SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

The shows have always described gate travel as being a hell of a wild wide. Lt. Hayley describes it as "a trip". Langford herself calls it "some piece of cake" in ToT. That to me implies that they've always been able to experience the actual gate travel as we the viewer sees it. The actual shot itself is meant to directly reference the first time Daniel steps through the gate in the film.

But if you're right, why would what they "see" change between season 8 and 9?

[Darren]

However much I would like to believe the transit can be seen, it just doesn't add up scientifically to start with. And contradicts every-time we see the characters acting like nothing happened in between, like sometime finishing one's sentence they started before entering. Nothing conscious can happen while you are in transit and only exist as pure energy. Contradict that, and to me it's like shattering my belief system. Scientific accuracy is a pillar of why Stargate is my favorite franchise. They were adamant to make everything as believable as possible, current to our current scientific knowledge. That's what made SGU so attractive to me in it's second season, when they revealed Destiny's mission. That was the epiphany moment to me that connected everything together, and everything was now making sense. So in-tune scientifically.

As SG-1 explored the physics of gate travel over the years I got the impression that one steps through the event horizon and back out the receiving gate more or less instantaneously -- though I'm not sure that was ever established. Transit time is measured in microseconds (or nanoseconds). Any canonical ref to this?

That said, characters have often talked about the astonishing experience of what gate travel feels like.

And there's definitely some creative license going on here, all the way back to the film. Think about Daniel's first trip: He pushed his face into the event horizon, and then opened his eyes. Even if you grant the idea that the wormhole could have pulled in the rest of his body, there's still an issue. Technically speaking the front half of his head (and brain) would have been demolecularized, while the rest was standing on the ramp in front of the gate. By what brain function did he open his eyes? For that matter, what "eyes" did he have to open?

The way that the puddle pass is shot is just creative license. It doesn't really work with wormhole physics as the show has come to establish them.

[DigiFluid]

Transit time is measured in microseconds (or nanoseconds). Any canonical ref to this?

I'm sure I remember Carter (because, who else?) rhyming off to someone the length of time travel takes, but damned if I can remember which episode. Red Sky, maybe?


edit; Oh, here we go! From your own site's Omnipedia, Darren

Ripple Effect - Carter explains that typical wormhole travel is not instantaneous. On average it takes approximately zero point three seconds.

[jerem]

That said, characters have often talked about the astonishing experience of what gate travel feels like.

And there's definitely some creative license going on here, all the way back to the film. Think about Daniel's first trip: He pushed his face into the event horizon, and then opened his eyes. Even if you grant the idea that the wormhole could have pulled in the rest of his body, there's still an issue. Technically speaking the front half of his head (and brain) would have been demolecularized, while the rest was standing on the ramp in front of the gate. By what brain function did he open his eyes? For that matter, what "eyes" did he have to open?

The way that the puddle pass is shot is just creative license. It doesn't really work with wormhole physics as the show has come to establish them.

Never had much problems with that part. The "stepping through the event horizon" always held a bit of mystery due to the fact that somehow, the demolecularization of the entire body would have to happen all at once. Think about what would happen if half your brain suddenly stopped to exist while you're halfway through the event horizon? Hard to explain how it's achieved in words, but can easily be represented visually by showing the "inside" of the gate, what it does virtually internally. Suppose your synapses at the back of your head commanded your eyes to open? Virtually what's shown is accurate, even if in practice it must be a hell of a lot more complex than that.

EDIT:
Beside, "48 hours" has shown us that the process by which the gate handles dematerializaton/reconstitution is completely separate to the wormhole part. They were able to get an event horizon without a wormhole to save Teal'c. I'm pointing this out to emphasize that the puddle and demolcularization is all a technological gate function, outside of physics law pertaining to wormholes that only transmits the energy.

[jerem]

I'm sure I remember Carter (because, who else?) rhyming off to someone the length of time travel takes, but damned if I can remember which episode. Red Sky, maybe?


edit; Oh, here we go! From your own site's Omnipedia, Darren

Yeah, when the Ripple Effect episode originally aired I thought it was contradicting "Red Sky" where the transit seemed much longer in Carter's simulations when she was trying to cut the wormhole while the raw element was in transit.
But you could always argue that the simulation was about full enter/exit time, and not just travel time, and the gate processes were taken into account. Thus it would mean that it takes seconds to dematerialize/materialize.

[Darren]

Oh, here we go! From your own site's Omnipedia, Darren

That's the one! Thanks for the ref. 0.3 seconds.

Yeah, when the Ripple Effect episode originally aired I thought it was contradicting "Red Sky" where the transit seemed much longer in Carter's simulations when she was trying to cut the wormhole while the raw element was in transit.

That's a good point. It served the story in "Red Sky" for the S.G.C. to have the ability to cut off the wormhole and "drop" something ahead of the destination. It could work, if the base computer (and wormhole physics) were precise enough ... say, to terminate the wormhole after 0.285 seconds.

Another thought:

We've seen people stick appendages through the event horizon and then pull them back. Now if I get down on my hands and knees and back into an active Stargate, can I consciously still make an effort to keep my fingertips holding onto the ramp? Could I pull myself back out of the event horizon if all that is left materialized are my fingertips?

Based on what I've seen on the shows I kinda want to say "Yes." But that would suggest that the event horizon doesn't back right up against the wormhole, so to speak. The Stargate's buffer protocols sit "between" the event horizon (where dematerialization happens) and actual transmission through the wormhole. This is why gates don't send an object until the entire thing has passed through (and why you can stick your arm in and pull it back out).

