LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

[magi877]

So this will apparently be set in Numenor(probably spelt that wrong) focussing on the rise of Sauron, and not centre on a young Aragorn as everyone thought...

i am sure since it is a series, we will see numenor and the other kingdoms of men, elves and dwarves in middle earth in the 2nd age

the problem? it is said that amazon wants a got's type of show as far as attraction wise, i see some major room for ****ery here. numenor especially- the lives of the kings there as described by Tolkien, leaves much room for all kinds of imagination

we could see all manner of deviant sex and murder, torture, human sacrifice, etc. all in the name of snagging some viewers

the price we,and tolkien's legacy will pay for tolkien leaving out so many details about the 2nd age in his writings

but i hope i am wrong

[DigiFluid]

I don't think that's wrong. By the time of the fall of Numenor, they had descended into some pretty vile stuff. Yes, they're the descendants of Elrond's brother, and yes they're the ancestors of Aragon, but the late/faithless Numenoreans were not nice people.

[DigiFluid]

I assume the show will largely stick to the broader Tolkien canon of the Second Age, but since there's a lot of 'event x happened between years y and z' but there are very few details fleshing that out, they have a lot of room to fill things in as the show's writers please.

For interest's sake, here's an outline of the major events in the Second Age (years). Bearing in mind that the Men of Numenor were very long-lived :


Early in the Second Age
1 S.A. - The Elves found the Grey Havens on the (new) westernmost shore of the world, following Beleriand's destruction in the War of Wrath
32 S.A. - Men survivors of the War of Wrath land on the island of Numenor and found their new kingdom with Elros (mortal half-Elven brother of Elrond) as their first king
Approx. 40 S.A. - Dwarves of the various kingdoms collectively migrate to and settle in Khazad-dum (Moria)
442 S.A. - Elros, first King of Numenor, dies of old age at 500 years
Approx. 500 S.A. - Sauron resurfaces in Middle Earth, in the far east

Light rising in Middle Earth
600 S.A. - Numenorean sailors travel to the mainland for the first time, meet the Men of Eregion
725-735 S.A. - Aldarion, Prince of Numenor, makes numerous exploratory voyages to Middle Earth
739 S.A. - Aldarion returns home to Numenor with gifts/friendship from the Elf lord Gil-galad
750 S.A. - Galadriel and Celeborn found a city in Eregion, west of the Misty Mountains
806-869 S.A. - Aldarion's voyages continue

Sauron's machinations begin
1000 S.A. - Sauron begins construction of Barad-dur, the Black Tower
1200 S.A. - Numenoreans begin to construct permanent settlements/fortifications in Middle Earth, Sauron adopts the identity "Annatar" and befriends the Elves of Eregion
Approx. 1350 S.A. - Galadriel and Celeborn leave their city in Eregion and travel to Lothlorien, where they will remain Lady and Lord until the end of the Third Age
1500 S.A. - Sauron, still posing as a being named Annatar, works with the Elf lord Celebrimbor to forge the fifteen Rings of Power (the Nine for lords of Men, six for the Dwarf lords), before departing to pursue his own machinations
1590 S.A. - Celebrimbor, alone, forges the Three Rings of Power for the Elf lords (Ring of Adamant for Galadriel, Ring of Fire for Cirdan the Shipwright, Ring of Air for Gil-galad

War of the Elves and Sauron
1600 S.A. - Sauron forges the One Ring, Sauron completes Barad-dur, Sauron sheds the Annatar deception and openly proclaims himself
1693 S.A. - The Three Rings are hidden, War of the Elves and Sauron begins
1697 S.A. - Sauron's forces sack Eregion, Celebrimbor is killed, Imladris (Rivendell) is founded, Khazad-dum closes its gates
1699 S.A. - Sauron's forces have completely overrun Eriador
1700 S.A. - Numenoreans intervene in the war and singlehandedly overwhelm Sauron's armies. Seeing defeat but sensing opportunity, Sauron allows himself to be captured and taken back to Numenor. He will spend the next 1600 years there, initially as a prisoner, but gradually ingratiating himself with generation after generation of Numenorean royalty, becoming a trusted advisor, slowly poisoning them against both the Elves and the Valar

