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  1. #1
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Ok we're at the end, the writers intend to make this not contradict existing canon. At the start there were a lot of apparent contradictions that have now been explained. The intention of this is to make an exhaustive list of everything people might think is a contradiction:

    1. Langfords going through the gate - Aset uses a modified version of the Kara'kesh to wipe the memories of Catherine, Prof Langford and Kasuf, everyone else dies - except Wassif and his boyfriend who are mind wiped into becoming Ra's guards. The only character from the series who would remember is Serqet and Ra.
    2. Using a car battery to power the gate - Not a contradiction - SG1 did the exact same thing in "1969". As well as the car, SGO also used a flood light generator. It's been established that the Gate only needs a bit of power for the initial activation, before using the DHD on the other end to keep it powered.
    3. Aset appearing - this has been considered a contradiction as Aset is another name for Isis and we know that she died before 1939 (The Curse) - This has been explained in the mission file for episode 7 -

      To summarise: The Isis in a jar in "The Curse" is the original and Aset is a clone. Isis cloned herself and changed her name is Aset and went underground, recently presenting herself to Ra who has kept her existence secret to hide cloning tech from the other system lords
    4. Catherine is with James and not Ernest - Not a contradiction - remember this was 6 years before the opening of Torment of Tantalus is set, relationships can change. Also, the Kara'kesh takes away Catherine's memories of Beal
    5. Catherine's age - dialogue in TOT implies that Catherine was 21 in 1945, which would make her 15 in SGO
      Quote Originally Posted by TTOT
      CATHERINE
      The military had very little use for a 21-year-old girl at that time. Neither did my father. I only know what little I overheard him and Ernest talking about.
      However this would also make her 4 years old in the Giza dig scene, which she isn't. So she was probably approximating her age or referring to her age when the research started
    6. No pyramid on Abydos - There is a pyramid they just don't gate into it, Ra decides to move the gate in episode 10
    7. They could see stars when they went through the gate
      I think this is an actual contradiction, but one that can be fanwanked explained away. I was always under the impression that travellers were democularised on passing through the event horizon and re-assembled on the other end. So they shouldn't have seen anything. The gate travelling effect is just a visual thing for the audience.

      I guess they could have been referring to the point while their face is in the "water", just before demolecularisation. I don't believe that we ever saw the what they see in this period or heard it described
    8. Goa'uld permanently glowing eyes
      Mission file for episode 6 explains that Aset developed retinal implants
    9. The Abydobian healing device

      Explained in mission file.

      Quote Originally Posted by mission file ep 5
      Motahk and Kasuf both call for the Wand of Horus, a special healing device gifted to the villagers by their god, Aset. The device was a new creation of Aset’s, utilizing similar technology seen in a sarcophagus to enable those without high levels of naquadah in their blood to heal wounds in the field. The end use for such a technology was actually for a new military force that Aset had been planning, but gifting a prototype to her tribespeople served the dual purpose of field testing while ensuring their continued loyalty without the aggression her fellow Goa’uld so enjoyed. Aset, in all her wisdom, would never have imagined the wand would be used on a being who served no benefit to her cause, though.
    10. DHD buttons not lighting up when pressed in episode 4
      A few people have commented on this, but this isn't an issue. Look at the scene carefully. She presses the first button and it does light up, then she merely searches for the rest and puts her hand on each one as she goes - but doesn't actually press down for the remaining 5
    11. Gate looking more metallic

