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  1. #41
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    I have found some filming errors:

    episode 4
    - the curtain behind the stargate is changing every scene

    episode 5
    - there are wheel tracks on the dune in the background
    - when they are walkking in the desert the footprints of the cameraman is already there in the sand in front of them
    Last edited by Platschu; February 26th, 2018 at 06:56 AM.
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  2. #42
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
    Yep, it's obvious now - all the gates we saw before were just dirty


    Couple of other things from this week's episodes:

    They could see stars when they went through the gate
    Should they? Did I misunderstand this scene? I was always under the impression that travellers were democularised on passing through the event horizon and re-assembled on the other end. So they shouldn't have seen anything. The gate travelling effect is just a visual thing for the audience.

    I guess they could have been referring to the point while their face is in the "water", just before demolecularisation.

    Goa'uld permanently glowing eyes
    We never saw this in the series, but I guess this isn't proof they can't


    The explanation for Aset/Isis is hinted at. She refers to her resurrection in the show, and the mission files said this



    If anyone is wondering how the Abydonians used the healing device:



    Anyone have any other nitpicks?
    Quote Originally Posted by jerem View Post
    Yeah, to me that's a HUGE dealbreaker regarding canonicity of SGO. Not only it goes against the basic laws of gate travel established in all previous iterations, it even contradicts "common sense" after seeing the demolecularization process in SGO itself. I'd love to see an explanation on how "energy" can have eyes that see!

    No, you didn't misunderstand the scene since she describe what she saw as "stars".
    If they were referring to things they "see" before demolecularization, then they should have included stars... The CGI animation of the vortex shows only blackness before movement/travelling starts.
    The shows have always described gate travel as being a hell of a wild wide. Lt. Hayley describes it as "a trip". Langford herself calls it "some piece of cake" in ToT. That to me implies that they've always been able to experience the actual gate travel as we the viewer sees it. The actual shot itself is meant to directly reference the first time Daniel steps through the gate in the film.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  3. #43
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Nobycane74 View Post
    [I]So Aset/Isis will send them back to Earth and have their minds wiped of the knowledge and recent experiences they have endured.

    Just my thought.
    Yes, this is the first, most obvious way of resolving the issues. Most of us don't really like a mind-wipe, it's too much of a cheat and implies that none of it has ever really happened, except for the viewers (us). It's like some series where a character simply wakes up, and then you learn that the whole last season you just watch meant nothing because it was a dream. We're hoping it's not gonna be resolved this way, but it looks more and more likely.

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    The shows have always described gate travel as being a hell of a wild wide. Lt. Hayley describes it as "a trip". Langford herself calls it "some piece of cake" in ToT. That to me implies that they've always been able to experience the actual gate travel as we the viewer sees it. The actual shot itself is meant to directly reference the first time Daniel steps through the gate in the film.
    I guess we have a very different reading of it.

    To me, a "wild ride" never implied more than meaning this is quite the experience to traverse the event horizon, nothing more. One second your stepping through the wall of water, the next second you're in a totally different setting. And I assume the process of disassembly and re-assembly at the other end must create a strange, wild feeling.
    As for the "piece of cake" part, it simply means that it's not complicated/difficult. Just walk through and that's it.

    However much I would like to believe the transit can be seen, it just doesn't add up scientifically to start with. And contradicts every-time we see the characters acting like nothing happened in between, like sometime finishing one's sentence they started before entering. Nothing conscious can happen while you are in transit and only exist as pure energy. Contradict that, and to me it's like shattering my belief system. Scientific accuracy is a pillar of why Stargate is my favorite franchise. They were adamant to make everything as believable as possible, current to our current scientific knowledge. That's what made SGU so attractive to me in it's second season, when they revealed Destiny's mission. That was the epiphany moment to me that connected everything together, and everything was now making sense. So in-tune scientifically.

    Please don't make me hate Stargate... Please! They managed 17 years so far where it all made sense. Don't stop now or shatter all that with a worthless web series.

    I realize it's not everyone who feels/believe as I do. I understand that. Just sharing my own views...