The decline and fall of Numenor
2251 S.A. - The Numenorean king's royalist allies swear to never again speak or write Elven languages, the Nazgul first appear in Middle Earth
2350 S.A. - The first haven of the Faithful Numenoreans (those not buying Sauron's crap, but unable/unwilling to challenge their own king) is constructed in Middle Earth
3117 S.A. - Elven language is officially banned in Numenor, and Elves are barred from visiting the island
3177 S.A. - Civil war in Numenor
3310 S.A. - By now, Sauron has convinced the king of Numenor that the Valar are weak beings hoarding immortality, that if Men would only sail into the west, they could seize Valinor--and immortality--for themselves. Numenor declares war on the Valar (the gods), and begins building a naval invasion fleet to make the voyage west
3319 S.A. - Ar-Pharazon, faithless king of Numenor, sets foot on the eternal shores of Valinor with an army at his back. A mortal setting foot in the immortal lands is the highest crime imaginable, and the world is remade once more -- the Valar (remember: gods of this world, but lesser than the one true god Eru), appeal to Eru to break and remake the world once more, severing the Blessed Lands from the rest of the world forever. Ar-Pharazon, 25th and last King of Numenor, his army, and his navy are all destroyed. The isle of Numenor is destroyed and sunk beneath the ocean for its sin

Gondor, Arnor, and the War of the Last Alliance
3320 S.A. - Elendil of the Faithful Numenoreans founds the Kingdom of Arnor in the northern lands of Middle Earth, while his sons Isildur and Anarion found the Kingdom of Gondor in the south
3429 S.A. - Sauron, whom the Men of Gondor believed dead along with the isle of Numenor, launches a surprise attack and seizes control of Gondorean city Minas Ithil, the seat of King Isildur (many centuries later, this will be Minas Morgul). Isildur escapes to join his father Elendil in Arnor, beginning negotiations with the Elves even as Anarion remains in Gondor defending Osgiliath and Minas Anor (centuries later, Minas Tirith)
3430 S.A. - The Last Alliance of Elves and Men is formed, to battle Sauron once more
3431 S.A. - The Last Alliance marches east, hooking up with Elrond at Imladris, and being joined by the Dwarves of Khazad-dum as they continue east past the Misty Mountains, and then south along the Anduin toward Mordor
3434 S.A. - The Battle of Dagorlad rages in marshlands for days and nights nonstop, leaving countless thousands of bodies. Many centuries later, this area will be known as the Dead Marshes. After reaching Mordor, the Siege of Barad-dur begins
3440 S.A. - Anarion is killed by a projectile fired from Barad-dur
3441 S.A. - Sauron's forces burst from the Black Tower and very nearly break the Siege, pressing all the way to the slopes of Mount Doom. Sauron personally faces down Gil-galad, Elendil, Elrond, Círdan and Isildur. Gil-galad and Elendil are slain, but Isildur uses the broken blade of his father to cut the One Ring from Sauron's hand, dispersing his physical being and sending his armies into disarray. The Alliance defeats the dark army and razes Barad-dur to the ground, though unable to destroy its foundations owing to it being constructed with the power of the One Ring. Isildur refuses Elrond and Cirdan's urging to throw the Ring into the fires of Mount Doom, claiming it as a trophy won by the sacrifices of his father and brother

[magi877]

I assume the show will largely stick to the broader Tolkien canon of the Second Age, but since there's a lot of 'event x happened between years y and z' but there are very few details fleshing that out, they have a lot of room to fill things in as the show's writers please.

For interest's sake, here's an outline of the major events in the Second Age (years). Bearing in mind that the Men of Numenor were very long-lived :


Early in the Second Age
1 S.A. - The Elves found the Grey Havens on the (new) westernmost shore of the world, following Beleriand's destruction in the War of Wrath
32 S.A. - Men survivors of the War of Wrath land on the island of Numenor and found their new kingdom with Elros (mortal half-Elven brother of Elrond) as their first king
Approx. 40 S.A. - Dwarves of the various kingdoms collectively migrate to and settle in Khazad-dum (Moria)
442 S.A. - Elros, first King of Numenor, dies of old age at 500 years
Approx. 500 S.A. - Sauron resurfaces in Middle Earth, in the far east

Light rising in Middle Earth
600 S.A. - Numenorean sailors travel to the mainland for the first time, meet the Men of Eregion
725-735 S.A. - Aldarion, Prince of Numenor, makes numerous exploratory voyages to Middle Earth
739 S.A. - Aldarion returns home to Numenor with gifts/friendship from the Elf lord Gil-galad
750 S.A. - Galadriel and Celeborn found a city in Eregion, west of the Misty Mountains
806-869 S.A. - Aldarion's voyages continue

