Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

is star trek dying / dead ?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    is star trek dying / dead ?

    I'm starting to feel like our pack is dwindling.. the fans are becoming rarer.. a new generation of (superficial) fans are emerging who love action and don't get all the moral stories out of STD that we used to get in TNG and VOY. It's a different genre and attracts a different type

    #2
    Originally posted by moncapitain View Post
    I'm starting to feel like our pack is dwindling.. the fans are becoming rarer.. a new generation of (superficial) fans are emerging who love action and don't get all the moral stories out of STD that we used to get in TNG and VOY. It's a different genre and attracts a different type
    From my experience Star Trek has never been more popular. There's just more variety now. You have your general sci-fi fans who love Trek but something else is their favourite fandom. You have the old school fans who love TOS through to VOY and hated Enterprise and DIS. People who have never really watched the show but like the movies. People who never really watched classic Trek but like DIS and then you have people who simply pick and choose and say like TNG and VOY but dislike all the others and so on.

    Personally I still see a lot of moral stories in DIS they just aren't as in your face as they were in TNG. There was a long season spanning moral to it instead. Not that Star Trek HAS to do those sorts of stories. The episodes considered the best in classic Trek like "Best of Both Worlds", "Way of the Warrior", "Scorpion" etc. are action orientated and full of character moments. And given that this is Discovery's first and overall shorter season than any Trek before I would expect them to do more action anyway to bring in the fans. It's not the right time for their "Measure of a Man" moment yet.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
      From my experience Star Trek has never been more popular. There's just more variety now. You have your general sci-fi fans who love Trek but something else is their favourite fandom. You have the old school fans who love TOS through to VOY and hated Enterprise and DIS. People who have never really watched the show but like the movies. People who never really watched classic Trek but like DIS and then you have people who simply pick and choose and say like TNG and VOY but dislike all the others and so on.

      Personally I still see a lot of moral stories in DIS they just aren't as in your face as they were in TNG. There was a long season spanning moral to it instead. Not that Star Trek HAS to do those sorts of stories. The episodes considered the best in classic Trek like "Best of Both Worlds", "Way of the Warrior", "Scorpion" etc. are action orientated and full of character moments. And given that this is Discovery's first and overall shorter season than any Trek before I would expect them to do more action anyway to bring in the fans. It's not the right time for their "Measure of a Man" moment yet.
      True but with the actress who plays michael burnham & the script, even the action is mediochre at best. There's just no 3 dimensionalness to the character.

      Comment


        #4
        False.
        "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by moncapitain View Post
          True but with the actress who plays michael burnham & the script, even the action is mediochre at best. There's just no 3 dimensionalness to the character.
          I've seen a few people say this since Discovery started and I've had the same response every time - No 1st season of Star Trek (TNG, DS9, VOY and ENT anyway) is good. And the characters never come across as anything other than relatively bland and lifeless. TNG season one is awful to the point of being unwatchable if it wasn't for how hilariously bad the scripts are.

          Now I grant we expect more from TV shows these days, but Star Trek does have a disadvantage in that it is such massively broad story telling. You can literally do anything or be anywhere with a Star Trek episode. And that kinda means that some times a character will suffer. Personally I really like Burnham but I can see why some people are a bit uncertain about her. But at the end of the day you're asking someone to play a woman who is human... but with a little Vulcan along for the ride. That's a tough mix to get right and it's ok for an actor to take some time to get a feel for their character.
          Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by moncapitain View Post
            a new generation of (superficial) fans are emerging
            Either a franchise extracts new fans, or inevitably dies out. And no new fan will have a grasp of all series and episodes spanning decades.

            Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
            From my experience Star Trek has never been more popular.
            I agree. It was close to dying out in the past decade, but with the movie reboot i've never seen it be so popular.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by moncapitain View Post
              I'm starting to feel like our pack is dwindling.. the fans are becoming rarer.. a new generation of (superficial) fans are emerging who love action and don't get all the moral stories out of STD that we used to get in TNG and VOY. It's a different genre and attracts a different type
              I don't think it's dying as much as the people that make up the fan base is changing. Some of the older fans that watched TOS in the 60's are dying off, as are the original cast members and others associated with its production. TOS was also morality plays, but the morality of the day doesn't resonate with young people today, so they aren't getting into it.

              And some of us older folks didn't really buy into some of the later incarnations; Roddenberry's original vision was a highly optimized vision of the future, where Human society had more or less resolved all of its intramural squabbling, but shows like DS9 that focused on the dark underbelly of the Federation didn't jel with me, for example.

