they turned the wrong way and maybe lost their way. I know there are fans who like where the story went with the Ori, but I am definitely not one of them.

    Of course going back in time would the show have stayed great if the whole Shanks issue had never come up? My guess is yes. Would they have focused on "Ascension" if they hadn't needed it as a tool to dispose of Daniel and then to ultimately bring him back? We'll never know, but I think the show could have been even better if no hiccup with Daniel had ever happened and/or they had introduced Jonas and stuck with him. What we got would have been option number three. Scratch that, option number eighty seven. (I really dislike the Ori plot. I fully recognize that the Goa'uld arc had gone a bit cold, but that was a mistake. They had so much to work with that they should have been able to make things interesting, but instead they got stuck on the "Ascension" track and kept coming back to it.)

  6. #6
    Reserve Player RedDevil's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Looney View Post
    I completely agree that Jonas was a great character and from midway through the original Season 6 run I thought he was a great addition. I feel that SG-1's biggest mistake was the concept of "Ascension". Their second biggest mistake was bringing Daniel back from "Ascension". I have no personal animosity toward Shanks, but this is where the show started to go downhill for me. Jonas was a good character and the show could have gone in a direction away from the "Ascension" theme with him. Jonas was the perfect opportunity to turn the overall arc back on a good track with a new character to add new dynamics. Instead they chose to double down on "Ascension" and go back to a path that spiraled slowly downward from that point on. I mean very slowly because it wasn't like the show got immediately bad or anything, but, in my opinion, the show slowly and steadily headed the wrong direction by increasing plots that dealt with "Ascended" beings until we were stuck with the Ori.
    Indeed, the "ascension" storyline shouldn't of happened in the first place, or at least it should of have ended after Shanks left the show, because it just didn't make that much sense to bring back character, that had already axed, though, I don't have any hard feelings towards them for doing that, as Daniel Jackson was one of my favorite characters in the show... But they still should of let the bygones be bygones, and drop the "ascension" storyline after his departure, or at least after he came back.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looney View Post
    Having said all of that it unfortunately boils down to the fact it was a TV show, so Jonas wasn't going to make it if they felt the ratings were better with Daniel. It is a real shame. I was sad when Shanks left, but I also liked that they came up with a way to get rid of him on the show. Whatever was going on with the actor aside, that was a good way to have the character leave the show and I was satisfied with it. It added a good measure of quality that they were willing to dispose of a main character. It looked like a very weak move to bring Daniel back. But like I said, it is a business and the ratings were better with Daniel than without him. I mean I know fans are fickle and they lost some viewers over losing Daniel, but they improved the quality of the show. Ultimately I feel the show was better with Jonas than with bringing Daniel back. Not that it was bad, but it was the beginning of the end as far as maintaining my interest in the overall arc. I still watched and still enjoyed many episodes after that, but my enthusiasm from week to week declined until we got to Season 10 when I was just watching to get to the end. That isn't true, I was also watching for any standalone episodes and I really liked seeing Claudia Black ham-it-up. But like I said, I feel they reached a turning point when Shanks left and then came back as far as the overall direction the arc could have gone. I feel they turned the wrong way and maybe lost their way. I know there are fans who like where the story went with the Ori, but I am definitely not one of them.
    Unfortunately yes, even though it meant, that they axed the Jonas Quinn storyline way too early, after Michael Shanks had agreed to new terms. What I personally feel is, that even though there were some odd good and even awesome episodes on later seasons, as a whole, there just were too many plot lines going on at the same time, which made it quite hard to follow.

    Quote Originally Posted by Looney View Post
    Of course going back in time would the show have stayed great if the whole Shanks issue had never come up? My guess is yes. Would they have focused on "Ascension" if they hadn't needed it as a tool to dispose of Daniel and then to ultimately bring him back? We'll never know, but I think the show could have been even better if no hiccup with Daniel had ever happened and/or they had introduced Jonas and stuck with him. What we got would have been option number three. Scratch that, option number eighty seven. (I really dislike the Ori plot. I fully recognize that the Goa'uld arc had gone a bit cold, but that was a mistake. They had so much to work with that they should have been able to make things interesting, but instead they got stuck on the "Ascension" track and kept coming back to it.)
    What I am going to write next, doesn't fully reply to all of this last part of your message, as it's more of a wider babble from my part, but here goes: Long story short, yes, Jonas was quite massively underrated. But like said, now after multiple re-watches (which I still need to do again) the character of Jonas Quinn did bring some new feel to the show, and by axing this, I feel, that they indeed doomed the show into slow decline, which tbh, got more speed to it after RDA left the show (yes, yes, he was still in few episodes on 2 last seasons, but it just wasn't the same anymore). Though I do not blame Ben Browder, Beau Bridges or Claudia Black from it, as the characters were at least somewhat interesting, while not the best either, imho. But the series was too far gone to be salvageable. The Ori storyline might of been what indeed ended up killing the show, as they felt too much of a "We need new threat to replace Goa'uld to get more out of the show", but they ended up creating something, that in the end didn't differ that much from goa'ulds, as the Ori, just like Goa'ulds posed as a gods. And somehow enslaved the people, that was worshiping them with far superior technology, than other species had.