Sauron's machinations begin
1000 S.A. - Sauron begins construction of Barad-dur, the Black Tower
1200 S.A. - Numenoreans begin to construct permanent settlements/fortifications in Middle Earth, Sauron adopts the identity "Annatar" and befriends the Elves of Eregion
Approx. 1350 S.A. - Galadriel and Celeborn leave their city in Eregion and travel to Lothlorien, where they will remain Lady and Lord until the end of the Third Age
1500 S.A. - Sauron, still posing as a being named Annatar, works with the Elf lord Celebrimbor to forge the fifteen Rings of Power (the Nine for lords of Men, six for the Dwarf lords), before departing to pursue his own machinations
1590 S.A. - Celebrimbor, alone, forges the Three Rings of Power for the Elf lords (Ring of Adamant for Galadriel, Ring of Fire for Cirdan the Shipwright, Ring of Air for Gil-galad

War of the Elves and Sauron
1600 S.A. - Sauron forges the One Ring, Sauron completes Barad-dur, Sauron sheds the Annatar deception and openly proclaims himself
1693 S.A. - The Three Rings are hidden, War of the Elves and Sauron begins
1697 S.A. - Sauron's forces sack Eregion, Celebrimbor is killed, Imladris (Rivendell) is founded, Khazad-dum closes its gates
1699 S.A. - Sauron's forces have completely overrun Eriador
1700 S.A. - Numenoreans intervene in the war and singlehandedly overwhelm Sauron's armies. Seeing defeat but sensing opportunity, Sauron allows himself to be captured and taken back to Numenor. He will spend the next 1600 years there, initially as a prisoner, but gradually ingratiating himself with generation after generation of Numenorean royalty, becoming a trusted advisor, slowly poisoning them against both the Elves and the Valar

The decline and fall of Numenor
2251 S.A. - The Numenorean king's royalist allies swear to never again speak or write Elven languages, the Nazgul first appear in Middle Earth
2350 S.A. - The first haven of the Faithful Numenoreans (those not buying Sauron's crap, but unable/unwilling to challenge their own king) is constructed in Middle Earth
3117 S.A. - Elven language is officially banned in Numenor, and Elves are barred from visiting the island
3177 S.A. - Civil war in Numenor
3310 S.A. - By now, Sauron has convinced the king of Numenor that the Valar are weak beings hoarding immortality, that if Men would only sail into the west, they could seize Valinor--and immortality--for themselves. Numenor declares war on the Valar (the gods), and begins building a naval invasion fleet to make the voyage west
3319 S.A. - Ar-Pharazon, faithless king of Numenor, sets foot on the eternal shores of Valinor with an army at his back. A mortal setting foot in the immortal lands is the highest crime imaginable, and the world is remade once more -- the Valar (remember: gods of this world, but lesser than the one true god Eru), appeal to Eru to break and remake the world once more, severing the Blessed Lands from the rest of the world forever. Ar-Pharazon, 25th and last King of Numenor, his army, and his navy are all destroyed. The isle of Numenor is destroyed and sunk beneath the ocean for its sin

Gondor, Arnor, and the War of the Last Alliance
3320 S.A. - Elendil of the Faithful Numenoreans founds the Kingdom of Arnor in the northern lands of Middle Earth, while his sons Isildur and Anarion found the Kingdom of Gondor in the south
3429 S.A. - Sauron, whom the Men of Gondor believed dead along with the isle of Numenor, launches a surprise attack and seizes control of Gondorean city Minas Ithil, the seat of King Isildur (many centuries later, this will be Minas Morgul). Isildur escapes to join his father Elendil in Arnor, beginning negotiations with the Elves even as Anarion remains in Gondor defending Osgiliath and Minas Anor (centuries later, Minas Tirith)
3430 S.A. - The Last Alliance of Elves and Men is formed, to battle Sauron once more
3431 S.A. - The Last Alliance marches east, hooking up with Elrond at Imladris, and being joined by the Dwarves of Khazad-dum as they continue east past the Misty Mountains, and then south along the Anduin toward Mordor
3434 S.A. - The Battle of Dagorlad rages in marshlands for days and nights nonstop, leaving countless thousands of bodies. Many centuries later, this area will be known as the Dead Marshes. After reaching Mordor, the Siege of Barad-dur begins
3440 S.A. - Anarion is killed by a projectile fired from Barad-dur
3441 S.A. - Sauron's forces burst from the Black Tower and very nearly break the Siege, pressing all the way to the slopes of Mount Doom. Sauron personally faces down Gil-galad, Elendil, Elrond, Círdan and Isildur. Gil-galad and Elendil are slain, but Isildur uses the broken blade of his father to cut the One Ring from Sauron's hand, dispersing his physical being and sending his armies into disarray. The Alliance defeats the dark army and razes Barad-dur to the ground, though unable to destroy its foundations owing to it being constructed with the power of the One Ring. Isildur refuses Elrond and Cirdan's urging to throw the Ring into the fires of Mount Doom, claiming it as a trophy won by the sacrifices of his father and brother

my god, none of that was in any movie! you're making it up!

