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  1. #1721
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    Well, considering the progress of the pandemic, everything kind of stopped. I am actually thinking of starting my own SG board later this year or early next year in order to give Stargate an interest boost.

  2. #1722
    Major General planet_tv's Avatar
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    It could also be that one ad, in the lower right corner, that appears just about everywhere too.


    Signs by Scifan and me. | My Forum - Planet TV Role Play | My Fan Fiction | My Mini City - Rygel City

  3. #1723
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    Quote Originally Posted by Mnikolic View Post
    Well, considering the progress of the pandemic, everything kind of stopped. I am actually thinking of starting my own SG board later this year or early next year in order to give Stargate an interest boost.
    I don't think the pandemic makes much difference to whatever is/was happening as far as Stargate is concerned, considering that was still nothing.

    Of course, it might throw a wrench in Wyvern Gaming's plans.
    Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
    Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 8 of SG-1
    First time time watching Star Trek: The Adventures of Captain Kirk and his Trusted Sidekick, Mr. Spock

  4. #1724
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    If Apple doesn't get the subscribers, it won't last long with them either.

    Streaming services need subscribers to survive. If series don't pull in the money, they are not worth continuing. That's the formula of any streaming service.
    There are actually two major differences.

    The first is the Apple TV+ is a division within a larger company, so they don't need to be as hyper focused on short term profits. Netflix's entire business model relies on subscriber revenue, while the majority of their business expenses go to licensing, production, and advertising costs. Showing strong quarterly earnings are important and to do that they consistently, they have to carefully manage subscriber growth while strategically cutting spending. For Netflix there's no better way to do that than to cancel original programming that is getting more expensive to produce and replacing it with cheaper programmer. For Apple, their streaming service is a side project that they hope will lead to profits down the road, not just through subscribers but by making their hardware a more appealing buy. Hence they offer a whole year free if you buy an Apple device rather than just a month. They want people to pay for the service when their trial is over, but they also want to encourage people to buy into Apple as a brand.

    The second is that Apple TV+ is in a growth stage. Right now they're willing to spend more on shows and keep them around longer than they would if they were in Netflix's position because they're not yet making money on the service. If they were independently profitable, they could be more surgical in their approach, but thee bar is lower at the moment. If something does reasonably well, they're not going to ax it because they don't have a large body of original content to fall back on, which means it's harder for them to maintain and grow their subscriber base. It's also significantly more of a gamble to invest in a replacement when the number of shows you have is lower.

    This translates to network TV as well. Top networks rarely give shows room to try to grow an audience beyond a season because they rather try to replace it with something new They know many of the pilots they fund will never air and a good chunk of new shows won't make it beyond the first season and that's okay because they have dozens of successful programs on the air. For a smaller network with only a handful of shows, cutting 1 or 2 shows and trying to develop an unknown replacement is a much riskier proposition. Consequently, there are many classic shows that only found success because they originally aired on up and coming networks. Some of them had lackluster first and second seasons, but they were given an opportunity to rework things that they likely wouldn't have at a bigger outlet.

    Simply, the bar is lower for Stargate on a steaming platform that is trying to achieve profitability than a well established one. Stargate has to be a huge hit for Netflix to keep around, but it only has to be a decent hit on a smaller service.
    Last edited by Xaeden; April 17th, 2020 at 02:39 AM.

  5. #1725
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    Quote Originally Posted by Xaeden View Post
    ...but they also want to encourage people to buy into Apple as a brand.
    Apple is for snobs...

    With that said... Netflix is available everywhere (except for North-Korea).

    There's no other streaming service that even remotely has that big of a reach, or bothers to have that reach.

