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  1. #1
    Attacking Midfielder Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    I tried to find out a way how the SGC and Atlantis could rescue the crew of Destiny with the known technology from all 3 shows :

    Dr. Carter and Dr. McKay knows that the Destiny has gone through the Pegasus galaxy, so they create a new version of Avengers (v3.0) program (from SG-1 7x07 Avenger 2.0) to infect the Pegasus gate system. They wanted to locate all the potential gates in the system, because they hoped that maybe not all of the Universe type of gates were collected when the Ancients arrived to create their newest gate system (the P-gates). And they were right, so they can finally study the actual old U-gate on an abadonned planet by a group of scientists.

    McKay, Carter and Zelenka believe that they could track the path of Destiny through the numerous galaxies if they could infect all the U-gates with the Avenger virus even without the DHDs, so virtually the U-gates would dial each other, so they could always map all the short ranged U-gates in every galaxy really quickly without a KINO. They can not count on the help or the datebase of the Destiny as they are in their sleep chambers for years now. McKay still believes that the small ranged U-gates are capable of transfering materials in the memory of the gate without opening an active wormhole as his plan worked with the intergalactic gate bridge before. His plan is that instead of flying on the board of Odyssey after Destiny, they will use the established U-gate systems.

    So Vala and Daniel goes to the Ori galaxy to speak with Tommin to create more supergates. Unfortunately since the Ori and Adria have died they are not able to build more ZPMs, Ori ships or supergates. In spite of the efforts the locals still believe the Tauri and the Milky way is a threat to them so Daniel starts a successfull negotiation to take apart at least the current working supergate on their end and send back the gate pieces to the Milky way through their on small stargates, so the connection between the galaxies would be broken forever. The parts of the supergate in Milky way are also gathered and sent to the Pegasus galaxy through the newly rebuilt Carter-McKay intergalactic gate bridge 2.0.

    The Odyssey flies the edge of the Pegasus galaxy where they build the first supergate, they dial in the next galaxy with a careful calculation to reach any potential U-gates there, then send through the second supergate pieces. They manage to make the jump wormhole to the supergate, so the Odyssey can fly through. Before the wormhole disconnects they make the wormhole jump back to the normal P-gate at the starting site and they send the supergate pieces after them.

    So that is where the new adventure starts. The Odyssey will alway map the local gate network with the Avengers 3.0, so they can quickly send sets of supergates in the gate's memory at the edge of the new galaxy. Then they build a new supergate again, dial in to the next galaxy with U-gate to U-gate send the pieces of the second supergaste pieces through then wait and collect the first supergate pieces again and so on.

    This way the Odyssey could cross a few hundreds galaxies in a few years time. Pick up the Destiny and go back. But that is an other story for later...

    * * *

    I know this idea is a bit forced, but I always imagined the rescue of Destiny with the help of SG-1 and Atlantis while they are using their own logic and the established gate system protocols.

    The only things which are not so clear that there were 2 different type of supergates in SG-1:
    1. first in 9x06 Beachhead which pieces were fit through the startgate
    2. second in 9x20 Camelot which pieces were much larger
    so obviously I was talking about the first one in my idea. There must be a limitation of how many can be build by the Ori galaxy, so I believe it would be wise to accept that they won't be able to produce more without the guidance of the Ori masters.

    It is also not clear how these supergates were working. Sometimes they said it need a black hole on both end, sometimes just one end, because it is so energy consuming to dial a galaxy from an other galaxy. We know that wormholes can jump like in Pegasus project. But it would be nice to introduce a technology where you could make the wormhole jumps at the starting and/or at the arriving site. I am just a fan, so I am sure the official writers can find a believable solution (like from Asgard database).
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


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  2. #2
    Goalkeeper thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    I don't really think such a huge operation would be worth it. I'd prefer if the Destiny personnel accepts their state as their mission and any connection will forever be one-way.