kidding! i just wanted to give a taste of what i get sometimes...
--------------------------------------------------
but yes, exactly. those gaps give all kinds of space for tptb dark machinations

which is ok if its fits the tale of the Fall of Numenor. my concern is if they go too far afield like with the female Elf/dwarve shipping deal in Hobbit.

hopefully Bezos gets some time to give this some oversight attn as I have read he is giving to EXPANSE


and can we please only have CGI where it makes sense to use it!

[magi877]

the 'media' are still trying to find some way of understanding what this show will be. all they have to do is go to amazon's lotronprime twitter feed!

this could be bad for the show's start as many ppl may be burnt out on the lotr's and hobbit films, though, a minority may think there is more 3rd age stuff to tell (there could be but it would be boring)

i think it is a relative few of us who know anything about the 2nd age, numenor and the other tales of the silmarillion/lotr's appendices

i mean come on news lady, it only takes a little bit of effort----

http://www.ladbible.com/entertainmen...riter-20190522

[DigiFluid]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I think there are even opportunities in the Third Age for good storytelling. In Arnor in the north, they could approach the fracturing of it into three kingdoms, or the internecine war between the three when the Witch-King of Angmar establishes his neighbouring kingdom. Or down south in Gondor, you could address the Great Plague, the establishment of Rohan, or the end of the line of Kings and the rise of the Stewards. Heck, you could even come close to the films and have something set in the 50odd year gap between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

By all accounts they aren't doing this so it's kind of a moot point, I'm just saying there are creative opportunities.

[magi877]

I would love a road trip style show of Gimli and Legolas touring Middle Earth together, really liked their story in the films of gaining respect for eachother!

Shame John Rhys-Davies cant stand the make up due to allergic reactions, the main reason he didnt appear in The Hobbit despite being invited.

there is enough story in the appendix of lotr's for a short movie with this story

Legolas brought elves from his father's kingdom and lothlorien to Ithilien (east gondor ruled by Faramir) and Gimli brought dwarves to the Glittering caves (nearby Helms Deep) and established a dwarve city there. A city said to rival that of the old dwarve cities of Beleriand

then they sailed off to the west

[magi877]

I've been thinking about this a lot lately, and I think there are even opportunities in the Third Age for good storytelling. In Arnor in the north, they could approach the fracturing of it into three kingdoms, or the internecine war between the three when the Witch-King of Angmar establishes his neighbouring kingdom. Or down south in Gondor, you could address the Great Plague, the establishment of Rohan, or the end of the line of Kings and the rise of the Stewards. Heck, you could even come close to the films and have something set in the 50odd year gap between The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings.

By all accounts they aren't doing this so it's kind of a moot point, I'm just saying there are creative opportunities.

yes, i agree that could be made into a good film or even a series

i have often thought what middle earth could be like going into its future--

it would still be mainly 'middle age to renaissance' time period/settings (from our reality) but with some evolution

the building of the 'new order' as it were with men in dominance and with some smaller communities of hobbits (technically men per the Tales of ME books), dwarves and even elves (mainly the woodland type) on mankind's fringes

and orcs as well

we know not all orcs were killed at the end of lotr's, it would have been an impossible task to seek out every cavern and cave system throughout all of middle earth (the east as well) and the manpower being diminished after the wear of the ring would have given the orcs breathing room to reproduce and fortify

but the thing is orcs-per tolkien's notes-were not inherently evil, they were made evil. being abominations of men and elves, their offspring post 'the dark lord' and his influence, would be interesting as well

as either elves or men, the children would be born as an elves or a man, to make the child an orc in appearance, because one could look like a man or elves and still be an orc on behavior, it would need to be tortured and mutilated.

would orc parents continue to do this without the evil influence?

