Did the Tollan people know...

[Laxian of Earth]

...that humanity saved their asses?

I mean the Tau'ri did help them several times, but with the help of the Nox they once really saved all their lives and I would think that the people of Tollana to be greatful, even more so because with all their "wisdom" they didn't see it coming and needed the "primitives" to help them out!

I mean we know that the Curia-Sessions are public - unless the chancellor shuts of the surveillance systems! - so wouldn't all the people know and would they all agree not to help the people who just saved their lives (are they really that cohesive?)?

It would have made for a nice plot, some "underground" helping humanity and giving them some technology (maybe not even their best stuff, but something)

It's kind of ungrateful not to give something in return if somebody who isn't obligated to (like say a firefighter) saves your life!

Well, I am asking because I am thinking about writing that as a fanfiction (well: Part of a longer one I've been working on for years...yes I am writing slowly and I suffer from writer's block often and no, I've never published a fanfiction I wrote!)

So, floor is your's

greetings LAX

[thekillman]

.I mean the Tau'ri did help them several times

Once. We helped them with the Goa'uld deal once. When we first met them we took them hostage, and even saved people that weren't supposed to be saved because they were shutting the gate down (and then held them hostage).

Secondly, they helped a people like us before, and those people destroyed themselves. They weren't holding back tech because they hated us, they did it to save us. Considering that Humanity never shared tech beyond the most basics with lesser races, we came off as humongous hypocrites.

[Laxian of Earth]

Yes they were supposed to survive - they just underestimated how much their planet hat deteriorated already (otherwise they would have probably worm space suits or something, but the mighty Tollan had miscalculated!), yes some people tried to hold them hostage (idiots, but then again: The NID were never all that bright! The SGC did want to help with that, but they had to )

greetings LAX
ps: I still think the Tollans are condescending *******s who in the end got what they deserved (they had barbarians as neighbours (the Goa'uld), but they trusted a static defense and high-tech instead of a standing army and navy? Damned...how dumb can you be?)...on the other hand: The loss of them also makes me sad (humanity and they could have had a wounderful relationship once we had the Asgard technology (making humanity technologically superior!))

On the other hand: They at least tried to clean up their mistake (shut of the gate to their former homeworld so that nobody would go there (EDIT-NOTE: "their"? Damned, I must be too tired, I don't make such stupid mistakes normalle) and die because the planet was an unihabitable wasteland! That's more considerate than the Ancients who never cleaned up their messes!

[Visam]

In the first meeting with the Tollan Omoc came off as condescending to a degree but mostly he was paranoid and as it turned out with good reason (as the NID was going to dump them in a camp and try to force them to give us tech)

We also learned that the reason there planet was destroyed was because they shared tech with a neighboring planet. That planet blew itself up and in the process altered the Tollan planet's orbit which caused them to have to evacuate. That would go a long way toward public cohesion against sharing tech. These are a people that the group we "saved/captured" would have rather died than risk contaminating our technology out of fear of us destroying ourselves or others with it. This goes a long way toward making them a "good" people to me.

Really though, there was to little interaction with them to really judge them as a people. We really only got to know 3 of them two of which were rulers "Omoc, and Travell" and far as they go people in charge usually have a high level of confidence in themselves, and come off as condescending because of that. The other Tollan we got to know was Narim, he was more of a common man, he was a bit odd in his infatuation with Carter, and he didn't seem condescending like the rulers did.

In the end the "rulers" ended up manipulating it's people into doing things that (based on Nariem's reaction) I doubt the typical Tollan would have went along with. This lead to Nariem helping us and dooming his own people and himself.

[ancient1]

i didnt like the tollan and i think they got what was coming to them but at the sametime i think Jack o'neil and the SGC were very hypocritical asking the tollan for millitary technology when they themselves would not provide tech to Jonas quinn world when it was asked of them.

[AleksisMi]

.... the tollan were right... imagine they came to earth and gave china russia america and some random other crazy country or continent the power to phase shift... you know who dies? the citizins... billions... phase shifting weapons... armor... theft.... entire power plants at risk of thier power atomic energy or fission rods being stolen or sabatoged, huge air craft carriers disintegrated by ion cannons, oh and yes.... entire fields and factorys just destroyed or dissapeared as a side point of deploying a new technology unknown to us like faster then light comunication malfunctioning

[AleksisMi]

oh and im a optimist and think they phase shifted all thier people out of danger in a clever move while the gouuld were watching the tarii and used nerum to sell the tollen being dead to earth and the gouuld in a brilliant self confirming move if ones enemies believe something and onese allies also believe it you get a rather well confirmed belief, or a brilliantly played game of possum where they can avoid the gouuld and not have to use violence against them while the gouuld figure out how not to be evil someday etc

[AleksisMi]

im a super optimist i like to think the tollens and asgard both faked thier deaths or figured out some clever plot useing time travel to avoid thier civilizations destruction, perhaps the dark asgard are some sort of proof of the asgards clever time travel planes etc

[Xaeden]

Rather than have the Asgard fake their demise (and leave Earth to deal with the Ori threat on their own), a better option to bring them back would just be to say that their consciousnesses reside in full in the Asgard core. Thus, Earth could bring them back by creating new bodies for them absent the fatal flaw of their last iteration. One way to do that would be to share the plan with the Rogue Asgard and try to negotiate for their help in creating new bodies as a way to resolve hostilities. It would allow the Ida Asgard to return, the Rogue Asgard to reunite with their more advanced brethren, and, at the same time, it would be a soft reset for the Asgard as, despite their superior knowledge and presumed allowed access to the information stored in their core, they wouldn't have the ability to just recreate advanced ships and other technologies overnight.

[AleksisMi]

i actually have a side thoery regarding the core, it allowed the crew to reverse the flow of time after nearly freezing it for decades, sooo.... what if thier is a second core within the core designed purely to allow someone in the far future to actually come up with a cure for hte asgard and whatever else they require, and then send it back in time through the core, the asgard recieve it, then blew up thier planet and seemingly all died but they actually just clone jumped to a different dimension or world wehre they had a back up set of shipps or technologies, and they do this so they do not alter the events that lead to the finding of hte cure for them, and now they have to just sit in the background and never emerge as the asgard until the tauri reach the point where they found the cures and other things and sent them back via the core etc, so then the asgard in a desire to come back perhaps will make dark asgard clone bodies and join them once they do the series of events that was pre destined and they couldnt interrupt etc.... just a what if taking into account hte apparent time travel device iwth a built in super computer and data core that could probably do other things tooo, and taking into account the grandfather paradox in terms of not undueing hte creation of a cure for thier race