              Voyager was good, but it's distribution via independent TV stations, often over-the-air on UHF stations which are unwatchable for many people hurt it. Before it was picked up by the local cable network, the local station which carried Voyager was hit or miss for me, so I couldn't really follow it. Sometimes I just couldn't get a decent picture, and I was only 5-6 miles from the the transmitter site at the time. Those farther out didn't have a chance of seeing it.

              Enterprise was ok; as with any Trek franchise entry, it took a season for them to get their stride, but for me, the Xindi story arc which dominated season three bored me to tears. I remember tuning in and "oh, crap, more Xindi, Click". I don't think I was alone with that, 'cause the ratings tanked. S4 was excellent, the best of the series, but by then the audience had left.

              I haven't seen Discovery aside from the 2 hour premier which aired on CBS Broadcast network. I resist subscribing to a pay service to get access to one show. I'll give it some time to show up on netflix or some other mega-service.

              As for the movies, Jar Jar Abrams' rewrite of Trek history pissed a lot of old school fans off, some never returned. Myself, I walked out of the 2009 movie on opening night saying "it's a great action-adventure movie, but it's not Star Trek". but I do concede that that reboot drew a lot of new fans to replace us aging dinosaurs, which benefited the franchise as a whole.

              I don't think it's dying, but it is changing.

              Comment


                #8
                I haven't seen Discovery aside from the 2 hour premier which aired on CBS Broadcast network. I resist subscribing to a pay service to get access to one show. I'll give it some time to show up on netflix or some other mega-service.
                I actually never saw the pilot. It is not worth it for me just pay for one show. I don't watch anything else on CBS (nor do I want too). I may watch it if it comes to a streaming site that I already have. If I can get past wtf they did the Klingons (those are not klingons!) and how "modern" it looks.

                I still love the shows (especially DS9) and I've seen the original movies and a few TNG movies. I rewatch episodes of all five some times. I however, not a fan of the jj Adam's movies.
                sigpic

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
                  I don't think it's dying as much as the people that make up the fan base is changing. Some of the older fans that watched TOS in the 60's are dying off, as are the original cast members and others associated with its production. TOS was also morality plays, but the morality of the day doesn't resonate with young people today, so they aren't getting into it.

                  And some of us older folks didn't really buy into some of the later incarnations; Roddenberry's original vision was a highly optimized vision of the future, where Human society had more or less resolved all of its intramural squabbling, but shows like DS9 that focused on the dark underbelly of the Federation didn't jel with me, for example.

                  Voyager was good, but it's distribution via independent TV stations, often over-the-air on UHF stations which are unwatchable for many people hurt it. Before it was picked up by the local cable network, the local station which carried Voyager was hit or miss for me, so I couldn't really follow it. Sometimes I just couldn't get a decent picture, and I was only 5-6 miles from the the transmitter site at the time. Those farther out didn't have a chance of seeing it.

                  Enterprise was ok; as with any Trek franchise entry, it took a season for them to get their stride, but for me, the Xindi story arc which dominated season three bored me to tears. I remember tuning in and "oh, crap, more Xindi, Click". I don't think I was alone with that, 'cause the ratings tanked. S4 was excellent, the best of the series, but by then the audience had left.

                  I haven't seen Discovery aside from the 2 hour premier which aired on CBS Broadcast network. I resist subscribing to a pay service to get access to one show. I'll give it some time to show up on netflix or some other mega-service.

                  As for the movies, Jar Jar Abrams' rewrite of Trek history pissed a lot of old school fans off, some never returned. Myself, I walked out of the 2009 movie on opening night saying "it's a great action-adventure movie, but it's not Star Trek". but I do concede that that reboot drew a lot of new fans to replace us aging dinosaurs, which benefited the franchise as a whole.