      At first I was willing to dismiss this as a production choice, and therefore wasn't going to include in this list. But we saw in episode 4 a gate being cleaned for the first time in the entire franchise. So it's obvious that all the gates we saw previously were simply dirty
    12. Kasuf's age
      Kasuf appears to be late teens in this, which would put him in his 70s-80s by the time of the original film/early SG1. The original Kasuf actor (Erick Avari) is a lot younger than this (40s/50s) - but I think we can all agree that he looks a lot older than this in the film. - If indeed it is the same Kasuf
    13. Catherine calling the Stargate the "gate"
      This one is especially nitpicky - but she should have known it as the "doorway to heaven" - Daniel Jackson was the first to translate it as "Stargate" in the movie.
      That said, the Nazi man does refer it as the "gate" in front of her - and he probably got the translation correct.
    14. Catherine working on the gate
      In SGO Catherine is presented as Prof Langford's assistant and seems to know a lot about the gate. However in TTOT their relationship seems strained and she isn't working on it. We know that they don't have the best father-daughter relationship due to how easily they got into an argument in Ep1. Perhaps in the intervening years between SGO and TTOT they had a falling out, and this was compounded by the fact the US military wouldn't allow her to work on it.


    Please use this thread to discuss other contradictions and speculate on possible explanations for all this.

    In terms of it fitting into canon... There's no real impact on the story of the movie or SG1. It's a bit like a Fandomonuim novel or Big Finish audio in that sense. You can take it or leave it.
    Last edited by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac; March 9th, 2018 at 01:56 PM. Reason: updates for 8,9 & 10

  2. #2
    Chief Master Sergeant mooseman's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contractions - Explanations and Speculation - **Spoilers*

    I explain her age as that she meant she was 21 when she got rejected when the US program started, which I assume was when it was brought to America in 1939. Which makes her 20-21 in Origins.

    Most people complaining about the VW powering the gate don't seem to understand they had a separate generator as well. (I'll admit I was a bit perplexed at that, until Catherine did it.)

  3. #3
    First Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contractions - Explanations and Speculation - **Spoilers*

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
    1. No pyramid on Abydos - remember it was nearly 60 years before the movie so it obviously wasn't built yet
    .
    How do you know there is no pyramid? It's more likely the pyramid was built as soon as Ra colonized the planet, because he needed a safe place to land each time he would come in his ship, the same way with the Giza pyramids, which were built not long after he arrived on Earth.

    I have another explanation, bear with me:

    Do you remember the Star Trek reboot? It was both a sequel and a reboot. It kept all the continuity from the existing franchise but introduced a major event that chronologically happened after Star Trek Nemesis, which saw the Romulans and Spock travel back in time. That time traveling changed the past, resulting in the alternate timeline that set up the reboot.

    Now, Stargate Origins is considered (by MGM) as a prequel and canon. So what if it's the reverse of Star Trek? Instead of creating a new timeline, the events take place in an alternate timeline chronologically before any of the original continuity. Something eventually happens that causes the timeline to change into the true timeline that we see in the film and shows. This way, the events of Origins still have to happen in order to get to what we consider the "prime" timeline, while those of us who don't like Origins can safely ignore all of it as if it never happened.

    Remember the Atlantis episode "Before I Sleep"? It explained that in the "original" timeline, Atlantis never resurfaced and the whole expedition was lost, except for Dr. Weir who accidentally traveled far back in time to right before the Lanteans left for Earth. This changed the timeline so that Janus programmed the city to resurface once it detects the expedition arriving, resulting in the "prime" timeline we see from the pilot onward.
    Last edited by NickEast; February 17th, 2018 at 04:45 PM.

  4. #4
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contractions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
    There's been a lot of fuss about the canon being broken, and a lot of people getting mad about it and wanting to boycott the show because of it. Now of course the big thing is the Langford's going through the gate, which hasn't been explained yet, but I've also seen complaints about stuff that aren't contractions at all.
    I'm happy you made this. Criticism of a series is fine, but i think SGO is receiving more hate than it really deserves. I also don't think canon is nearly as important as people think. SG1 broke with loads of movie canon, yet it turned out fine.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
    Langfords going through the gate - Currently unexplained. I recently re-watched Torment of Tantalus and it's clear that in 1945 the Langfords didn't know the gate's true purpose, they had assumed it was a weapon.
    Daddy langford thinks he's in the past, whereas the occultist seems to think that he's literally in heaven (though think greek "olympus" heaven, not christian "souls passed on" heaven). It could be that Catherine completely misunderstands the nature and purpose of the gate.