    Except for illegal streaming perhaps... they are everywhere.
    Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
    Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 8 of SG-1
    First time time watching Star Trek: The Adventures of Captain Kirk and his Trusted Sidekick, Mr. Spock

  6. #1726
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    What Xaeden says makes sense. Stargate needs to undergo a trial on a smaller service and work its way up to a bigger one. There's also a good reason for it - if you bring back a successful franchise onto a streaming service, it is important to:

    1. Test the waters first and see if there is still audience interest.
    2a. If there is little to no interest, no-one is going to be spending even a sammler amount of finances to start and/or keep the project going.
    2b. If there is interest and if that interest doesn't fade away over a short period of time, than the franchise does have a chance.
    3. A new Stargate series must be done right. Which means hiring the right people to do it. Which means even more and even larger checks to pay. That , of course, lowers the actual available budget for the filming of new SG content.
    4. If a new SG series is done right, it must gain the right space in order to survive. Which means that the streaming service stands behind it 110 %. But to give the new series a space, that means working with a limited budget and NOT going over it like JM/BW/RC/MG did in the past.

    If SG does come back in any form, I think we can expect something alike SG-1 S01 where not even the producers knew what to do with the franchise. So if any sort of continuation of the TV stuff happens, it won't be in the production shape like the SG franchise was during its final few seasons.
    Last edited by Mnikolic; April 17th, 2020 at 08:10 AM.

  7. #1727
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    Apple is for snobs...

    With that said... Netflix is available everywhere (except for North-Korea).

    There's no other streaming service that even remotely has that big of a reach, or bothers to have that reach.

    Except for illegal streaming perhaps... they are everywhere.
    Apple is just an example. The point is that Netflix has not been a good place for long form storytelling, so a Stargate show would have a better chance of making it beyond 2-3 seasons on an smaller platform. If MGM opted not to sell and instead created their own streaming platform, I'd also have higher hopes for a Stargate spin-off doing well as it would be a top show for them. On Netflix, it's possible it would be a breakout hit, but it's most likely that it would be treated a disposable and easy to replace niche offering.

    I completely understand that your chief concern is being able to watch things as they come out because you don't want to have to deal with spoilers, but for me it's about sitting down in 10 years and having a complete story to immerse myself in. I'm certainly not going to buy Apple TV+ either, and therefore would have to wait or use other methods to see a hypothetical Apple TV+ show, but I'm okay with that because I'm far less interested in investing in storylines that are going to get cut short. I do get that that's the nature of most TV, but there are certain networks and platforms that are particularly prolific at shortchanging viewers. For a period, Fox was considered the worst offender, the Sci Fi channel suddenly couldn't program their way out of a paper bag around 2006 and started dropping shows left and right as a result, and now it's Netflix that's particularly problematic simply because their business model is not friendly to most long forms of storytelling.

    I do hope that changes in the future, though, as it would be a monumental shame if the only way we could have long running TV programs is on up and coming platforms and network TV since those are not going to be viable options forever. It's therefore critical for us viewers who want 5-7 + season shows that streaming platforms find a way to be profitable while nurturing their second tier offerings.
    Last edited by Xaeden; April 18th, 2020 at 12:27 PM.

  8. #1728
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    Good points right there. A Stargate spin-off needs more than 2-3 seasons in order to tell its story. SGA and SGU (especially the latter) are a definite proof of that.

  9. #1729
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    Actually even a tv movie can tell a story as that is the reason scripts are written. You don't need a complete season for it. But it depends on the writers if they have found out enough material to fill a tv movie, mini series or even longer season. And while I love character centric episodes, I am more interested in hardcore story telling and lore expansions. It would have been nice if the episodes could have been supported with official, in-canon materials (like briefing logs or reports, epidose summaries) where fans could have collected extra informations. But then the problem would be what was mentioned onscreen or offscreen then how can the audience follow the story if some key plots were revealed in such materials. This step has caused the confusion with the "Catherine" movie too. We also had so many episodes which were "wasted" for budget reasons when they had to spare money so desperately that not even the full cast couldn't show up in every episodes or they couldn't afford a proper CGI wormhole effect anymore. So I am in favor of series of tv movies or shorter seasons where 2-4-6-10 episodes serves an anthology type of storytelling. The DVD movies would have been great as such individual adventures could be distributed easier to other countries.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

