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  1. #1
    Airman Flash525's Avatar
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    Earth Symbol Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Whilst I don't know a whole lot about Origins (I don't think anyone does - do they?) I do wonder, based on what I have read (in that it's a prequel, and more focusing on the life of Catherine Langford before the elements of space travel, the Goa'uld and the Asgard) I can't help but wonder whether a reboot would have been the way to go?

    I know production and such cost quite a bit back then, one of the reasons we commonly saw the various Jaffa without their respective headgear, but when I think of all the other possibilities and the other Goa'uld System Lords, and the other head gear and costumes we could have seen, and then think about how much easier and cost effective it could be, I do wonder what they could do with the Goa'uld from a modern production.

    Who wouldn't want to see Bast Guard, or Ram Guard? Who wouldn't want to see a vast selection of Goa'uld type ships? Imagine a fleet where each God has ships of different design? May be a bit much, but would beat always seeing Ha'ak type vessels.

    https://i.pinimg.com/736x/95/26/0b/9...23cdcb0b70.jpg
    https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net...20131114175104

    But yeah, I guess my ultimate question is whether people would prefer a reboot, or a prequel? I'm sure the prequel will do well; lets face it, a new Stargate project has been a long time coming, and the Star Trek prequel seems to be doing quite well, so I have no doubt that Origins will shine, I just ponder whether it was the right decision by the studio.

  2. #2
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash525 View Post
    But yeah, I guess my ultimate question is whether people would prefer a reboot, or a prequel? I'm sure the prequel will do well; lets face it, a new Stargate project has been a long time coming, and the Star Trek prequel seems to be doing quite well, so I have no doubt that Origins will shine, I just ponder whether it was the right decision by the studio.
    It won't shine the way you think it'll shine. It's 10 episodes of 10 minutes -- basically a 100 minute film with a beginning, a middle and an ending. It's one story chopped up into eety-beety-tiny bits for easy streaming.

    And here comes the good part (depends on what side of the access you're on of course): It's not available for all stargate fans. It's restricted to the USA, the UK, Canada, Germany, Australia & New Zealand. The rest of us can not watch it. Therefore, the audience is set. No new audience to bring in for higher viewing numbers, no garnering interest (as MGM once claimed).
    This isn't anything like Star Trek Discovery, which has a full season of full episodes, of stories and a story that runs through several episodes. I have that Star Trek sitting on my harddrive at the moment (hadn't had time to watch any of it -- too much other stuff -- heck only just finished The Guest Book and those episode are only 20 minutes long).

    As to the original question: reboot vs Origins story

    I don't want a reboot. A new show, taking place in yet another part of the galaxy or dealing with --- I don't know the four great races, like a miniseries. Sure, bring it on. And if it can be more exploring by a team -- sure, that can maybe be interesting too, as long as they hand it all over to a fresh set of eyes and ears and not the former PTB. Bring in some new blood and let them have a run with it.

    Origins stories risk retconning the existing timelines and series -- and they are clearly only made to make a quick buck and to divide the fandom.
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  3. #3
    Airman Flash525's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    It won't shine the way you think it'll shine. It's 10 episodes of 10 minutes -- basically a 100 minute film with a beginning, a middle and an ending. It's one story chopped up into eety-beety-tiny bits for easy streaming.
    Oh I already knew that, though I [expected]? that if it did well, it would pave the way for an actual series, though I didn't know it was to be a restrictive audience.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    I don't want a reboot. A new show, taking place in yet another part of the galaxy or dealing with --- I don't know the four great races, like a miniseries. Sure, bring it on. And if it can be more exploring by a team -- sure, that can maybe be interesting too, as long as they hand it all over to a fresh set of eyes and ears and not the former PTB. Bring in some new blood and let them have a run with it.
    I suppose this would be one of those miniseries? Just a very short one! I think that was one of the problems we (or at least I) had with SGU; whilst I didn't mind the show - especially it's second series, I did fear it was too much of a leap. The third series should have simply been set in another galaxy, with new threats to face and new adventures to go on, one that preferably wouldn't end up with countless humanoid offshoots, and not on a ship that's jumping through galaxies.

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    Origins stories risk retconning the existing timelines and series -- and they are clearly only made to make a quick buck and to divide the fandom.
    I guess not only that, but at some point the origin story has to catch up with existing set timeline, which can't really be changed.