But if my brain and muscles are in the buffer while my fingertips are holding onto the ramp, it would suggest some degree of consciousness within the buffer itself ...

Now my head hurts.

[jerem]

Another thought:

We've seen people stick appendages through the event horizon and then pull them back. Now if I get down on my hands and knees and back into an active Stargate, can I consciously still make an effort to keep my fingertips holding onto the ramp? Could I pull myself back out of the event horizon if all that is left materialized are my fingertips?

Based on what I've seen on the shows I kinda want to say "Yes." But that would suggest that the event horizon doesn't back right up against the wormhole, so to speak. The Stargate's buffer protocols sit "between" the event horizon (where dematerialization happens) and actual transmission through the wormhole. This is why gates don't send an object until the entire thing has passed through (and why you can stick your arm in and pull it back out).

Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, but English being only my second language, you've put it way better than I ever could

But if my brain and muscles are in the buffer while my fingertips are holding onto the ramp, it would suggest some degree of consciousness within the buffer itself ...

Now my head hurts.

I purposely avoided the "consciousness within the buffer" part because my head was hurting too. Thanks (or rather no thanks ) for bringing it up officially

I've brought up two contradicting examples:

[In support of "no" consciousness when passed the event horizon]
From SGA's "Thirty-Eight Minutes". Lt. Ford is clearly not moving and unconscious while inside the puddle. His reaction after being pulled out by McKay and Teyla shows this.
LtFord.jpg

[In support "of" consciousness when passed the event horizon]
From SG-1's "Gemini", while Teal'c is trying to prevent replicarter from leaving, she clearly voluntarily step back out to make that angry face before "severing" the link with her arm.
RepliCarter.jpg
But worse even... Where does she gain her leverage from within the puddle to pull against Teal'c?

Yep, we've dug too deep to find consistencies at this level of details

However, to get back to the original question of whether you should see stars or not during transit, I still think this is complete BS what they did in SGO.

[knowles2]

Just a theoratical question. When Mitchell escaped through the stargate in the Continuum then he must have showed up in 1929 through the gate in Egypt on Earth. Was the gate digged out? It must have been, so how could nobody notice an incoming traveller? Or shall we treat this plothole as a new AU created while "Origins" plays in our normal reality?

Or Mitchell did what had to be done, he killed any of the witnesses who saw the gate activate. The rest just wrote the whole event of as a earthquake.

[Jedi_Master_Bra'tac]

This puddle talk is certainly making my head hurt... It's almost as if it's just a TV show and we shouldn't put too much thought into it..... (preposterous suggestion I know )

I wonder if there's a size limit to what can pass through the puddle before demolecularisation. For example if a very long organism went through the gate (the best example I can think of is the basilisk in harry potter...), would it hit a "wall" without fully being in the gate?

[jerem]

This puddle talk is certainly making my head hurt... It's almost as if it's just a TV show and we shouldn't put too much thought into it..... (preposterous suggestion I know )

I wonder if there's a size limit to what can pass through the puddle before demolecularisation. For example if a very long organism went through the gate (the best example I can think of is the basilisk in harry potter...), would it hit a "wall" without fully being in the gate?

Very preposterous indeed

I think the best way to think of it, is the same way it's being shot on camera This way you ensure no inconsistencies

So there's no limit, everything that happens once you crossed the threshold of that big anulus still exists and behaves the same (even when erased visually in post production). So even if you grab and hold on to something behind the gate and we can't see you, doesn't mean you can't do it!
I guess if you put the gate against the wall, then there's a limit. The gate's location and surroundings matters somehow. Strange eh?

And then "poof", you are turned into energy all at once (a process which apparently takes a few seconds) and thrown through a wormhole for 0.3 seconds on average.

Thanks for the good laugh

[Osiristi]

Again, I'm tingling with anticipation. And that's because I want to see if these next two episodes are where they start to explain all the continuity errors they have promised to explain, or if they leave it to the last episode to wrap it all up as a dream or something similar.

[lightsyder]

The latest mission files explain quite a bit

[jerem]

(I'm also not sold on the Goa'uld having cloning technology back in the 1930s ...)

I wasn't either... But according to the mission files for Episode 6 & 7, that's exactly what it is... Damn!

Didn't get it quite right in my original speculation however, but what's seems to be shaping is fully resolving the Aset/Isis identity as well as the continuity with the canopic jars found in 1931, 7 years prior to the events in SGO.

The banishment for eternity in canopic jars isn't "yet-to happen" as a consequence to creating a harsesis child. It HAS happened in the past, when Isis and her brothers Osiris and Seth were planning on overthrowing Ra. Since the banishment happened in the past and current Aset IS the clone, continuity seems ensured. The overthrow attempt just had to happen a long long time ago (aka before the gate in Egypt was buried).

Personally I see only 2 remaining inconsistencies that seem "unsolvable" at the moment:

* Dr. Langford and Catherine's memories of what transpired in SGO.
* Being able to "see" stars while traveling through a wormhole.

I fully expect the first to be resolved, seeing it's so obvious. The second one is a pure blunder. It can't be fixed or explained/rationalized.

[Elite Anubis Guard]

The episode 6 mission files mention retinal implants. I wonder if that's the reason for their yellow eyes.

[Supergater]

The latest mission files explain quite a bit

Can anyone provide a brief summary/important points of the mission file for episode 6 & 7 for those unfortunate people who can never get All Access, like me in Asia? I can forgo episode 4 & 5 (seems less important) but forum post here implied 6 & 7 mission file explained a great deal.