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  10. #1730
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    A streaming service will most certainly produce shorter seasons, and I agree that 10-13 episodes is plenty to tell a season's main story. Saying that I want more than 2-3 seasons has nothing to do with the episode count. Rather, it's entirely about seeing a multi-season storyline play out. Two seasons of 20 total episodes is not enough time to introduce a new set of Stargate characters, a galactic problem, and then bring them and their problem to a resolution in a satisfying way. Five seasons of 50 total episodes could be because, as you said, many episodes in past 20-22 Stargate seasons are one-offs and/or fillers.

    Also at issue is that nobody actually plans a 2-3 season storyline when designing a new show. They go into it hoping for more and than get canceled early. Even though Netflix's business model makes moving forward with 4th and 5th seasons cost prohibitive in a lot of cases, they're not sitting down with show creators and telling them to envision a shorter overall arc for their characters and stories. Instead, they're surprising them with cancelations after shooting on the most recent season has wrapped.

    A movie featuring a one-off adventure or clearly defined mini-series would be a great and a different matter entirely, particularly if old cast members are used. It doesn't make financial sense to build the needed sets for a straight-to-DVD or TV movie, but Netflix is investing theatrical level budgets into its original movies, so they are probably the best avenue for getting a one-off produced.

  11. #1731
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    Two seasons of 20 total episodes is not enough time to introduce a new set of Stargate characters, a galactic problem, and then bring them and their problem to a resolution in a satisfying way. Five seasons of 50 total episodes could be because, as you said, many episodes in past 20-22 Stargate seasons are one-offs and/or fillers."

    I disagree. They can create memorable characters, character moments, nice conversations and a story plot in a sitcom in less than 22 minutes. Then don't tell me they can not do such things in 40 episodes, because then it is simply badly planned and written. Even a mini series would have a betterv alue of set costs, while the anthology type of storysteling could help to tell bigger stories (lik a six episode long Vanir arc or post-Ori or Nox or Rhee'tou etc.) Nothing is wrong with fillers or standalones in longer seasons as long as they serve some kind of storytelling or lore building. But the TV and the scifi genre have evolved, we can't have that kuxury anymore that you start a long term plot or character arc which is randomly solved seasons later as it will be left unfinished after cancellation.

    I really liked the first seasons as they have tried to tell standalone stories with movie quality efforts. Imagine what they could achieve now with bigger budgets and digital sets / exotic shooting locations or the combination of the two. That is the type of "nextgenSG" what I would like to see where they could show really odd lookking worlds with imagination and modern technology. This show is about entering strange new worlds through a doorway, so it would be time to give the audience an SG show where not only pine forests exist.

    We have talked many timss that the good example is Star Trek, where hardly 3-4 episodes / season are offset, but they still manage to maintain an interesting story and good character developments with hightech vfx support. Now they are planning 3-5 spinoffs as the audience is hungry for more adventures. The same could be reached with the Stargate franchise.
    Last edited by Platschu; April 20th, 2020 at 10:52 AM.

  12. #1732
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    I disagree. They can create memorable characters, character moments, nice conversations and a story plot in a sitcom in less than 22 minutes. Then don't tell me they can not do such things in 40 episodes, because then it is simply badly planned and written.
    To be clear, I meant 20 episodes total, not 20 episodes per season, so I in no way said they cannot do that in 40 episodes.

    Even a mini series would have a betterv alue of set costs, while the anthology type of storysteling could help to tell bigger stories (lik a six episode long Vanir arc or post-Ori or Nox or Rhee'tou etc.) Nothing is wrong with fillers or standalones in longer seasons as long as they serve some kind of storytelling or lore building. But the TV and the scifi genre have evolved, we can't have that kuxury anymore that you start a long term plot or character arc which is randomly solved seasons later as it will be left unfinished after cancellation.
    I in no way argued that a mini series or anthology show isn't doable either. The thing is that when someone creates a mini series, anthology, or movie they know what their time limitations are and are able to craft a story within those confines. If what you really want to see moving forward is a mini series or a couple of movies, I think Netflix is a great place for that.