    I would certainly be on board for a miniseries though; either one about the four great races, or one focusing on the Atlantians/Alterans and their war with the Wraith.

  4. #4
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Flash525 View Post
    But yeah, I guess my ultimate question is whether people would prefer a reboot, or a prequel? I'm sure the prequel will do well; lets face it, a new Stargate project has been a long time coming, and the Star Trek prequel seems to be doing quite well, so I have no doubt that Origins will shine, I just ponder whether it was the right decision by the studio.
    I would like to see a reboot. I hate the whole "Asgard core" copout, and prefer the original premise - a group of people like us, exploring the universe. The use of starships was quite cool, but things like convenient intergalactic travel took a lot of sting out of SGA, while the Core made any issue too easy (have a problem? pose a question to the Core, and it'll solve it for you. Doesn't even need knowledge of the subject). God, AOT opened up such a can of worms with that.

    I see no other way but to restart fresh.

  5. #5
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    You know, they should have kept Atlantis cut off from Earth for far longer... maybe that would have sparked some new ideas.

    But something I forgot earlier... What if Origins is the idea of a reboot? It does start all the way back from the beginning. It starts fresh. What if this is MGM's plan all along, and Stargate Origins is to 2018 what Stargate was to 1994. And there's going to be a Jonathan Glassner out there who'll maybe want to turn it into a tv-show and well... ignore all we've learned in the old shows and begin anew. Or change the story and take it some place else, like Battlestar Galactica maybe.
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  6. #6
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jedi_Master_Bra'tac View Post
    It's important to remember that Origins I supposed to exist within the established SG1verse canon. It's not supposed to ret con anything...
    Much like "For the fans" doesn't actually mean all the fans, I'm fairly certain that's probably not going to mean definitely established in SG-1-canon.
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  7. #7
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    But something I forgot earlier... What if Origins is the idea of a reboot? It does start all the way back from the beginning. It starts fresh. What if this is MGM's plan all along, and Stargate Origins is to 2018 what Stargate was to 1994. And there's going to be a Jonathan Glassner out there who'll maybe want to turn it into a tv-show and well... ignore all we've learned in the old shows and begin anew. Or change the story and take it some place else, like Battlestar Galactica maybe.
    I was interested in seeing what Emmerich and Devlin would have done with their rebooted film series. I've got all the Bill McCay books which where in part inspired by their original plans and I really enjoyed them. I liked the different take on the material.

    I wouldn't have minded them outright saying this was a reboot/relaunch either. They've shot themselves in the foot with saying it's supposed to fit in with the mainline continuity and without anyone knowing the full story details we've got people like myself who are like "how is this supposed to work" or the more reactionary who are like "this will never work! It'll ruin Stargate!"

    And on the flipside of that, if they didn't say it was connected to mainline continuity there's those in the fanbase who just wouldn't be interested.

    Regardless, I'm going to watch it and then judge.

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  8. #8
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard View Post
    I was interested in seeing what Emmerich and Devlin would have done with their rebooted film series. I've got all the Bill McCay books which where in part inspired by their original plans and I really enjoyed them. I liked the different take on the material.
    Maybe who knows they'll get another shot at it... some day. I'm certainly interested in seeing what they wanted to do with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard View Post
    I wouldn't have minded them outright saying this was a reboot/relaunch either. They've shot themselves in the foot with saying it's supposed to fit in with the mainline continuity and without anyone knowing the full story details we've got people like myself who are like "how is this supposed to work" or the more reactionary who are like "this will never work! It'll ruin Stargate!"
    I would prefer it they are being straight up honest, but experience tells me that's going to happen or would have happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard View Post
    And on the flipside of that, if they didn't say it was connected to mainline continuity there's those in the fanbase who just wouldn't be interested.
    Because they don't have to be interested. To each their own.
    Just because it says stargate in the title, doesn't mean we have to like it or watch it (if, you know, we could) -- it just indicates the franchise -- Star Trek or Star Wars. It's a brand -- I mean, I don't like every coffee that comes out Starbuck either, or drink every coffee of theirs.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard View Post
    Regardless, I'm going to watch it and then judge.
    Just don't spoil it, that's all I'm gonna ask.
    I've unfollowed every Stargate twitter account, including Gateworld, minimizing the chances of getting it thrown in my face. And I don't follow that many people who are stargate fans so that should be okay (at least not people who can actually watch it ).
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  9. #9
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Maybe who knows they'll get another shot at it... some day. I'm certainly interested in seeing what they wanted to do with it.
    After the performance of ID42 I don't think it's going to be likely. :/

