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  1. #1
    Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    I have just checked this wikipedia website. I became so excited that finally I have found some informations about such races and planets which were never named in the tv shows. Then I started to worry that Stargate:Worlds, Stargate:Infinity and all the other SG-1/Atlantis books, comics and mobil games are not part of the official canon. Or are they? Because earlier they stated that only Stargate : Infinity is not part of the BW established canon, so all the other infos are official from other SG resources?

    Fox example:

    Blue crystal aliens from SG-1 1x06 Cold Lazarus are called as UNITY :
    http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Unity

    Underwater aliens from SG-1 1x13 Fire and Water are called as OANNES (OHNE):
    http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Ohne

    Orb aliens from SG-1 2x07 Message in a bottle are called as A'T'TRR:
    http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/A%27t%27trr

    Foothold aliens from SG-1 3x14 Foothold are called as STRAGOTH:
    http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Stragoth

    Crystal skull aliens from SG-1 3x21 Chrystal skull are called as OMEYOCAN:
    http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Omeyocan

    There are lots of smaller Goa'uld here too :
    http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Category:Goa%27uld

    Humans from SG-1 2x04 The Gamekeeper are called as VOLSINII:
    http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Volsinii

    Maybe I am the only one who noticed these so lately, but anyway it is good that finally we can call them somehow. I also enjoyed the small little stories about the first 3 seasons (like minor Goa'ulds and Tok'Ras were introduced), so the whole SG world looks more complex now.
    Last edited by Platschu; March 18th, 2018 at 11:13 AM.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

  2. #2
    Hank Landry
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    This passage struck me as funny (bold added for emphasis): "The unpublished Fallout: Stargate Season Three sourcebook for the Stargate SG-1 Roleplaying Game developed by Alderac Entertainment Group named the giant aliens as the Tuohocan[1], though this was later overruled by the Stargate SG-1: City of the Gods novel, produced by Fandemonium, which named them the Omeyocan."

    Who says what tie-in overrules another? Are there little charts and graphs somewhere? What about the American Mythology SGA season 6 comics vs the Fandemonium SGA season 6 stuff? Will someone put them in a room and let them battle it out for which overrules the other? (I don't call any of the tie-ins canon, but find these levels and "overruling" ideas mildly interesting.)
    Last edited by WraithTech; March 18th, 2018 at 11:21 AM.

  3. #3
    John Diggle DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    The Stargate Wikia treats non-canon material (books, comics, RPG, etc) with equal weight to actual canon (only what's appeared on screen).

    Never trust it, it's amateurishly run, inconsistent, and often wildly inaccurate.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  4. #4
    Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    Okay, I was just happy that they have given a name finally. I like naming things.

    BW and RCC also worked on Stargate : Worlds, so there are a few SG:W related race and planets too. Hopefully we can hear about them in a 4th SG series.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

  5. #5
    First Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    Yeah, I too find the wiki awkward to read. They're treating a lot of unreleased material as canon (such as the video games), and even use material from the RPG which is confirmed to be non-canon because it contradicts events that occurred later in the story after the RPG was written (such as the historical events in Continuum overruling the RPG's description of Nazis using the gate during WW2 until it was somehow "rescued" by Americans and brought to America by 1945) I edited that a few years back and some people initially erased my edits for no apparent reason.

    It makes the wiki very confusing as to what is canon, or what is actually correct. For example, the list of planets and Stargate addresses include planets from Stargate Worlds. Previously, I believe it even treated "General" Samantha Carter as the commander of the SGC just because her name appears on the general's desk in Stargate Resistance. Also the events from the film are explained awkwardly, treating both "sides" of the canon as correct, such as using the name "Sha'uri" instead of "Sha're", and referring to Ra's guards as "Jaffa", despite Jack saying they never encountered them on Abydos. Originally, it even used the original spelling of "O'Neil" and referred to "Creek Mountain".

    More so, it doesn't make a distinction between the films, TV shows, books, and canceled material. That's why I feel Stargate needs a Story Group like they have with Star Wars and a proper wiki like Wookiepedia that distinguishes between the "levels" of canon, or Legends and Canon as it is now.

    I was working on my own Wiki in the hopes of doing this, but life happened. Hopefully there is a way of fixing this, because the original Wiki is way too saturated with these errors.