orcs -, would they then begin a settled life specializing in skills they were good at and selling their service and goods to men (mining, smithying, machine building)

of course Tolkien never wrote about this and i dont think the Tolkien estate would allow any thing like it as they want to control the source material

but it would be interesting, for me at least

[magi877]

also from the Silmarillion and the newer more lengthy editions, Children of Hurin and Beren and Luthien's stories could each support a few movies on their own

the versions of these stories in the Silmarillion are abbreviated, the new releases are in full with the finished product being written by Christopher Tolkien

of course one tale is a origin of why only some men were gifted Numenor (Children of Hurin) and the other story being the the origin story of Elrond and Elros

[magi877]

they could really 'disney' the whole thing out (ala star wars)

the amazon series, then movies

they could make a movie on the siege of angband and another on the siege of gondolin

elves, men, orcs, balrogs, dragons (the old big ones not the little baby ones like Smaug) could be made into a huge spectacle if they wanted to make it

all possible with plenty of cash and good cgi

i am seeing the scenes for the battle of sudden flame now

[DigiFluid]

Lol....this thread is only half the reason why I've had Tolkien on the brain. A day or two before I did that Second Age post, over on another forum I'd spent a couple of days dreaming up how to do The Silmarillion as a TV series:


Season 1 (6 episodes)

Spoiler:

Episode 1 (Pilot Part 1)
Narrator (probably the actor playing Feanor - I'm thinking Timothy Dalton) briefly glosses over the coming of the Valar to the world, their wars with Melkor on the virgin Earth, the awakening of the Elves, and trek from the mortal world to Valinor -- all of this done in the first couple of minutes, akin to how Black Panther described thousands of years of the history of Wakanda in two minutes flat.

And then the rest of the episode would depict the Elves living in a flawed paradise; seemingly in harmony to them, but to the viewer depicted as marred by Feanor's arrogance and standoffishness (using dialogue and interactions to establish the family relationships). All the while in this section, drop not-so-subtle hints that the 'redeemed' Melkor is up to something sinister (pointed, manipulative dialogue, that kind of thing), culminate episode with a one-two punch of the reveal of the Silmarils and then just minutes later, Melkor and Ungoliant's attack and the destruction of the Two Trees.

Episode 2 (Pilot Part 2):
Pick up very shortly afterward. Grief and shock at what's happened, fear over what's going to happen next. Feanor learns of the murder of his father and the theft of the Silmarils, and swears bloody vengeance. Episode follows him gathering forces and marching to the edges of Valinor, the Kinslaying, and the terrible Oath being sworn. Mandos appears appears and speaks the Doom of Mandos to the assembled, rebellious Elves. End on dramatic shots of the Noldor exiting paradise on their stolen ships.

Episode 3
Open with (what readers will know but viewers may or may not know is) a step back in time to the time when the Elves were first being led to Valinor. Focus on one as he becomes distracted by a sound and wanders off on his own, where he finds a mystically beautiful woman and it's immediately clear that he is enchanted/in love. This is the meeting of Thingol and Melian.

Fast forward to Thingol & Melian in Doriath, and their ongoing struggle against the forces of Morgoth. Could insert a bit of palace politics here as they and their generals struggle to figure out how to maintain order and where to deploy armies in the face of the onslaught, which has apparently been going on for some time.

When all seems lost, Elves they don't recognize appear on the battlefield and help win the day, though Feanor's son Maedhros is captured and in his battle rage, Feanor is slain. The Noldor have arrived, and though suffering hard losses, they have saved Doriath. Keen Tolkienites will note that I'm conflating the First Battle of Beleriand and the Battle Under Stars here, that's deliberate for simplicity's sake.

Shortly after the battle, as Thingol and Melian greet the sons of Feanor, the Sun rises for the first time. This is taken as a sign by all that the time of the Elves has come, and the tide of war will be turned. The point of this bit is to try to re-establish Feanor's kin as heroic figures who have just saved the day (now without his arrogant influence, maybe his sons won't be so bad), but the elephant in the room for the viewers will be "hey, where the heck is Fingolfin and his entire host?" because we're not ready to reveal the second of Feanor's betrayals to them yet. Thingol grants permission for the Noldor to occupy the lands to the north of Doriath.

Episode 4
The A-plot of this episode will feature Fingon going off by himself to rescue Maedhros from captivity. I'm looking here to frame him not just as the 'hero of the day' from the previous episode, but as a decent, heroic character through and through. This side of the story is also meant to build a feel of kinship and *brotherhood* between Fingon and Maedhros.