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    Because they don't have to be interested. To each their own.
    Just because it says stargate in the title, doesn't mean we have to like it or watch it (if, you know, we could) -- it just indicates the franchise -- Star Trek or Star Wars. It's a brand -- I mean, I don't like every coffee that comes out Starbuck either, or drink every coffee of theirs.
    Of course not, but I also think just because it's not a continuation of SG1 or Atlantis or whatever shouldn't just disqualify it off the bat. There's a lot to what Stargate is or can be. I'd just rather taste the drink first and then decide. Otherwise how will I actually know.

    Just don't spoil it, that's all I'm gonna ask.
    Not to sound callous but you should keep out of threads in the sub-board with Spoiler in the title or the specific episode threads if you don't wish to be spoiled. It's unfair to expect people not to talk about specifics of the show, especially when the warning is up there on the very title.

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  10. #10
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard View Post
    I was interested in seeing what Emmerich and Devlin would have done with their rebooted film series. I've got all the Bill McCay books which where in part inspired by their original plans and I really enjoyed them. I liked the different take on the material.
    Me too. It's interesting to think what they'd have done with it. If Stargate is to be popular again, it definitely needs a fresh take.

    But given the performance of ID4, yea i think that one is dead in the water.

  11. #11
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Elite Anubis Guard View Post
    Not to sound callous but you should keep out of threads in the sub-board with Spoiler in the title or the specific episode threads if you don't wish to be spoiled. It's unfair to expect people not to talk about specifics of the show, especially when the warning is up there on the very title.
    Oh, don't you worry -- I plan to ignore this part of the forum the moment February 15 comes along, and that includes Stargate Command (except to post my Proper Stargate Rewatch threads -- for which I'll have to cover the bottom half of the screen to make a new topic after which I can access them from my profile-page (cause I haven't found a way to delete my account)).
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  12. #12
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    The funny thing is, I don't care about spoilers because I already know what really happened between 1928 and 1939: nothing. I know it sounds harsh, and have the utmost respect for everyone who worked on this. And I will probably watch whatever is free, but I'm not excited and I'm not going to support MGM to get more Stargate, because it will never be anything like the original anymore.

    On another note, and it's not easy for me to say it, but I would actually prefer Emmerich and Devlin's reboot over Origins. In my opinion, they were honest with their opinions on the TV franchise and what they wanted to do with their Stargate trilogy. They clearly said it won't be anything like the TV show and likely wouldn't have featured O'Neil and Jackson anymore. MGM/SGC, in my opinion, are not honest, because everything released proves it's not canon even though they say it is. They also said everyone working on Origins are fans of Stargate. Well, so am I and having seen the film and SG-1 at least half a dozen times I can just see that neither the story, nor the characters, nor the aesthetics, fit the main canon.
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    I don't want a movie reboot. It needs to be a show. I mean, how do you do universe building using movies? How many movies can you do inside one universe before everyone moves on and you have to reboot again? And I especially don't want a movie reboot from people who already did it quarter a century ago. How that would make it fresh seriously escapes me.

    Origins I have no problem with (well, except that I'm not allowed to watch most of it). On the contrary, I hope it succeeds and brings us more Origins, like the rise of Tok'ra, the four races, Ancients in Pegasus, young Bra'tac...

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by ESESEL View Post
    I don't want a movie reboot. It needs to be a show. I mean, how do you do universe building using movies? How many movies can you do inside one universe before everyone moves on and you have to reboot again? And I especially don't want a movie reboot from people who already did it quarter a century ago. How that would make it fresh seriously escapes me.