    By the time of the movie it seems they knew and understood most of the gate (again, they'd dialled up to 6 symbols), but the true purpose wasn't understood until daniel correctly translated "gateway to heaven" as "star gate".

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
    [*]No pyramid on Abydos - remember it was nearly 60 years before the movie so it obviously wasn't built yet
    Was there? I thought they are in the main pyramid. But this could explain a lot actually. If the pyramid is still under construction, then the Gate would have to be moved there. It could make it inaccessible for a few years as the Gate is put in storage and then moved (wouldn't want a kawoosh into your sparkly new pyramid).
    Last edited by thekillman; February 17th, 2018 at 11:56 PM.

  5. #5
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contractions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    How do you know there is no pyramid? It's more likely the pyramid was built as soon as Ra colonized the planet, because he needed a safe place to land each time he would come in his ship, the same way with the Giza pyramids, which were built not long after he arrived on Earth.
    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    Was there? I thought they are in the main pyramid. But this could explain a lot actually. If the pyramid is still under construction, then the Gate would have to be moved there. It could make it inaccessible for a few years as the Gate is put in storage and then moved (wouldn't want a kawoosh into your sparkly new pyramid).
    I'm referring to this establishing shot:



    I figured the building is the base of the pyramid we see in the movie and show, and that the Pyramid hadn't been built. But I guess the other explanation is simply that the gate gets moved to the pyramid.

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    Daddy langford thinks he's in the past, whereas the occultist seems to think that he's literally in heaven (though think greek "olympus" heaven, not christian "souls passed on" heaven). It could be that Catherine completely misunderstands the nature and purpose of the gate.

    By the time of the movie it seems they knew and understood most of the gate (again, they'd dialled up to 6 symbols), but the true purpose wasn't understood until daniel correctly translated "gateway to heaven" as "star gate".
    Here's the relevant dialogue:

    Quote Originally Posted by TTOT
    CATHERINE

    My father headed up a research team that worked on the 'gate during the war. Actually, they didn't know what it was then. President Roosevelt was like that—curious. They suspected the 'gate was a weapon and could be used as one. Nothing ever came of it, though.
    Quote Originally Posted by TTOT

    FLASHBACK

    INT—LANGFORD DINING ROOM,1945

    [Ernest and Catherine's father, Langford, are seated at the dining room table.]

    ERNEST
    (excitedly)
    There must be over a hundred million possible combinations. If it's merely a combination lock used to turn it on, why 39 symbols? Why not six?
    LANGFORD
    (irritably)
    What are you saying?
    ERNEST
    They're not combinations. They're destinations, and we just found one.
    LANGFORD
    A doorway to heaven can mean any number of different things. It could simply mean that anyone who passes through there will die…
    We see that Ernest is on the right lines here.
    The prof speculates that it might kill you, how can he think this when he went through previously and survived?

    There's also the fact that TOT is implied to be Catherine's first trip in the gate.

    It might be that the Langfords had misunderstood the gate, but I think the above implies they had 0 idea what it was. They should at least have an inkling after this

  6. #6

    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contractions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Yes! Thank you for making this thread. I also believe that its still premature the judge the dis-continuity of the show. How many times have we seen the main plot twist/explanations come only in the 3rd act of a movie that blow people's mind/preconception (like the total unexpected villain twist in Spiderman:Homecoming).

    Langfords going through the gate - Currently unexplained. I recently re-watched Torment of Tantalus and it's clear that in 1945 the Langfords didn't know the gate's true purpose, they had assumed it was a weapon
    My theory is that they both know the gate's true purpose and they cover it up. The why has to do with what happens for the remainder of the story. Or it will be a simple inconsistency unlike the differences between the movie and SG-1.

    No pyramid on Abydos
    Best guess is Ra built it on top of Aset's palace once Aset is killed/captured/exiled? by the end of the SGO series, with the Stargate left inside the palace/inner pyramid chamber, so that O'Neill and Jackson arrive years later in the movie.