The B-plot of this episode I see as being a bit Tudors- or (early) Game of Thrones-inspired, in that it depicts jockeying for position and supremacy, political backstabbing and whatnot. As this episode progresses, the lords of the Noldor decide that it would be best -- both for their own egos, and for the defense of Beleriand -- if they split up and found separate kingdoms. Conclude the episode on a high aerial shot, looking down as the marching legions of Noldori elves split into multiple paths.

Episode 5
When we open this episode, it's clear that some time has passed since the previous one.

The A-plot will be all about the Noldor lords. Scenes with each of them, most now ruling their own domain from their own keep/palace/castle/fort (though Finrod and Turgon are not, they're part of the 'courts' of their relatives). This is also a good opportunity to begin introducing and fleshing out the secondary characters around each Noldor lord, their children and retainers and whatnot.

This should feel like a little bit of a reset, establishing that, while everyone continues to be on a war footing, the barely-contained general chaos of the first four episodes is in the rearview mirror, and that the Elves are fighting a winning war (remember that they're militarized, energized, and a bit severe here, not like the weary Elves we saw in LOTR). It's a new status quo.

The episode's B-plot returns us to Thingol & Melian's hall, as they receive a new contingent of Elves--Galadriel and her kin (who are kin of Thingol), also out of the west, but who the viewer has mysteriously not seen since the end of Episode 2. This side of the story will feature Thingol/Melian interacting heavily with Galadriel; Melian (an Ainur) wanting to learn of her godly kin in Valinor, and Thingol wanting to learn all he can about the history of his Elven kin from the time that he became separated in ages past, until his reunion with them in Episode 3. Galadriel tells them of the Silmarils and Melkor's destruction of the Trees (Thingol in awe of Silmarils, Melian weeps about the Trees).

Cap off the episode with a bomb: Galadriel finally tells them of Feanor's second grave sin, and through flashback we see how he abandoned them in the ice wastes of the Helcaraxe and burned the stolen ships, leaving them to die. This is why they've been absent for the last few episodes, they had to survive that hell and have only just recently arrived in Doriath. Thingol is FURIOUS, and expels all Noldor (barring Galadriel and her kin) from Doriath.

Episode 6
Open the episode on a bit lower-key than where we left off, with Finrod and Turgon out in the woods hunting, alone (alone as in, they're on the same hunting trip together with nobody else, but they're moving separately in the same wood). Simultaneously and at separate locations along the river, Ulmo (who we have not seen since Valinor) appears to them both. Ulmo reveals to them both that tragedy is coming for the Elves, but that they can be the last refuge of the Elves if they build hidden havens (and showing them visions of where to do so).

Back in the castles of Fingolfin and the Noldor lords, they have learned of Thingol's act and are enraged at this affront. In their arrogance, they begin moving forces south to menace/attack Doriath, when Finrod/Turgon return from their hunt carrying the same warning from Ulmo (though neither discloses the haven part of their Ulmo encounters). The haughty, arrogant Noldor lords dismiss this as just more nonsense from the gods that they have turned their backs on. To the viewer with no familiarity with the book, Ulmo's warning appears to be about the impending tragedy of Elf slaying Elf, though the real truth of it will not become apparent until near the end of the entire show.

As the Noldor prepare to wage war on their Elven brothers (again), Thingol arrives on their doorstep with an army of his own, meaning to demand justice for the sin committed against his kin. As they are about to come to blows, Morgoth's army arrives, forcing the two Elven armies to stand shoulder-to-shoulder to even survive. It's the first major fight since the Noldor saved Doriath back in Episode 3, so this is a large-scale battle.

Ultimately the tide turns in the Elves' favour, and the decision is made to press their victory and pursue the dark lord's army. The Noldor are in Beleriand, after all, to reclaim the Silmarils from him. But relations between the Noldor Elves and the Sindar Elves have been poisoned by the betrayals of Feanor, and so Thingol refuses to participate, and leaves to go home instead.

The host of the Noldor pursues the dark lord's routed army to the gates of Angband itself. Unable to actually force their way in, the Noldor establish siegeworks around the dark fortress, hemming in Morgoth and his forces. The Noldor lords congratulate themselves on their victory, deriding Thingol as unnecessary to their victory, and mocking the warning from Ulmo (to the discomfort of Turgon and Fingon).

With the Noldor's fortifications secure and the Elvish victory largely complete, Fingon and Turgon remain troubled by Ulmo's warning. In the closing moments of the episode, they separately depart the army and head south.

In a scene at the end of the episode's credits, we take a brief trip inside the fortress of Angband, and see thousands of breeding vats for Orcs.