  3. #3
    Attacking Midfielder Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    It was just an idea like a mini fan fiction how the SGC could save the expedition with the help of other gate systems. If the communication stones could work in real time from that distance then they can introduce some new dialing technologies for the supergates / normal gates.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


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  4. #4
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    Maybe it would be easier to Gate something smaller, like a few puddle-jumpers, or Wraith darts.

    I love the idea of using something like the Avenger virus to speed the mapping part up.

    Plus, it's not inconceivable that some alien ship small enough to Gate could also jump between galaxies with its own hyperdrive.

  5. #5
    Attacking Midfielder Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    I was thinking on the puddle jumpers, but how would you put in 70-80 people? Maybe they could miniaturize the Hammond...
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    I was thinking on the puddle jumpers, but how would you put in 70-80 people? Maybe they could miniaturize the Hammond...
    Dart beam tech. If you take the device out of the dart it would fit in a jumper.

  7. #7
    Attacking Midfielder Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    That is a good idea. Thanks.

    By the way, why have they not offered animals for feeding to the Wraith? I know it is not the best solution, but some cloned/breeded alien animals could be consumed for life energy, so they wouldn't hurt the people anymore.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  8. #8
    Center Back Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    Quote Originally Posted by Platschu View Post
    That is a good idea. Thanks.

    By the way, why have they not offered animals for feeding to the Wraith? I know it is not the best solution, but some cloned/breeded alien animals could be consumed for life energy, so they wouldn't hurt the people anymore.
    The Wraith already have access to animals. If they could survive off of them, they would since their diminishing human food source has led to a lot of problems for them.

    My guess as to why only humans will do is that it is tied to their hybrid biology. Other Wraith and humans are a potential food source because they are biologically similar. By hybridizing they have inadvertently boxed themselves into a reliance on a single food source.

    Although, it seems to me that their transformation is ongoing and that as they continue to feed on humans they continue to grow closer toward them, so it's possible that one day they will get to a point where they can survive off actual, edible food as adults and perhaps even lose the ability to siphon one's life force. The watered down retrovirus that Michael used is perhaps a window into their future.

  9. #9
    Attacking Midfielder Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    Well... I always wanted to see an SG:A episode where they could show us how the Ancients has met with the Iratus bugs. That could explain while all Queen looks the same. Maybe she was the first infected Ancient lady.

    Just an interesting thing what happened when people eats people :
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kuru_(disease)
    So maybe the Wraith has got a similar illness. So they should try some animals.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  10. #10
    Center Back Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    According to the pilot, the Wraith came about from the Ancients seeding worlds with humans:

    In time, a thousand worlds bore the fruit of life in this form. Then one day our people stepped foot upon a dark world where a terrible enemy slept. Never before had we encountered beings with powers that rivaled our own. In our over-confidence, we were unprepared and outnumbered. The enemy fed upon defenseless human worlds like a great scourge until finally only Atlantis remained.
    So apparently the Wraith developed in isolation on a human populated world. After some length of time, the Ancients returned there and found the Wraith who somehow escaped into the wider galaxy like a scourge.

    Also the Wraith aren't humans who were infected by the iratus bug and transformed into a hybrid species. They're iratus bugs who hybridized the more they fed on humans:

    BECKETT: Well, if he's telling the truth, it might be the answer to a very puzzling question. Right now, our best guess is that the Wraith evolved from the iratus bug.

    ...

    BECKETT: Trust me, I know. We speculated that they evolved into the Wraith when they began to take on the characteristics of the humans they were feeding on.
    -Instinct (2x07)

    This is later confirmed when Michael's experiments produce a primitive version of the Wraith who were more iratus bug than human:

    TEYLA: If it was indeed a Wraith experiment, perhaps it was created by combining the genetic elements of the iratus bug with the Taranans.

    McKAY: Which is, as we know, exactly how the Wraith evolved. I mean, iratus bug bites human, human D.N.A. mixes with theirs, a thousand years go by, Wraith.