  4. #44
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by jerem View Post
    To me, a "wild ride" never implied more than meaning this is quite the experience to traverse the event horizon, nothing more. One second your stepping through the wall of water, the next second you're in a totally different setting. And I assume the process of disassembly and re-assembly at the other end must create a strange, wild feeling.
    Keep in mind that the Gate is not accounting for stellar drift, hence the frost and the shaky transit. it's entirely possible that this leads to strange experiences upon re-materialization.

    I think the "were those stars" line was more a nod that it's a "star" gate.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    Keep in mind that the Gate is not accounting for stellar drift, hence the frost and the shaky transit. it's entirely possible that this leads to strange experiences upon re-materialization.
    Yes, episode "Red Sky" supports this. Their wormhole was affected while passing through the star to the point they exited the gate quite violently, reminiscent of what used to happen before they corrected for stellar drift. They have no recollection of what happened during transit, they never saw themselves going through a star. They are oblivious until much later when Carter reasons that it's what must have happened during transit, passing through the star. All they know at first is that they existed the gate quite violently upon arrival.
    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    I think the "were those stars" line was more a nod that it's a "star" gate.
    I'm sorry, I don't follow.

  6. #46
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    The shows have always described gate travel as being a hell of a wild wide. Lt. Hayley describes it as "a trip". Langford herself calls it "some piece of cake" in ToT. That to me implies that they've always been able to experience the actual gate travel as we the viewer sees it. The actual shot itself is meant to directly reference the first time Daniel steps through the gate in the film.
    But if you're right, why would what they "see" change between season 8 and 9?

  7. #47
    The First One Darren's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by jerem View Post
    However much I would like to believe the transit can be seen, it just doesn't add up scientifically to start with. And contradicts every-time we see the characters acting like nothing happened in between, like sometime finishing one's sentence they started before entering. Nothing conscious can happen while you are in transit and only exist as pure energy. Contradict that, and to me it's like shattering my belief system. Scientific accuracy is a pillar of why Stargate is my favorite franchise. They were adamant to make everything as believable as possible, current to our current scientific knowledge. That's what made SGU so attractive to me in it's second season, when they revealed Destiny's mission. That was the epiphany moment to me that connected everything together, and everything was now making sense. So in-tune scientifically.
    As SG-1 explored the physics of gate travel over the years I got the impression that one steps through the event horizon and back out the receiving gate more or less instantaneously -- though I'm not sure that was ever established. Transit time is measured in microseconds (or nanoseconds). Any canonical ref to this?

    That said, characters have often talked about the astonishing experience of what gate travel feels like.

    And there's definitely some creative license going on here, all the way back to the film. Think about Daniel's first trip: He pushed his face into the event horizon, and then opened his eyes. Even if you grant the idea that the wormhole could have pulled in the rest of his body, there's still an issue. Technically speaking the front half of his head (and brain) would have been demolecularized, while the rest was standing on the ramp in front of the gate. By what brain function did he open his eyes? For that matter, what "eyes" did he have to open?

    The way that the puddle pass is shot is just creative license. It doesn't really work with wormhole physics as the show has come to establish them.


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  8. #48
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren View Post
    Transit time is measured in microseconds (or nanoseconds). Any canonical ref to this?
    I'm sure I remember Carter (because, who else?) rhyming off to someone the length of time travel takes, but damned if I can remember which episode. Red Sky, maybe?


    edit; Oh, here we go! From your own site's Omnipedia, Darren

    Ripple Effect - Carter explains that typical wormhole travel is not instantaneous. On average it takes approximately zero point three seconds.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  9. #49
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren View Post
    That said, characters have often talked about the astonishing experience of what gate travel feels like.

    And there's definitely some creative license going on here, all the way back to the film. Think about Daniel's first trip: He pushed his face into the event horizon, and then opened his eyes. Even if you grant the idea that the wormhole could have pulled in the rest of his body, there's still an issue. Technically speaking the front half of his head (and brain) would have been demolecularized, while the rest was standing on the ramp in front of the gate. By what brain function did he open his eyes? For that matter, what "eyes" did he have to open?

    The way that the puddle pass is shot is just creative license. It doesn't really work with wormhole physics as the show has come to establish them.
    Never had much problems with that part. The "stepping through the event horizon" always held a bit of mystery due to the fact that somehow, the demolecularization of the entire body would have to happen all at once. Think about what would happen if half your brain suddenly stopped to exist while you're halfway through the event horizon? Hard to explain how it's achieved in words, but can easily be represented visually by showing the "inside" of the gate, what it does virtually internally. Suppose your synapses at the back of your head commanded your eyes to open? Virtually what's shown is accurate, even if in practice it must be a hell of a lot more complex than that.