Season 2 (8 episodes)

Spoiler:

After the "Previously on" recap, we cut to silence and a black screen. Borrowing a little from Endgame here, one word at a time appears on the black: FOUR HUNDRED YEARS LATER

This season will feature a Beleriand where Men have proliferated in an era of peace. Men and Elves don't necessarily always trust each other, but the overriding 'setting' for the entire season is a Beleriand which has been at peace for many, many years (in living memory, for many Men), thanks to the ongoing Noldor siege of Angband in the distant north.

The 'reset' is a way of being able to tell some more intimate stories without needing to ever worry about or often even think of trolls or orcs or balrogs. I'd like to see Fingon and Turgon in their haven cities (Nargothrond and Gondolin). I'd like to see the growth of relations between Elves and Men here, specifically Finrod and the house of Beor. I'd like to see the story of Aredhel and Eol, and a few episodes later revisit them with the story of Aredhel and Maeglin's return to Gondolin.

There will be love, there will be betrayals, there will be blood. But it will be on a canvas of a land at peace.

Toward the end of the season I'd like to shift the focus back up to the north, to the Noldor lords still overseeing the Siege of Angband, though distracted by intrigue borne of idleness. This is meant to be a reminder that even though we've been enjoying a season of relative calm, it's a false peace.

In the second-to-last episode I want the episode to end with the gates of Angband opening and only black visible between them, but horrific sounds audible. Then the finale will be the Battle of the Sudden Flame, as four centuries' worth of breeding Orcs and other horrors suddenly flood out of the gates and overwhelm the fortifications. The Elves fight valiantly, but they lose, and we lose a couple of main-cast Noldor lords in the process. The climactic moment of the season is a single combat duel between High King of the Noldor, Fingolfin, and Morgoth himself, and it doesn't end well for poor old Fingolfin. The Siege is broken, and the future of Beleriand is once again a giant question mark.

[DigiFluid]

Season 3 (8 episodes)

Spoiler:

The tone of Beleriand throughout will be darkness and uncertainty. The Elves are fighting, but in retreat. Men have become sharply divided between those of true loyalty to their Elven allies, and those who have fallen to darkness and sworn allegiance to Morgoth.

On the whole I kind of want Season 3 to be a two-hander. Right at the beginning I'd like to focus on the adventures of Hurin and Huor, with Beren as a somewhat mysterious B- or even C-plot character who keeps popping up, but he quickly becomes the centrepiece of the season. The story of Beren and Luthien should dominate the season. Not to the exclusion of all else, but the driving quest of the year should be Beren and Luthien's love story and quest.

Going on at the same time needs to be some Elvish stuff, and I'd like it to be centred around Thingol and the war, and the politics of his remaining outside the Union of Maedhros.

The end of the season should be Beren & Luthien's 'victory,' possession of one of the Silmarils, and their 'retirement' from broader affairs. In the background of this, a colossal battle is happening elsewhere, though we're kind of hearing about it second-hand, because none of the POV characters of this season are there.

Season 4 (8 episodes)

Spoiler:

Open the season as the Battle of Unnumbered Tears is being mopped up. It's clear that the forces of the Elves have taken devastating, crippling losses. The battlefield is LITTERED with dead Elves as far as the eye can see, the sky black with smoke from the many visible fires. Orcs and other monsters are roaming around driving spears and swords into the dead and dying. Quite early in the premiere, we see Hurin (who we know from Season 3) in chains before Morgoth, with the curse laid upon his children.

This season should, on the whole, be a dark mirror of Season 3. This season will follow the misadventures and trials of Turin, who is at heart a good man, but is followed by the Curse of Morgoth. Around halfway through the season will be his failure at, and the fall of, Nargothrond.

A lot of the second half of the season should be Turin's quest for peace, and his falling in love with Niniel (who the viewer hasn't met). The end of the season will be their tragic end, and the utter cruelty of Morgoth releasing Hurin, knowing what has happened.

Season 5 (6-8 episodes)

Spoiler:

The start of the season returns to Doriath, to Thingol/Melian's keep at Menegroth. Early on I want to depict the last days of Doriath/Menegroth as the main story. As the A-plot in the first half, it should be all about the alliance of the Dwarves of Nogrod and Elves of Doriath, and how that becomes torn apart by the Silmaril. The B-plot in these first episodes should return to Maeglin and his growing dissatisfaction in the court of Gondolin.