  7. #7
    Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contractions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    I hope the last scene will be that they put the gate in box on the board of the Achilleus. That would be a nice tie to Continuum. It would be even better if Ben Browder could have made a small cameo (or someone with the same clothes).
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

  8. #8
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contractions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Supergater View Post
    My theory is that they both know the gate's true purpose and they cover it up. The why has to do with what happens for the remainder of the story. Or it will be a simple inconsistency unlike the differences between the movie and SG-1.
    One would wonder why Catherine will lobby for so many years to get the program started again... Waste 2 years not making any progress before hiring Daniel Jackson.... And why need Daniel Jackson in the first place when you already know the symbols are star constellations, and that you needed a 7-symbol combination to open the gate?

    Yeah, perhaps it's a cover-up... But very very very very very far-fetched explanation when put in contrast with the character's actions later in her life..

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    I hope the last scene will be that they put the gate in box on the board of the Achilleus. That would be a nice tie to Continuum. It would be even better if Ben Browder could have made a small cameo (or someone with the same clothes).
    With a cameo from Ben Browder... That would be awesome

  9. #9

    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contractions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    i agree that would have been a really good tie in.

  10. #10
    Second Lieutenant Osiristi's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contractions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Regarding Aset. The Stargate Official Fanpage on Facebook has actually said that the canopic jar issue will be resolved during the next 7 episodes. Kind of spoilery for them to say, actually. They have also commented on multiple occasions that all apparent continuity issues will indeed be resolved. I doubt all will, but it would seem they hit some kind of reset button at the end of the show.

    Here's a link to the Aset comment:
    Facebook post

  11. #11
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Maybe the Asguard turn up and say "nope, not progressed enough to play in our sandbox, try again in 50 years" and wipe everybody's minds regarding the trip.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian-S View Post
    Maybe the Asguard turn up and say "nope, not progressed enough to play in our sandbox, try again in 50 years" and wipe everybody's minds regarding the trip.
    Probably my favorite theory yet


  13. #13
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Just a theoratical question. When Mitchell escaped through the stargate in the Continuum then he must have showed up in 1929 through the gate in Egypt on Earth. Was the gate digged out? It must have been, so how could nobody notice an incoming traveller? Or shall we treat this plothole as a new AU created while "Origins" plays in our normal reality?
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."

  14. #14
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    Cloning is one of those things where Stargate acted like it would be super complex whereas nowadays it's pretty much doable in a reasonable fashion.
    What made it look super complex?
    Granted the Asgard cloning problem was an unsolvable one in the end. But the problem wasn't cloning per-sé, but rather the consequences that result with multiple generations of clones. Or as Carter put it so O'Neill could understand, the problems with making a copy of a copy of a copy. Eventually there's degradation.
    I don't remember anything in particular that made the process of cloning itself seem super hard. The only thing that comes to mind is from "Resurrection", but there again it wasn't cloning itself the difficulty, it was combining human and Goa'uld DNA together in a viable living being that proved difficult.

    Quote Originally Posted by Supergater View Post
    I agree that that's possible but I would like to point out that in that same episode, Dr Jackson said "the hieroglyphs identify the jar as Isis...Goa'uld symbol indicate Isis & Osiris suffered some kind on punishment/banishment", so these facts should more likely to be (in show) accurate/still canon with SGO. But also said was "legend has it that Osiris was placed in magic box and dump into Nile by Seth", keyword on LEGEND has it, meaning part of the statement is mostly true with possible deviations. My guess here is the banishment is going to be episode 10 of SGO with deviation from legend being Ra instead of Seth doing the banishment. (Boy are there a lot of theories flying around with just 3 SGO episodes released )
    Yeah, the "legend" allow for some potential leeway story-wise, as to who might have put them in the jar, and for which purpose. That's where I feel a retcon will help fill-in the gaps and make it consistent (so we are promised).

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
    One thought I had with this whole thing.... Prof Langford theorises that they are in the past. Maybe they hit a solar flare and they are...
    Seemed obvious to me that the intent was to show Langford being wrong once again instead of providing another possible explanation to their adventures. But I suppose that's always possible at this point.

