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  1. #1
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    Default Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Always kind of wondered why while the SGC's main mandate was to gather alien technologies, they didn't collect staff weapons laying around. Sure the SGC had a small collection of Zats and staff weapons, but for example why didn't they bring a few to Atlantis just in case they ran out of bullets for the P90s. Could you imagine three Zat hits on a wraith and he disappears, problem solved.
    In a few episodes SG teams would come across whole battlefields of dead Jaffa littered with armaments. We've seen the naquada bulb alone power the Stargate to the Asgard galaxy. The SGC should have sent out people to at least scavange those from the discarded weapons.
    Carter was able to use a crystal from the Ori staff weapons to take the place of three naquada generators and power Auther's Mantle. Could you imagine what a few of those crystals would do for a ships weapons systems? Granted less of those laying around, but they could do some cool stuff for sure.

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    Goalkeeper thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    The 3rd shot for the zat was retconned. They even lampshaded it in Wormhole Xtreme.

    As to the other stuff, yes they stockpiled some but presumably most of it was shipped to Area 51 for research. Staff weapons are pretty inaccurate and so not very effective, while Ori tech was fairly rare.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Our weapons, like the P90 aren't quite as accurate in reality as they claim in the series. But that's here nor there. I still think that the SGC should have been sending people out to remove the Naquada power source out of each one of those staff weapons for use powering other technologies. I could see Carter and Dr Lee coming up with a rifle like staff weapon and maybe even centering the blast a bit more for accuracy.
    The Ori staff weapons on the other hand don't have as many just laying around. The few that are, that crystal alone could surpass the power levels of three naquada generators.

  4. #4
    Defender nivao's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Though perhaps not a complete explanation, old-fashioned bullets have proven more effective against armor and Replicators, not to mention being primitive enough to bypass most alien anti-weapon devices (like in Thor's Hammer), though not those from the Tollan. And it appears the P90 is much more accurate than other SMGs. Even if not, it has much less recoil and has a greater range than other similar weapons. Other energy weapons, like the staffs, are used primarily to intimidate, or as a heavy weapon. They are grossly inaccurate for normal use, much more so than the P90, regardless of that weapon's accuracy.

    Also remember that it took years before we had an energy weapon (using a miniature Naquadah generator) and even then it was huge, ungainly, and highly inaccurate.

    As for Zats, yes the third shot was basically removed/ignored after a while, and it has been noted that it's strange they weren't used in Atlantis to avoid running low on bullets. Of course, the Atlantis expedition did start using Wraith stunners on many occasions.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    All true, more thinking that these weapons would make a great backup weapons on places like Atlantis. Mostly thinking about the power sources on the two weapons. That much liquid naquada just laying around could power all kinds of cool toys. Why leave it? Those crystals in the Ori weapon powered Authur's mantle which would have took three naquada generators. Not as many laying around, but a few would have goon a long way in Atlantis. Maybe to power that teaching tool.

  6. #6
    Defender nivao's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by unscheduled traveller View Post
    All true, more thinking that these weapons would make a great backup weapons on places like Atlantis. Mostly thinking about the power sources on the two weapons. That much liquid naquada just laying around could power all kinds of cool toys. Why leave it? Those crystals in the Ori weapon powered Authur's mantle which would have took three naquada generators. Not as many laying around, but a few would have goon a long way in Atlantis. Maybe to power that teaching tool.
    It always struck me as weird that a tiny liquid naquadah capsule of a staff weapon could be used as a power source to dial eight chevrons (in "The Fifth Race"), while it requires a ZPM to dial Atlantis. Though of course Jack's improvised reactor died instantly once used, and it could have been so advanced to be able to use the naquadah extremely efficiently, I just can't see that a simple staff weapon could produce so much power. Why didn't they attempt to experiment with another capsule? Why aren't staff weapons more destructive with such a huge amount of power?

  7. #7
    Goalkeeper thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    It always struck me as weird that a tiny liquid naquadah capsule of a staff weapon could be used as a power source to dial eight chevrons (in "The Fifth Race"), while it requires a ZPM to dial Atlantis.
    It doesn't take THAT much energy. Atlantis dialled earth weekly, and it had no impact whatsoever on the charge level. Even with a monthly dial schedule a near-depleted ZPM would still be useful for a long time.