    ...

    In the lab, a Taranan male is strapped to the bed. He screams as an iratus bug latches onto his throat and feeds. Michael stands nearby, watching impassively.

    MICHAEL (voiceover): I allowed the bug to gorge itself, to absorb as much human D.N.A. as possible. This, of course, led to the death of the subject.

    (Michael carries the man's body into the room next to the lab and dumps it onto several other bodies already there, then returns to the lab.)

    MICHAEL (voiceover): The timing of the feeding was critical -- ensuring that the bug laid its next egg quickly, before the genetic material could filter out of its body.

    (Several large white soft eggs are on the table. Michael puts a syringe into a vial and siphons up some liquid. Tapping the syringe and then squirting some liquid out to remove any air, he injects the rest of the liquid into one of the eggs.)

    MICHAEL (voiceover): The embryo then contained enough human D.N.A. for me to manipulate.

    (Some time later, he goes into the cocoon room and inspects the cocoons.)

    MICHAEL (voiceover): I accelerated the development, augmenting the complexity of its physiology. There were several adjustments, several mistakes ...
    -Vengence (3x19).

  11. #11
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    i don't thing is going to work, you would need at least one ZPM to cross between two galaxys, so you would need tones of ZPM's because you just can't take ZPM with you through the gates because it's powering the connection.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    Not just that, but do we even know if the SGU gates do a correlative update for Avenger to manipulate?

  13. #13
    Attacking Midfielder Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    My original idea was that they could map the current galaxies with a new avengers program which were visited by gate seeding ships or the Destiny in the past, while the rescue team goes quickly after them on a spaceship. They dial in to the new galaxy, they send the supergate pieces, change the wormhole from normal wormhole to the supergate, they fly in, mapping the new galaxy then dial in to the next galaxy etc. Theoratically they should have access to the Destiny's logs. So they should know all the visit planets / gates coordinates. So that is how imagined a conclusion movie to the SG:U while they could use all the SG-1/Atlantis/Universe technologies.


    We know that gates can dial each other to synchronize themselves in the local gate systems. - see the episode Avengers. We also know that material can "travel" in the gate memory without creating a kawoosh in the middle point, so instead of 2 gates call each other, you can extend their ransge. Technically normal MW worked within the galaxy, so every gate can call every gate. When they have built the McKay-Carter intergalactic gate bridge then thy had to use 39 gates, but if I remember well they had to place them closer to each other. But if we accept the maximum distance then it means there must be at least 30+ galaxy sized empty space between the two galaxies. Which sounds realistic as they still needed 3 weeks to travel with ftl drives.

    But it is only a scifi show. If the stones could work from such a distance, some clever gate expert SG writers can solve the distance problems.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  14. #14
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    You forget the reason that the gates here in the MW do those correlative updates is cause of the SIZE of our galaxy and that any gate in our galaxy can dial any other. From what we know of the SGU gates, they ONLY ever dial a few others... Period.

    Additionally, How would you get a small gate to DIAL into a super gate, let alone MAKE one?

  15. #15
    Attacking Midfielder Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    Quote Originally Posted by BlowitUpistus View Post
    You forget the reason that the gates here in the MW do those correlative updates is cause of the SIZE of our galaxy and that any gate in our galaxy can dial any other. From what we know of the SGU gates, they ONLY ever dial a few others... Period.
    Yes, I know, just read the starting post... But it means a small ship or the pieces of the supergate could still travel in the gate memory (without the DHDs). So they infect the planted SG:U gatesystem with avengers, what will map the possible gates in the galaxy, then they rebuild the supergate. The main reason I wanted to use supergates to connect the distance between two galaxies, so they don't have to spend time in empty space....

    Quote Originally Posted by BlowitUpistus View Post
    Additionally, How would you get a small gate to DIAL into a super gate, let alone MAKE one?
    They have got the Asgard database and Atlantis, so maybe they will find out a new dialing sequence. Who knows? Maybe a supergate kawoosh can be jumped back to normal gates, what could cover the energy need to dial an other galaxy without a ZPM.