    EDIT:
    Beside, "48 hours" has shown us that the process by which the gate handles dematerializaton/reconstitution is completely separate to the wormhole part. They were able to get an event horizon without a wormhole to save Teal'c. I'm pointing this out to emphasize that the puddle and demolcularization is all a technological gate function, outside of physics law pertaining to wormholes that only transmits the energy.
    Last edited by jerem; February 26th, 2018 at 05:54 AM.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    I'm sure I remember Carter (because, who else?) rhyming off to someone the length of time travel takes, but damned if I can remember which episode. Red Sky, maybe?


    edit; Oh, here we go! From your own site's Omnipedia, Darren
    Yeah, when the Ripple Effect episode originally aired I thought it was contradicting "Red Sky" where the transit seemed much longer in Carter's simulations when she was trying to cut the wormhole while the raw element was in transit.
    But you could always argue that the simulation was about full enter/exit time, and not just travel time, and the gate processes were taken into account. Thus it would mean that it takes seconds to dematerialize/materialize.

  11. #51
    The First One Darren's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Oh, here we go! From your own site's Omnipedia, Darren
    That's the one! Thanks for the ref. 0.3 seconds.

    Quote Originally Posted by jerem View Post
    Yeah, when the Ripple Effect episode originally aired I thought it was contradicting "Red Sky" where the transit seemed much longer in Carter's simulations when she was trying to cut the wormhole while the raw element was in transit.
    That's a good point. It served the story in "Red Sky" for the S.G.C. to have the ability to cut off the wormhole and "drop" something ahead of the destination. It could work, if the base computer (and wormhole physics) were precise enough ... say, to terminate the wormhole after 0.285 seconds.

    Another thought:

    We've seen people stick appendages through the event horizon and then pull them back. Now if I get down on my hands and knees and back into an active Stargate, can I consciously still make an effort to keep my fingertips holding onto the ramp? Could I pull myself back out of the event horizon if all that is left materialized are my fingertips?

    Based on what I've seen on the shows I kinda want to say "Yes." But that would suggest that the event horizon doesn't back right up against the wormhole, so to speak. The Stargate's buffer protocols sit "between" the event horizon (where dematerialization happens) and actual transmission through the wormhole. This is why gates don't send an object until the entire thing has passed through (and why you can stick your arm in and pull it back out).

    But if my brain and muscles are in the buffer while my fingertips are holding onto the ramp, it would suggest some degree of consciousness within the buffer itself ...

    Now my head hurts.


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  12. #52
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren View Post
    Another thought:

    We've seen people stick appendages through the event horizon and then pull them back. Now if I get down on my hands and knees and back into an active Stargate, can I consciously still make an effort to keep my fingertips holding onto the ramp? Could I pull myself back out of the event horizon if all that is left materialized are my fingertips?

    Based on what I've seen on the shows I kinda want to say "Yes." But that would suggest that the event horizon doesn't back right up against the wormhole, so to speak. The Stargate's buffer protocols sit "between" the event horizon (where dematerialization happens) and actual transmission through the wormhole. This is why gates don't send an object until the entire thing has passed through (and why you can stick your arm in and pull it back out).
    Yeah, that's what I was trying to say, but English being only my second language, you've put it way better than I ever could

    Quote Originally Posted by Darren View Post
    But if my brain and muscles are in the buffer while my fingertips are holding onto the ramp, it would suggest some degree of consciousness within the buffer itself ...

    Now my head hurts.
    I purposely avoided the "consciousness within the buffer" part because my head was hurting too. Thanks (or rather no thanks ) for bringing it up officially

    I've brought up two contradicting examples:

    [In support of "no" consciousness when passed the event horizon]
    From SGA's "Thirty-Eight Minutes". Lt. Ford is clearly not moving and unconscious while inside the puddle. His reaction after being pulled out by McKay and Teyla shows this.
    LtFord.jpg

    [In support "of" consciousness when passed the event horizon]
    From SG-1's "Gemini", while Teal'c is trying to prevent replicarter from leaving, she clearly voluntarily step back out to make that angry face before "severing" the link with her arm.
    RepliCarter.jpg
    But worse even... Where does she gain her leverage from within the puddle to pull against Teal'c?