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    Just a theoratical question. When Mitchell escaped through the stargate in the Continuum then he must have showed up in 1929 through the gate in Egypt on Earth. Was the gate digged out? It must have been, so how could nobody notice an incoming traveller? Or shall we treat this plothole as a new AU created while "Origins" plays in our normal reality?
    Hmmm, interesting. I had not considered Mitchell coming back in 1929.
    Since the gate was raised in Giza in 1928, we can safely assume he landed in Egypt. Otherwise he would have landed in the crevasse in Antarctica . Perhaps even landing in the same warehouse as we saw in SGO, depending if the gate was there for the whole 10 years they were studying it.

    I suppose it's always possible he came through unnoticed. Nothing says the gate was being guarded 24/7 in 1929. Even in SGO's first episode there's nobody noticing the Nazi coming in until they are out of their car.

    Now I really really want to see a Ben Browder cameo in the last episode, as they put the gate in the Achilles

    Since I don't see any reason to call it a plothole, I see no reason to split the Stargate timeline in two. Hopefully that will remain true forever! I'd hate to see them do something like they did in the latest series of StarTrek movies, splitting the timeline in two independent story lines.

  15. #15
    Colonel knowles2's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    Just a theoratical question. When Mitchell escaped through the stargate in the Continuum then he must have showed up in 1929 through the gate in Egypt on Earth. Was the gate digged out? It must have been, so how could nobody notice an incoming traveller? Or shall we treat this plothole as a new AU created while "Origins" plays in our normal reality?
    Or Mitchell did what had to be done, he killed any of the witnesses who saw the gate activate. The rest just wrote the whole event of as a earthquake.

  16. #16
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    This puddle talk is certainly making my head hurt... It's almost as if it's just a TV show and we shouldn't put too much thought into it..... (preposterous suggestion I know )

    I wonder if there's a size limit to what can pass through the puddle before demolecularisation. For example if a very long organism went through the gate (the best example I can think of is the basilisk in harry potter...), would it hit a "wall" without fully being in the gate?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
    This puddle talk is certainly making my head hurt... It's almost as if it's just a TV show and we shouldn't put too much thought into it..... (preposterous suggestion I know )

    I wonder if there's a size limit to what can pass through the puddle before demolecularisation. For example if a very long organism went through the gate (the best example I can think of is the basilisk in harry potter...), would it hit a "wall" without fully being in the gate?
    Very preposterous indeed

    I think the best way to think of it, is the same way it's being shot on camera This way you ensure no inconsistencies

    So there's no limit, everything that happens once you crossed the threshold of that big anulus still exists and behaves the same (even when erased visually in post production). So even if you grab and hold on to something behind the gate and we can't see you, doesn't mean you can't do it!
    I guess if you put the gate against the wall, then there's a limit. The gate's location and surroundings matters somehow. Strange eh?

    And then "poof", you are turned into energy all at once (a process which apparently takes a few seconds) and thrown through a wormhole for 0.3 seconds on average.

    Thanks for the good laugh

  18. #18
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Can't we just say this is based on the Movie? It would solve all issues. I mean they used the Movie Gate and not the one from the Series.

  19. #19
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    Just a theoratical question. When Mitchell escaped through the stargate in the Continuum then he must have showed up in 1929 through the gate in Egypt on Earth. Was the gate digged out? It must have been, so how could nobody notice an incoming traveller? Or shall we treat this plothole as a new AU created while "Origins" plays in our normal reality?
    I've said it before, but for this reason I'm hoping they managed to get Ben Browder in the show

  20. #20
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    I doubt that he will be involved because then we have heard about it I believe and he should stay away from the gate to not cause any time paradox. I still hope to see him in the final scene of Origins if it ends up with the Achilleus. But if they plan to have a second season then maybe they will leave the transport out. Or if the second season could be laid in the USA then Paul McGillion could make a little cameo again as Ernest (even if he would look much older now).
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

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