    Well, this reply ended up being bit longer, than I meant it to be, but oh, well...



  7. #7
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    Jonas was fantastic. I would rather he had stayed, than Daniel return.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  8. #8
    Captain Looney's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by RedDevil View Post
    Indeed, the "ascension" storyline shouldn't of happened in the first place, or at least it should of have ended after Shanks left the show, because it just didn't make that much sense to bring back character, that had already axed, though, I don't have any hard feelings towards them for doing that, as Daniel Jackson was one of my favorite characters in the show... But they still should of let the bygones be bygones, and drop the "ascension" storyline after his departure, or at least after he came back.



    Unfortunately yes, even though it meant, that they axed the Jonas Quinn storyline way too early, after Michael Shanks had agreed to new terms. What I personally feel is, that even though there were some odd good and even awesome episodes on later seasons, as a whole, there just were too many plot lines going on at the same time, which made it quite hard to follow.



    What I am going to write next, doesn't fully reply to all of this last part of your message, as it's more of a wider babble from my part, but here goes: Long story short, yes, Jonas was quite massively underrated. But like said, now after multiple re-watches (which I still need to do again) the character of Jonas Quinn did bring some new feel to the show, and by axing this, I feel, that they indeed doomed the show into slow decline, which tbh, got more speed to it after RDA left the show (yes, yes, he was still in few episodes on 2 last seasons, but it just wasn't the same anymore). Though I do not blame Ben Browder, Beau Bridges or Claudia Black from it, as the characters were at least somewhat interesting, while not the best either, imho. But the series was too far gone to be salvageable. The Ori storyline might of been what indeed ended up killing the show, as they felt too much of a "We need new threat to replace Goa'uld to get more out of the show", but they ended up creating something, that in the end didn't differ that much from goa'ulds, as the Ori, just like Goa'ulds posed as a gods. And somehow enslaved the people, that was worshiping them with far superior technology, than other species had.
    Yes I agree and as far as the Ori go you know you made a mistake when you have to do an entire movie that undoes the corner you wrote yourself into with a magic box.

    And in case you haven't read my posts where I discuss how much I dislike time travel plots I will say that I really like Stargate Continuum (2008). Just putting that out there because it kind of sounded like I just bashed The Ark of Truth (2008). I actually love The Ark of Truth because it really was the only way to undo the Ori storyline - magic box that makes it all go away.


    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Jonas was fantastic. I would rather he had stayed, than Daniel return.
    Yes, like I said, the only thing better than Jonas coming on the show might be if Daniel never left. But I question even that because Jonas opened new avenues. SO probably best case scenario would be Daniel staying AND adding Jonas.

    And here is a brief summary of what SG-1 should have done on top of never going down the "ascension" hole. They should never have adopted the TV adage of trying to out do themselves. They should have slowed down the Goa'uld plots. They should have spaced them out and not made them so much of the focus. You know one semi-failing of Atlantis for me is what was done with The Genii. I thought the Genii represented a really great opportunity for a foe who wasn't the biggest threat, but was a real problem because they were running around doing their own thing. SG-1 could have used an enemy like The Genii giving them grief and Atlantis should have used them more often. Enemies like The Genii could have helped fill in gaps while really big Goa'uld stories were being fleshed out. Okay I am rambling.

  9. #9
    Chief Master Sergeant
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    i feel that stargate without gouuld is a mistake, i feel anubis was not a proper goauld and ruined the show a bit, and yes, i would have preffered more random god episodes who were various levels of good or bad with lots of minions sometimes, sometimes sorta doing thier own thing, stargate and the x files share alot of the same good points and bad points, the ori should have remained a background threat if at all a threat, simply having asceneded or unascended ancients who didnt agree with the lantian ancients was great enough, they perhaps didnt care to invade but simply sent a few people to feel out planets and offer them alliance, bring back the tolens through some plot device, perhaps they faked their demise and had a clever plan to hide deep in the planets core where they used a second locked down stargate to get out one way only, they did have the technology to phase shift, makes sense they could do it, and faked their deaths to avoid gould and terrans... i mean tarii, and they basically become the true fifth race while earth is still dealing with thier own issues, they were on the path to it etc...