    Not to mention if a 9 chevron address could immediately reach Destiny then they should find a reason how could they use the 9 chevron addresses for the rescue. Anyway I am just a fan, so I am sure Brad Wright /Martin Gero / R. Cooper could have found out something more exciting.

    "The universe is infinite."
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    Yes, I know, just read the starting post... But it means a small ship or the pieces of the supergate could still travel in the gate memory (without the DHDs).
    And where exactly would we make said supergate parts at??

  17. #17
    Attacking Midfielder Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    Tommin's people could make supergates, or the rescue team re-use the old ones behind them. But this was also in the starting post.

    a ---> b (normal wormhole between two galaxies)
    a--- B supergate pieces sent ----> b change into B
    a ----> B (starting kawoosh changes to supergate a--->A)
    A ---- > B (connection between the two supergates)
    A --- ship goes through --->B
    a ---- > B (starting kawoosh changes from supergate A--->a)
    a ---- A pieces sent through -- >B
    a ++++ B+A (connection cancelled and they recollect the two supergate pieces - A and B)

    Or something similar. The only problem that the entrance wormhole couldn't be jumped or it needs a new technology to be introduced for it.

    Or option B - we leave out the supergates and only some special upgraded jumper goes through the normal wormhole with a Wraith beam technology what could store the rescued crew.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    It's a nice idea and it could actually work, but there would be certain obstacles from actually making it happen:

    1. The Midway bridge was nearly taken over by Wraith and they got really close to taking control of the SGC. It it weren't for Teal'c and Ronnon working together, the president of the USA along with the entire government would need to answer some questions to the entire World about how they played with destinies of all inhabitants of our planet for years and to justify the reasons about how did they spend a lot of money for a top-secret-program mission in another Galaxy. That was the reason of why the bridge was blown up in the first place. To keep things safe in Pegasus AND Milky Way. To keep Wraith from getting FREE access to immense food resource for them.

    2. I doubt that such mission would be even discussed or even considered in the government and by the USA president. The Stargate program already costed a mega-fortune to operate and maintain. Saving the Destiny crew the way you imagined would mean extending Earth's Stargate Program and SGC's presence BEYOND Milky Way AND Pegasus. That's something that would cost not only money, but would mean that whoever would be chosen/selected for the mission, would basically have to act and function the same way the Destiny crew did by the end of SGU S2. That would include the rescue crew members giving up their lives as they know them - children separated from one or from both of their parents or other relatives. It would also cost some people their marriages since in SGU, the "Stargate program is a government secret" plot is still clearly maintained and built upon even further, not to mention regular people getting suspicious that something isn't right since their close and long-distant relatives, friends and neighbors are suddenly missing and nobody knows where they are. It would also mean setting up camps on planets in galaxies along Destiny's way. We are talking about a MEGA-LARGE group of people, which wouldn't exactly fit in 1 space ship that's SMALLER than Destiny. Plus it would probably require the Odyssey making a couple of trips back and fourth and even probably building a few HUNDRED Odyssey-based ships. Which would probably require a lot of Supergates down the road.

    That and since the in-series fact is that anyone who finds out about SGC's existence needs to sign that they're not going to give it away, it would mean even more people getting payed to maintain the silence and the secrecy of the Stargate program. Which would probably end up stretching the government's (not to mention SGC's) resources EVEN MORE, since I imagine O'Neill, Carter, Jackson, Vala and Teal'c would be somehow a part of everything, because you know - they're the LEGENDARY SG-1 that supposedly nobody knows of.