    However, you are conflating your advocacy for anthologies and mini series with the issue I took with 2-3 season shows. My problem is that nobody is crafting 2-3 season and done overarching storylines and no network or streaming service is telling creators to aim for that number. Rather, writers on Netflix shows are having their visions cut short and Netflix is not preparing them for early ends because they are hoping that a show will turn out to be successful enough to keep pumping out seasons (as happened in the case of "Stranger Things") even though that's rarely the case. As a result, writers are having the shows canceled at the last minute with little to no notice and fans are often left hanging.

    I do also think 2-3 seasons is a difficult number to tell a long form story in, especially for something like Stargate. A mini series can work because the scope is narrow, but once you get beyond that first season on a show about running all over a galaxy, you're going to get heavy into world building and character development. Giving viewers a satisfying conclusion to all the threads that will inevitably come out of a 2nd or 3rd season is very difficult.

    Again, though, it depends on what you're trying to do. Some long form story ideas are easier to wrap up in a shorter time frame than others. The problem with Stargate is that, yes, it's possible to successfully focus on a self contained problem that is limited to an episode or the number of episodes in a mini series, but when moving into multiple seasons of an overarching story (not to be confused with multiple seasons of an anthology show or an entirely/almost entirely episodic program), the scope has to (at least) be galactic in nature and once that happens 2-3 seasons is simply insufficient to wrap up everything that the writers are trying to do.

    I really liked the first seasons as they have tried to tell standalone stories with movie quality efforts. Imagine what they could achieve now with bigger budgets and digital sets / exotic shooting locations or the combination of the two. That is the type of "nextgenSG" what I would like to see where they could show really odd lookking worlds with imagination and modern technology. This show is about entering strange new worlds through a doorway, so it would be time to give the audience an SG show where not only pine forests exist.
    SGU's first season and Sg-1's two "first" seasons (1 and 9) I thought were rather clunky because they struggled with everything they had to setup and took time to find their footing. That seems to be the general consensus. Stargate Atlantis had a really good first season, but it was good, in large part, because of everything it seemed to be building toward.

    It is certainly possible to create a good one season and done TV program as that's what a mini series is. I think Jessica Jones could've been that. It had a nice, tightly focused first season that brought its main character's development to a satisfying conclusion and also nicely concluded its villain's arc. After that, everything felt like extended content. It was comparable to how a show will plot a 5 season arc and then start fresh because the network doesn't want them to give up the gravy train. It's nice (if done right), but not necessary.

    We have talked many timss that the good example is Star Trek, where hardly 3-4 episodes / season are offset, but they still manage to maintain an interesting story and good character developments with hightech vfx support. Now they are planning 3-5 spinoffs as the audience is hungry for more adventures.
    I very much dislike how extremely episodic Star Trek has been in the past. Stargate has been plenty episodic itself, but I think it does a far superior job of blending episodic stories with season and multi-season arcs. I would not be here commenting on Stargate all these years later had it followed Star Trek's earlier format.

    The sams could be reached with the Stargate franchise.
    And you can have a diversity of formats. There could be a mini series, anthology show, and a long form spin-off. Just not on Netflix because they'll do the first two very well and shortchange viewers on the third (unless it turns out to be a massive, surprise hit).
    Last edited by Xaeden; April 20th, 2020 at 06:14 PM.

  13. #1733
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
    The truth isn't the truth

  14. #1734
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: MGM Open To More Stargate Depending on Success of Stargate Origins and SGC

    Xaeden -- my apologies for my snippiness earlier... (still think Apple is for snobs)... I may have been in the wrong mood to answer.
    Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum
    Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 8 of SG-1
    First time time watching Star Trek: The Adventures of Captain Kirk and his Trusted Sidekick, Mr. Spock

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