    then you can have the asgard fake thier death, use the planet explosion to create a new issue with a whole new range of interdimensional beings who were basically gouuld too, nothing big just a few episodes, and you basically have stargate turning into gouulds vs humans wiht two or three factions of ancients all with diverse points of view and very bizare but predictable to a degree behavior

    i felt that jonas was .... i was upset with the planets behavior and i really did like shanks self sacrifice, but the planet had the worst politicians leading them, more could have been done with that actually, where they had a counter sg1 series with huge military patrols on various worlds sg1 always had to kill or get rid off until finally blockading thier world from useing a stargate... i also liked the tokra queen episode and was sad about that i was like.... awe :/ such a waste of great potential to have a good gouuld queen i also sort of was upset about how they wasted the potential to have the tokra queen and hathor having a long feud with thier offspring and progeny being used for quite a few episodes, hathor would have been a great several season background filler for episodes etc

  10. #10

    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    yes Jonas was very under-rated and under-appreciated, don't get me wrong I like Daniel, but I grew fond of Jonas almost instantly, he was a great character and a great asset to the team who had a lot of potential, I ended up liking him just as much as Daniel in the short time he was on the show. I would gladly swap both Mitchell & Vala out for Jonas to come back in a heartbeat!

  11. #11
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    I have no idea if there's anything to it, but just from what we saw on screen I kind of got the impression that perhaps Corin Nemec and RDA didn't get on very well. At the start I figured it was just the characters--Jack resenting Jonas over what happened with Daniel--but if you watch them over the course of Season 6 and Corin's handful of episodes in Season 7, even after the relationship is mended, they rarely share much screen time, and when they do, Jack/RDA is consistently dismissive of him and looking like he can't wait for the scene to be over.

    Again, it could be nothing at all, it's just a vibe I get while watching the show.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  12. #12

    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    That's interesting, I never noticed that...perhaps I should pay closer attention to their interactions and body language when I re-watch S6 next time and see if I notice any sort of tension between them.

    O'Neill didn't like Jonas at first and it took a while for him to accept Jonas on the team but I always thought it was only because O'Neill blamed Jonas for what happened to Daniel like it was portrayed in this season...it never crossed my mind that maybe there was some tension between the actors behind the scenes too.

  13. #13
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    I have no idea if there's anything to it, but just from what we saw on screen I kind of got the impression that perhaps Corin Nemec and RDA didn't get on very well. At the start I figured it was just the characters--Jack resenting Jonas over what happened with Daniel--but if you watch them over the course of Season 6 and Corin's handful of episodes in Season 7, even after the relationship is mended, they rarely share much screen time, and when they do, Jack/RDA is consistently dismissive of him and looking like he can't wait for the scene to be over.

    Again, it could be nothing at all, it's just a vibe I get while watching the show.
    To be fair that could be just RDA missing Shanks. Honestly even though we don’t see the interact much I thought RDA and Nemec had great chemistry on screen. Not as good as him and Shanks but there was a quality there and I think any sour note RDA was feeling added a lot to their characters relationship. O’Neill never seemingly thought of Jonas as a friend and had even less patience for his ramblings than Daniel’s but he learned to trust him enough that when Jonas had something to say he listened. One of my favourite scenes in all of Stargate is when they encounter that crashed ship of prisoners and at the end Jonas gets taken hostage and just subtlety waves o’neill Off from shooting because he already had a plan in place.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    I hope you're right...it would be disappointing if there were any tension between the actors off-screen...

  15. #15
    Captain Looney's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by LindaL100 View Post
    I hope you're right...it would be disappointing if there were any tension between the actors off-screen...
    Yeah this is definitely one of those instances where finding out too much behind the scenes stuff could be a bad thing. I definitely wouldn't want to know that they did not get along. When you have characters you love you don't want to hear that things were bad between the actors off camera.

  16. #16
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    Will emphasize again that I was speculating based on the feel I got while watching. I know nothing more than anyone else here!
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  17. #17
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Will emphasize again that I was speculating based on the feel I got while watching. I know nothing more than anyone else here!
    I would add that suposedly, if the rumors were true, Judge didn't get along very well with RDA neither. Perhaps a more astute fan could confirm that.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  18. #18
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    They are actors and they are professionals. RDA used to be even a producer (as part of the Gekko Production), so I doubt that any personal feelings could be seen onscreen. We don't know what happened in the background, you know when an actor or actress were too demanding, too much diva behaviour, too much salary deals. But such things can never be seen on a tv show, I believe. If the writers (and producers) don't like someone then he or she was dismissed quickly. Such changes started to ruin SG:A later too.

    Back to Jonas. I still believe he could have been moved to Atlantis instead of "Ford" or to Universe. He could have been a great connection to SG-1. But MS was more popular at that time, so the producers believed MS can drain more viewers, so I believe that was the reason why Corin Nemec was written out so quickly. It is sad, but it is only about business and not what the fans want or imagine.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


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  19. #19
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    Back to Jonas. I still believe he could have been moved to Atlantis instead of "Ford" or to Universe.
    Mb he got tired of being friendzoned by the producers.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  20. #20
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Was Jonas underrated?

    I remember hearing that at one point he was supposed to transition from from SG-1 when it ended with Season 6, to Atlantis when it premiered the next fall. No idea whether there's any truth to that though.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

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