    Origins I have no problem with (well, except that I'm not allowed to watch most of it). On the contrary, I hope it succeeds and brings us more Origins, like the rise of Tok'ra, the four races, Ancients in Pegasus, young Bra'tac...
    Ask Marvel.
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  15. #15
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    everything released proves it's not canon even though they say it is. They also said everyone working on Origins are fans of Stargate. Well, so am I and having seen the film and SG-1 at least half a dozen times I can just see that neither the story, nor the characters, nor the aesthetics, fit the main canon.
    That's....absurd. Completely and utterly. All of a minute of it has been released.

    I'm not saying you must like what they make, or else! Of course not, everyone is entitled to their own tastes and there are going to be people who won't like this. Who knows, I may not even like it.

    But to claim you can make an accurate, sweeping assessment of their story and how it fits into the SG-verse based on a minute of hype footage? That's nonsense
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  16. #16
    Second Lieutenant NickEast's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    That's....absurd. Completely and utterly. All of a minute of it has been released.

    I'm not saying you must like what they make, or else! Of course not, everyone is entitled to their own tastes and there are going to be people who won't like this. Who knows, I may not even like it.

    But to claim you can make an accurate, sweeping assessment of their story and how it fits into the SG-verse based on a minute of hype footage? That's nonsense
    I don't know, but aren't trailers supposed to be representative of the final product to hook people in? Obviously I don't know about the whole 100-minute story, but all the footage that has been released contains elements that contradict established canon, as well as the established characters and aesthetics. As much as I like strong female characters, Catherine acts completely out of character based on her other appearances, as does her father. The Stargate looks completely different, unless they magically replace it in the final release, and several of the situations depicted were never mentioned or shown in any of the original works ( such as the Nazis, an active Stargate, or the synopsis that Catherine has to prevent something terrible), which means it requires trickery to shove it into the established canon and that usually constitutes bad writing (at least what I've heard from experienced writers).

    I'm not 100% accurate, and many trailers have been somewhat misleading, but unless the whole trailer is fake, there's plenty of proof that it's not SG-1/Atlantis/Universe canon. And this isn't just a random opinion, I've watched all of the teasers and trailers several times and formed a more critical opinion, comparing it to twenty years of established material. Don't you think I would like to be proven wrong? I'm usually very optimistic, hell, I even think Mass Effect Andromeda is a decent game, but with everything MGM has released my optimism about Stargate was diminished until it's almost completely gone. One part still thinks it's going to work out, but I'm afraid of the opposite.
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  17. #17
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Ask Marvel.
    Step 1: Wait till Disney buys MGM...

    And yes, I'm a big fan of MCU - but I wouldn't be half as invested if it weren't for Agents of Shield. That's what keeps me interested in that universe, what makes it feel organic for me, not a few random shots of Thanos they've given me in the last ten years.

  18. #18
    Colonel Elite Anubis Guard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Trailers are very rarely put together by the people who make the actual film/show/whatever. I completely agree with Digifluid (+1 btw) and unfortunately I think that's it's something of a pandemic attitude amongst pretty much every fandom. I'll wait to watch the actual thing before I form an opinion on it.

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  19. #19
    Airman Flash525's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    But something I forgot earlier... What if Origins is the idea of a reboot? It does start all the way back from the beginning. It starts fresh. What if this is MGM's plan all along, and Stargate Origins is to 2018 what Stargate was to 1994. And there's going to be a Jonathan Glassner out there who'll maybe want to turn it into a tv-show and well... ignore all we've learned in the old shows and begin anew. Or change the story and take it some place else, like Battlestar Galactica maybe.
    I would like to think that Origins is the intended origin of a reboot, but from what I've managed to find out about it (which, granted, isn't much) it very much seems as though Origins isn't going to be changing the events that have preceded it, and it is very much set in the same universe as SG1, SGA & SGU, just obviously, earlier.

  20. #20
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Origins vs Reboot (Spoilers for Stargate Origins)

    Quote Originally Posted by nivao View Post
    I don't know, but aren't trailers supposed to be representative of the final product to hook people in?
    Nope. Trailers are only designed to hook people in, they're not telling the story. Most of the time trailers aren't even assembled by the people involved in the project, they're put together by the studio or distributor's promotions department with the sole purpose of being flashy enough to get people to buy into it. That's how we get those ridiculously off-base things like how Drive (the Ryan Gosling movie) was promoted like it was Fast and Furious clone, when it was nothing even remotely like that.
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