    Secondly, power = energy over time. A staff weapon operates for god knows how long. The stargate needed all that power in just a minute or so.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    A staff weapon's naquadah power source cannot be used to dial another galaxy. The device made it possible to draw ten times more energy from the SGC's grid than would normally be possible because trying without it would blow a circuit. The naquadah module powers the device itself, which controls the energy transfer and creates a small dampening field to protect the naquadah module. It's essentially a fancy circuit.

    *after O'neill hooks up the device and dials the gate*

    CARTER

    (to Hammond)
    Sir, somehow the Stargate just got a huge power boost. It's drawing ten times more power than normal.

    HAMMOND
    Isn't that impossible?

    CARTER
    Yes, Sir, the circuit should've blown.
    -Fifth Race (S2E16)

    CARTER
    Which we could download to a removable hard drive. But that still won't do it. Remember, in order to dial the Asgard home world, they had to provide us with a generator that transferred extra energy to the Gate's capacitors. I can't get it to work again. Apparently, it was designed to work only once. *

    ...

    SAMANTHA
    If it's powered by the energy module of a staff weapon, why doesn't it…?

    SAMANTHA and CARTER

    (in unison)
    Blow up.

    CARTER
    My best guess is that the device creates a modulated dampening field around the liquefied naquada cell.

    SAMANTHA
    Which controls the energy transfer to the capacitors. So maybe the modulation is thrown out of whack each time it's activated.
    -Point of View (S3E6)

    *The episode contains an inconsistency where it's claimed the device was given to Earth by the Asgard instead of built by Jack.

  9. #9
    Full Back StargateMillennium's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    A staff weapon's naquadah power source cannot be used to dial another galaxy. The device made it possible to draw ten times more energy from the SGC's grid than would normally be possible because trying without it would blow a circuit. The naquadah module powers the device itself, which controls the energy transfer and creates a small dampening field to protect the naquadah module. It's essentially a fancy circuit.
    Reading the quote you provided, I have to disagree with your assessment. It seems that the liquid naquadah capsule does provide the energy to power the stargate. The big question is how the circuits and capacitors are able to transfer 10x more energy without melting. As the Carters describe, slapping a battery with a voltage higher than the circuit intended results in exploding circuits. The dampening field described sounds like a power converter meant to control how the power is flowing.


    Stargate spin off series: Stargate Millennium
    https://www.fanfiction.net/u/5580179/StargateMillennium


  10. #10
    Defender nivao's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Indeed, the Stargate is drawing ten times more power, which is provided by Jack's device once it's hooked up. Somehow, the technology prevents the circuits from blowing, just like Sam says.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    It doesn't take THAT much energy. Atlantis dialled earth weekly, and it had no impact whatsoever on the charge level. Even with a monthly dial schedule a near-depleted ZPM would still be useful for a long time.

    Secondly, power = energy over time. A staff weapon operates for god knows how long. The stargate needed all that power in just a minute or so.
    It does require a considerable amount of power, because a naquadah generator doesn't provide enough (or else they could've dialed right away), which means they do need a ZPM or equivalent. The ZPM they used to dial Earth was not nearly depleted, it was fully charged until the city was hit by the Replicator satellite. After that, they replaced it with the ZPM from the Asuran homeworld, again fully charged. To dial Atlantis the first time, they used the nearly-depleted ZPM that was previously used to fire the drones that destroyed Anubis' fleet. That ZPM became depleted once the gate shut down.

    But I could agree with the power drain over time. As the staff weapon is much less powerful, it's power source can last much longer.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Rodney explained a depleted ZPM could make a collect call to a gate powered by a black hole. They would reverse the charges so to speak.
    Of course Orlin built a mini gate in Sam's garage using things he bought online and parts of her toaster.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    It does require a considerable amount of power, because a naquadah generator doesn't provide enough (or else they could've dialed right away), which means they do need a ZPM or equivalent. The ZPM they used to dial Earth was not nearly depleted, it was fully charged until the city was hit by the Replicator satellite. After that, they replaced it with the ZPM from the Asuran homeworld, again fully charged. To dial Atlantis the first time, they used the nearly-depleted ZPM that was previously used to fire the drones that destroyed Anubis' fleet. That ZPM became depleted once the gate shut down.