    Yep, we've dug too deep to find consistencies at this level of details

    However, to get back to the original question of whether you should see stars or not during transit, I still think this is complete BS what they did in SGO.

  13. #53
    Colonel knowles2's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    Just a theoratical question. When Mitchell escaped through the stargate in the Continuum then he must have showed up in 1929 through the gate in Egypt on Earth. Was the gate digged out? It must have been, so how could nobody notice an incoming traveller? Or shall we treat this plothole as a new AU created while "Origins" plays in our normal reality?
    Or Mitchell did what had to be done, he killed any of the witnesses who saw the gate activate. The rest just wrote the whole event of as a earthquake.

  14. #54
    Lieutenant Colonel Jedi_Master_Bra'tac's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    This puddle talk is certainly making my head hurt... It's almost as if it's just a TV show and we shouldn't put too much thought into it..... (preposterous suggestion I know )

    I wonder if there's a size limit to what can pass through the puddle before demolecularisation. For example if a very long organism went through the gate (the best example I can think of is the basilisk in harry potter...), would it hit a "wall" without fully being in the gate?

  15. #55
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
    This puddle talk is certainly making my head hurt... It's almost as if it's just a TV show and we shouldn't put too much thought into it..... (preposterous suggestion I know )

    I wonder if there's a size limit to what can pass through the puddle before demolecularisation. For example if a very long organism went through the gate (the best example I can think of is the basilisk in harry potter...), would it hit a "wall" without fully being in the gate?
    Very preposterous indeed

    I think the best way to think of it, is the same way it's being shot on camera This way you ensure no inconsistencies

    So there's no limit, everything that happens once you crossed the threshold of that big anulus still exists and behaves the same (even when erased visually in post production). So even if you grab and hold on to something behind the gate and we can't see you, doesn't mean you can't do it!
    I guess if you put the gate against the wall, then there's a limit. The gate's location and surroundings matters somehow. Strange eh?

    And then "poof", you are turned into energy all at once (a process which apparently takes a few seconds) and thrown through a wormhole for 0.3 seconds on average.

    Thanks for the good laugh

  16. #56
    Second Lieutenant Osiristi's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Again, I'm tingling with anticipation. And that's because I want to see if these next two episodes are where they start to explain all the continuity errors they have promised to explain, or if they leave it to the last episode to wrap it all up as a dream or something similar.

  17. #57
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    The latest mission files explain quite a bit

  18. #58
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by GateWorld View Post
    (I'm also not sold on the Goa'uld having cloning technology back in the 1930s ...)
    I wasn't either... But according to the mission files for Episode 6 & 7, that's exactly what it is... Damn!

    Didn't get it quite right in my original speculation however, but what's seems to be shaping is fully resolving the Aset/Isis identity as well as the continuity with the canopic jars found in 1931, 7 years prior to the events in SGO.

    The banishment for eternity in canopic jars isn't "yet-to happen" as a consequence to creating a harsesis child. It HAS happened in the past, when Isis and her brothers Osiris and Seth were planning on overthrowing Ra. Since the banishment happened in the past and current Aset IS the clone, continuity seems ensured. The overthrow attempt just had to happen a long long time ago (aka before the gate in Egypt was buried).

    Personally I see only 2 remaining inconsistencies that seem "unsolvable" at the moment:

    * Dr. Langford and Catherine's memories of what transpired in SGO.
    * Being able to "see" stars while traveling through a wormhole.

    I fully expect the first to be resolved, seeing it's so obvious. The second one is a pure blunder. It can't be fixed or explained/rationalized.

  19. #59
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    The episode 6 mission files mention retinal implants. I wonder if that's the reason for their yellow eyes.

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    Default Re: SGO Apparent Continuity Contradictions - Explanations and Speculation (SPOILERS)

    Quote Originally Posted by lightsyder View Post
    The latest mission files explain quite a bit
    Can anyone provide a brief summary/important points of the mission file for episode 6 & 7 for those unfortunate people who can never get All Access, like me in Asia? I can forgo episode 4 & 5 (seems less important) but forum post here implied 6 & 7 mission file explained a great deal.

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