    In addition, let's say that the Atlantis mission is still ongoing in the Pegasus (going by the Stargate:Extinction's plot, which would had the movie show the city make its way back to Pegasus), which means the entire expedition would be super-divided between Earth and Atlantis and probably for the same or smaller paychecks. Things would get so messed up to the point that even a time travel situation wouldn't be of any use to any of the involved. Now I'm imagining that the Wraith would be somehow back in the unmade Atlantis S6, plus there would be still the open danger of the Pegasus replicators coming back for "some more". There's also a possibility that the Atlantis mission would need to get cancelled altogether in the interest of saving the Destiny guys, since that would become the priority.

    All of that would eventually end up in the Stargate program completely falling apart, since there would be the same people doing twice or trice the work for the same or lesser amount of money for some reason. People involved in Stargate missions would start feeling not only used, but TORMENTED by the growing requests of their officials. Everyone would just start to loose interest and leave the program completely, first in smaller, and then in larger amounts and groups. Teal'c', Bra'tac, Ronnon, Teyla and any non-Earth based ally would choose to leave first to deal with their own problems, followed by everyone else. I just can imagine Carter and MacKay flipping out and admitting that their friends and allies from MW and Pegasus were right, so they would just stop working for the SG program altogether and Jack would just re-buy his cabin and continue fishing, with Carter joining him.

    Meanwhile, the US would finally need to admit that they screwed up, in which case, would need to go public since the financial resources of the Stargate program would make the entire World go into an even worse, unimaginable crisis.
    Last edited by Mnikolic; January 17th, 2018 at 07:24 AM.

  19. #19
    Attacking Midfielder Platschu's Avatar
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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    Wow. Thanks for the long post.

    It is a bit depressing what you wrote. They should not leave anyone behind, so my whole idea was to go after them with the help of the gate system while they use the newest gate technologies and ships.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

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    Default Re: Could Destiny be saved with Avenger 3.0 and Beachhead supergates?

    It is depressing, yes, but if I would be a military person who is taking part in a top secret space-portal program and my superiors would ask me to join an team/expedition to rescue the guys from Icarus, I would do some open-minded thinking first. I would consider a few things first (and I would recommend my fellow teammates to do the same):
    1. How my life is going and how am I living so far?
    2. How's my family doing and are we happy together? Are they happy with me? Am I happy with them?
    3. And for that matter, could anyone be able to guarentee that the rescue mission would be successful?
    4. If the mission is not successful, would we be able to return back to Earth safe and sound?
    5. How long would it take us to get back to our beloved ones weather the mission is a success or not?
    6. What if we reached Destiny, got on it and the Destiny guys basically tell us to go to hell and that they want to help the ship complete its mission? I can imagine Rush doing some manipulating so he could convince everyone to stay and then some stuff happens and boom - everyone starts seeing things the way Rush is.
    7. Would I be conformable talking to my beloved ones via the communication stones?
    8. Would my beloved ones be comfortable talking with me while my mind is in someone else's body?
    9. Most important question: Would all of my family members get a green light to use the communication stone system?

    Going to Atlantis and back is one thing - you just find a ZPM or that generator thing (or something that holds the same power) and one moment you're in an Ancient City and the next you're watching a sports game on your TV in your living room. But this is Destiny we're talking about. Ship's old, rusty, damaged and it might hold the greatest secret of the universe (or the way to it). The show presented the background radiation plot as a big deal. So why waste the money on a rescue mission who's success is under a big question mark and might not deliver results, while the resources of the Stargate program could be re-directed to finding a power source which would eliminate the necessity of an Icarus-based planet, which was also a freaking expensive thing? Temporarily cancel a couple of other missions and just keep the base staff and equipment on Atlantis so that mission could continue uninterrupted. Make Carter and McKay work together along with Daniel and the scientists from Destiny via the communication stones and come up with a more reliable and safer solution for their problem. Have O'Neill send some reinforcements and food, IT and military resources and equipment trough the Stargate whenever possible and make the life on Destiny easier for the crew, thus enabling everyone to complete the ship's mission easier and more efficiently and get back to their beloved ones.

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