    But I could agree with the power drain over time. As the staff weapon is much less powerful, it's power source can last much longer.
    In "Adrift" i think, they mention that if they dial monthly, they can still get good use out of a near-depleted ZPM.

    I'm not saying it doesn't take considerable energy, but a ZPM is merely a convenient energy source, not a minimum necessity. Ten times the power implies in itself that ten Naquahdah generators could power a connection. That still puts it well out of range of what humans can power in a convenient way.

    A ZPM can blow up a planet, putting it's energy content in the 10^33 joule region. A naquahdah generator is basically a tactical nuke, putting it in the Kiloton (10^12) region. Even a hundred of such generators would only put the output at 10^14, or still 19 orders of magnitude below what a ZPM can easily provide.

    Hell, the mark 12 from the far future could power the shield for only a short while, even though a ZPM can power it indefinitely when not strained.

    So we can see that powering an intergalactic connection with a ZPM, is like powering a lightbulb with a nuclear reactor.
    Last edited by thekillman; March 6th, 2018 at 11:43 PM.

  13. #13

    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    So we can see that powering an intergalactic connection with a ZPM, is like powering a lightbulb with a nuclear reactor.
    Yes, a ZPM is insanely powerful as the analogy is accurate to me. As for the device O'Neill built and naquadah generators, I suspect it has more to do with stability than energy capabilities. I suspect naquadah can provide enough power for intergalactic calls; it's just that it will exceed manageable stability and go critical - KABOOM! The basis of this argument is the observation from the less stable naquadria. I assume both are same in every way except naquadria is more powerful & less stable. Therefore the Ancient tech device O'Neill built controls the nuclear reaction without going KABOOM (as mention above in Fifth Race)(low reaction=low power, big reaction=high power). Think of it like nuclear power plant using carbon rods to control electron reaction as naqauadah generators while nuclear plants using some new classified material to control electrons as Ancient tech naquadah power cell.

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Still leaves me wondering why they wouldn't at least take the naquida from each staff weapon they find. Goa'uld were the litterbugs of the Galaxy and would have left a lot of it laying around.
    And even more so the less easily obtained crystals from the Ori' army staff weapons. Already saw were those with slight modification could power ancient devices.

  15. #15
    Goalkeeper thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Quote Originally Posted by unscheduled traveller View Post
    Still leaves me wondering why they wouldn't at least take the naquida from each staff weapon they find. Goa'uld were the litterbugs of the Galaxy and would have left a lot of it laying around.
    And even more so the less easily obtained crystals from the Ori' army staff weapons. Already saw were those with slight modification could power ancient devices.
    Many run-ins with the Ori were fairly close encounters with no real chance to obtain such technology. As to naquahdah, the SGC did acquire quite a bit of it. Most of it went to shipbuilding. The SGC lacked the technology to use it to it's full potential which is why it was never actually used to it's full potential.

    I mean, the Goa'uld using naquahdah to power their ships etc was considered virtually inconceivable to Area 51. Naquahdriah was thought to be the key to Goa'uld technology like Hyperdrives, before discovering it was some one-off experiment. I mean, they knew the Goa'uld used naquahdah for power, but it was believed that there was more to it than that, indicating that in the Prometheus era, Area 51 was still in the dark about most of this kind of tech.

    even with the Asgard tech, most SGC knowledge was heavily specialized in these areas, to the point plasma weapons technology was still impossible in S7 (a failed prototype looked quite large and heavy, while massively underperforming compared to even a staffweapon). This despite them knowing about Asgard shields and intergalactic hyperdrives.

    Stockpiling more Naquahdah (liquid or not) would simply not nearly be as useful as figuring out how to use it, and they were trying to figure out how to use it.

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    Powering the Naquada generators?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    In the Fifth race Jack hooked up the Naquadah bulb to a large circuit box so I concluded that the power didn't come from the bulb but from the electrical grid used by the sgc. I surmised that the bulb only allowed the gate to draw ten times the power it usually does not provide the power.

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Goa'ould and Ori Staff weapons and power sources.

    In Atlantis they talk about power sources to jump start the gate rather then power it.

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