  6. #6
    Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    Thanks for the detailed answer. If I have seen it well they put a little "non-canon" sign to such articles, which are not confirmed. I have never read any of the official SG novels, so those informations are also included, but I doubt that the tv shows would accept or build on it.

    Anyway it doesn't matter really now, because these informations are connected to 18-20 years old episodes. Probably a new SG show won't even mention these races or planets ever. I was just happy to find some new resource material while I was re-watching a few older SG-1 episodes. It felt like an extension to the known episodes with background infos, but it looks like I have to treat them like half-official fan fictions.

    The SG-1/Atlantis/Universe canon refers to the Stargate universe depicted in Stargate SG-1, Stargate: Atlantis and Stargate Universe and the universe that this wiki is dedicated to. This universe is based on the one depicted in the Stargate film, but there are some differences. However, it is clear that the events depicted in the film did occur in the SG-1/Atlantis/Universe universe and elements of the film are considered canon so long as they aren't directly contradicted by the series.

    There are many novels, comics, role playing games and other works set in this universe, meaning they use the characters and elements of the Stargate universe as seen in the SG-1/Atlantis/Universe canon to create storylines. Though the role-playing books[1] and Fandemonium novels[2] have been classified as canon, the comics and ROC novels have not had an official word said either way and so it is unclear whether or not they are canon. In disputes between evidence seen on screen and information from other sources (even official ones, such as the MGM Tech Journal), the evidence on screen will always take precedence.

    For further information on how to deal with canon on Stargate Wiki specifically, see our Manual of Style. For a list of canon, non-canon, and ambiguously-canon articles, see Category:Canon.
    http://stargate.wikia.com/wiki/Stargate_canon
    Last edited by Platschu; March 19th, 2018 at 04:40 AM.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

  7. #7
    John Diggle DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    And that is a lie, plain and simple.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  8. #8
    First Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    The novels have been classified as canon by MGM themselves, who check the manuscripts for continuity errors (as I've read from one of the writers). That's not to say they're perfect, or as strict as the original showrunners. And while the RPG had been classified as canon (even by Brad Wright), most of it now contradicts the shows because the RPG was released in 2003, thus missing out on another 5 years of SG-1 continuity, especially Continuum.

  9. #9
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    The novels have been classified as canon by MGM themselves, who check the manuscripts for continuity errors (as I've read from one of the writers). That's not to say they're perfect, or as strict as the original showrunners. And while the RPG had been classified as canon (even by Brad Wright), most of it now contradicts the shows because the RPG was released in 2003, thus missing out on another 5 years of SG-1 continuity, especially Continuum.
    That would be false. Giving a license to print books isn't the same as canon
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    Jelgate is right

  10. #10
    First Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    That would be false. Giving a license to print books isn't the same as canon
    I wasn't talking about the license. MGM owns Stargate, they said the books are canon. Technically, that makes it canon, whether or not we agree.

  11. #11
    Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    As I said I didn't want to cause any argument here, gaters. Probably the next SG show won't build on these extra informations or return to these old plotlines, so nothing to worry about. But as a fan I am just happy to get new background details about the known stories, races and planets.

    I have seen a few chapters about the fate of Asgard, Vanir, Weir and Ford which were continued in the SG:A Legacy series. That could be also interesting if the future writers will accept these character developments.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

  12. #12
    John Diggle DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    That would be false. Giving a license to print books isn't the same as canon
    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    I wasn't talking about the license. MGM owns Stargate, they said the books are canon. Technically, that makes it canon, whether or not we agree.
    If you read the citation the page gives, itís literally some guy on this forum who claims to be involved in the licensing process, who talks about MGM licensing vetting it. He never actually calls it canonóthe only time he mentions the word at all is to say itís MGMís property and that they can define canon when and how they wish. Whoever wrote the Wikia article made the unfounded assumption that thatís what the some guy meant.

    That kind of crap is endemic and widespread at that Wikia, and why I always point out that itís garbage and not trustworthy in the least
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  13. #13
    Hank Landry
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    Giving a license to print books isn't the same as canon
    Printing stuff is all they are doing. Whatever they feel like printing. No one at either MGM or Fandy is really checking for contradictions or continuity errors, so there is Blood Ties saying Ronon is immune to Wraith feeding and Fandy can't even keep their own continuity straight. In one book, Wraith blood is black. In the next, it is green. Then, it is back to black again after that. Meanwhile, on the show, it was red. In one book, faced Wraith are rapidly created somehow. In the next, they are born. Then, we get wiki articles contradicting themselves, too, depending on which writer is looking at which book-- and, none of which was stated on the show, which only showed one young Queen and did not explain her infant years, nor those of the faced males.