                  I don't think it's dying, but it is changing.
                  DS9 for me was sort of enjoyable if only for the "WW2 in space" feel to it when the Federation begins to realize that while it's good to explore...you shouldn't focus solely on exploration to the point of being ill-prepared for prolonged combat against an intractable enemy

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I think Star Trek as well as Star Wars are hardly going to die, if at all be reinventing themselves to target a younger audience but as long as there are sci-fi fans, Star trek will live on

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by mad_gater View Post
                      DS9 for me was sort of enjoyable if only for the "WW2 in space" feel to it when the Federation begins to realize that while it's good to explore...you shouldn't focus solely on exploration to the point of being ill-prepared for prolonged combat against an intractable enemy
                      I don't think they ever did have that mindset to be honest. They just didn't have the technology and weapons to deal with enemies like the Borg and Dominion until they had met them and knew what they were facing. The shows make it clear that periods of peace are usually fairly short luxuries. In the 24th century alone we know of the war with the cardassians which was relatively recent and fresh at the start of tng and also a conflict with the Tzenkethi. constantly through TNG they were prepared to throw down with the Romulans too. They problem they faced was that the races of the Alpha and Beta quadrants all had similar levels of tech and similar tactics after so many years of knowing about one another.
                      Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by blueray View Post
                        I may watch it if it comes to a streaming site that I already have. If I can get past wtf they did the Klingons (those are not klingons!) and how "modern" it looks.
                        Sadly, greed being as pervasive as it is, I think we're going to see more of this fragmentation before the content creators realize that people aren't going to subscribe to 3,842 different services to see the shows they would like to watch.
                        6 or 9 bucks a month for Star Trek, and similar amounts for other shows; people in large numbers just can't afford that.
                        I have no problem paying for a Netflix account or an Amazon Prime account, where you get a variety of shows for your money. But piecemeal is unaffordable.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
                          I don't think they ever did have that mindset to be honest. They just didn't have the technology and weapons to deal with enemies like the Borg and Dominion until they had met them and knew what they were facing. The shows make it clear that periods of peace are usually fairly short luxuries. In the 24th century alone we know of the war with the cardassians which was relatively recent and fresh at the start of tng and also a conflict with the Tzenkethi. constantly through TNG they were prepared to throw down with the Romulans too. They problem they faced was that the races of the Alpha and Beta quadrants all had similar levels of tech and similar tactics after so many years of knowing about one another.
                          That's the thing about a playground as infinite as the universe is. "There's always a bigger fish". I'm sure that someplace, there is a race that will hand the Borg their heads just as readily as the Borg carved up the Federation fleet @ Wolf 359. And I'm not talking about incorporeal species such as the Organians or the Q, either.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
                            That's the thing about a playground as infinite as the universe is. "There's always a bigger fish". I'm sure that someplace, there is a race that will hand the Borg their heads just as readily as the Borg carved up the Federation fleet @ Wolf 359. And I'm not talking about incorporeal species such as the Organians or the Q, either.
                            Indeed. We saw them in Voyager.
                            Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by P-90_177 View Post
                              I don't think they ever did have that mindset to be honest. They just didn't have the technology and weapons to deal with enemies like the Borg and Dominion until they had met them and knew what they were facing. The shows make it clear that periods of peace are usually fairly short luxuries. In the 24th century alone we know of the war with the cardassians which was relatively recent and fresh at the start of tng and also a conflict with the Tzenkethi. constantly through TNG they were prepared to throw down with the Romulans too. They problem they faced was that the races of the Alpha and Beta quadrants all had similar levels of tech and similar tactics after so many years of knowing about one another.
                              I don't know about that though. It seemed to me that despite these conflicts they kept devoting the vast majority of their shipbuilding resources toward explorer-type vessels. Armed ones for sure but built primarily for exploration nonetheless and not designed to take the kind of punishment you see in wartime situations. In the Dominion's case I don't think they were all that much more advanced in technology (at least once the Feds adapted their shield tech to the phased polaron beans they were using). What made the Dominion such a diffucult enemy for even the Klingons to fight was the fact that the Dominion could pretty much "grow" new footsoldiers rapidly (i.e., the Jem'Hadar). And I believe they had the capacity to rapidly build new warships as well. So yes the Domion had a few "advantages" but the Federation I maintain still took heavy losses because most of their fleet was old 23rd and early 24th century explorer-type vessels. So basically they were primarily explorer ships with armament perhaps sufficient for chasing off pirates and whose hulls weren't designed for the stresses of protracted wartime situations going up against enemy warships built solely for the purpose of engaging in protracted wartime situations. About the only thing remotely close to warships the Federation had were the Galaxy-class and Defiant-class vessels. the Klingons took heavy losses from the Dominion at first again probably because of the numbers situation for one thing (The Dominion again having the capacity to field large numerical advantages in battle) but also because I would bet that the Klingons were stretched thin trying to compensate for their Federation allies' lack of purpose-built warships.

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X