    The wikis might also be responsible for info from other tie-ins making their way into Origins and Fandy, from posts I have seen on here. What a mess.

    There were some people on here a few years ago trying to set up a wiki for canon only, but they were in such a hurry, they did not document and made a lot of errors too.
    Last edited by WraithTech; March 20th, 2018 at 04:47 AM.

  14. #14
    Air Force Chief of Staff Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    The novels have been classified as canon by MGM themselves, who check the manuscripts for continuity errors (as I've read from one of the writers).
    They don't check for continuity errors. They have someone who checks what the authors do with their characters, and whether they don't do anything that they don't want their characters doing, like write porn or extreme violence. As long as your story sorta follows the TV-continuity and doesn't radically alter the idea and/or the characters -- you can publish away if you have a license to do so.

    Not canon.
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  15. #15
    First Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    They don't check for continuity errors. They have someone who checks what the authors do with their characters, and whether they don't do anything that they don't want their characters doing, like write porn or extreme violence. As long as your story sorta follows the TV-continuity and doesn't radically alter the idea and/or the characters -- you can publish away if you have a license to do so.

    Not canon.
    I understand what you mean, but if MGM says it's canon, it's canon whether we like it or not. What we consider as canon, is often referred to as "fanon" with varying degrees of interpretations and fan-fiction. Whether or not MGM is actually checking for continuity, some of the writers did mention MGM did "fact-checking". Now, whether or not that's true or just a loose interpretation is beyond our knowledge. I did read some novels, but not all of them. I did find some errors in the ones I read so that does say something about MGM's approach.

    Regardless, the Wiki is correct in stating it's considered canon by MGM. It just doesn't interpret it in a way we all agree with, nor does it distinguish between the different material. I think, if they would make a more professional approach, it should separate the shows from all the other "EU" material. That's why I usually avoid the Wiki nowadays, simply because it's too "unprofessional" compared to say Wookiepedia which is much clearer. But I think the Wiki is too old and bloated to "clean it up" without angering a few veteran editors. (Hell, they even indicated General Hammond as the "Commander-in-Chief" of the SGC, which is a title reserved only for the President).

  16. #16
    John Diggle DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    ...but MGM doesn't say it's canon.

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    If you read the citation the page gives, itís literally some guy on this forum who claims to be involved in the licensing process, who talks about MGM licensing vetting it. He never actually calls it canonóthe only time he mentions the word at all is to say itís MGMís property and that they can define canon when and how they wish. Whoever wrote the Wikia article made the unfounded assumption that thatís what the some guy meant.

    That kind of crap is endemic and widespread at that Wikia, and why I always point out that itís garbage and not trustworthy in the least
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  17. #17
    John Diggle DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    Quote Originally Posted by WraithTech View Post
    There were some people on here a few years ago trying to set up a wiki for canon only, but they were in such a hurry, they did not document and made a lot of errors too.
    That was escyos, yeah. I was helping him out as best I could, but at the time I didn't have as much free time as it demanded to get it right. I seem to remember he had a couple other people working with him too, but I never interacted with them.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  18. #18
    First Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    I have a kind of "series bible" for personal use in which I describe as much canon material as possible, and my own personal "fanon" to expand or clarify on incomplete information (such as how the iris works, the dialing computer, the "Cheyenne Mountain missile silo", etc.). I have clearly marked what is definitively canon, what is "ambiguous" (as in, what is implied but never clearly stated), and my own non-canon expanded material. This includes a reasonably detailed timeline starting at the evolution of the Alterans up until the present day, the evolution of the Stargates, and detailed explanations of how the Stargates work (the coordinate system and how Icarus could use the Earth point of origin).

  19. #19
    John Diggle DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    Thatís probably more than the actual show producers had
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  20. #20
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Canon vs. non-canon SG informations about names of races

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Thatís probably more than the actual show producers had
    The producers did have a series bible though. Not super-extensive like that, but then again being obsessed over continuity is a recent trend. For it's time, Stargate did admirably.

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