Perhaps halfway through the season, that should be wrapped up. The Battle of the Thousand Caves happens and Doriath falls. Thingol dies, and in her grief, Melian departs the world for Valinor. Beren and Luthien die for the last time, and Dior (their son) and his family (including his daughter/B+L's granddaughter Elwing) flee to havens further to the south.

In the second half of the season, we focus exclusively on Gondolin, now the last of the Elven fortresses in Beleriand (fulfilling the prophecy given by Ulmo way back in Season 1). Can do a lot of court politics in this, as the Elves have reached the point of desperation. Some want to fight, some want to hide, some want to flee, someone even makes the ridiculous suggestion of sailing into the west and begging the Valar's pardon for their sins/folly. There is clearly no way to win the war at this point.

But that all gets sidelined, narratively speaking, by Maeglin's story, his place in court, his unrequited and unreciprocated love for Turgon's daughter. Ultimately he chooses to leave the hidden kingdom, and when he does, he is captured by Morgoth. Maeglin, through a combination of fear of Morgoth and hate for Turgon, gives up the location of Gondolin at the conclusion of the second-to-last episode of the season.

The season finale depicts the fall of Gondolin, last of the Elf kingdoms. The war is lost.

Season 6 (6 episodes)

Spoiler:

Episode 1
Set in the far south of Beleriand, the only safe place left. Dior, the son of Beren and Luthien, and his offspring having been settled there for some time, are the POV characters who try to help as the refugees from Gondolin come pouring in. This episode is largely about the war being effectively lost, but not actually over yet. The 'good guys' have lost, but can't surrender because the Enemy is interested only in exterminating them. Near the end, Elwing (granddaughter of Beren & Luthien) gives birth to twins, Elros and Elrond, suggesting that there may yet be some hope.

Episode 2
The remaining sons of Feanor have heard of the Silmaril in the distant south, and are headed there to seize it for themselves. Meanwhile in the refugee south, they come to the decision that the only hope of salvation is to sail west to seek out the Valar, and beg their forgiveness and aid. Preparations are made for the voyage that Earendil (Elwing's husband) will go on.

Episode 3
Pretty much entirely ship-based episode, as Earendil and his crew sail west. I'm visualizing Jason and the Argonauts here, except the undercurrent is desperation rather than fun.

Episode 4
Return to the southern havens. While life is going on and everyone is trying to make do, the last sons of Feanor attack their kin one last time. Valiant defense of the survivors of Gondolin and just regular people -- the good -- vs. the corrupted and unsalvageable Elves still driven by the Oath sworn so long ago. They fail to seize the Silmaril, when Elwing casts it and herself into the sea. The one Silmaril liberated from Morgoth is lost to the depths of the ocean forever, and Elwing herself is seemingly dead.

Episode 5
The weird one. As Earendil's ship finally comes within sight of Valinor, Elwing somehow appears on the ship. For her sacrifice, and the sacrifice they're about to make, Ulmo interceded and saved her life. The rest of the episode is a mix of recap and an ethereal, otherworldly feeling as Earendil and Elwing are brought before the gods, where they explain all that has happened and plead for them to intercede. Ultimately, the Valar agree, but say there will be a price.

Episode 6
The War of Wrath. I have no idea how to commit a war on this scale to screen in an hour, but it should be every bit as big as the Endgame climactic battle and then some. Gods are smashing across the land. Elves we haven't seen since Season 1, when they refused to follow Feanor, battle Orcs. Mountains are torn down. Valleys are raised up. Miles and miles of land are crushed under the sea roaring inland. The last sons of Feanor finally get the remaining two Silmarils, but are destroyed by them, and they end up deep in the Earth and creating the North Star. The gods beat Morgoth's black crown into a collar he can never remove, and he is dragged back to Valinor to be cast into a cell for all eternity.

Earendil and Elwing, both decended of both Elf and Man, are not pure immortal, and so are not permitted to leave Valinor ever again. The Elves of Middle-Earth are all granted a pardon and invited to return to Valinor, but they will never again be permitted to return to the mortal lands. Earendil and Elwing's children, Elros and Elrond -- both "half-Elven" -- as a result of the deeds of their family and their heroism in the war, are granted a choice: become fully Elf, or become fully Man.

Second-to-last shot of the series is Elros, now visibly a Man, and his fleet of ships landing on an island and declaring this is where they will found the greatest kingdom of Men to ever stand.

The closing shot of the series is Elrond, now visibly fully Elf, standing on a shore looking westward to the ocean that now exists where Beleriand once stood.

[Chaka-Z0]

I am welcoming this series with open arms and no expectations as the lore isn't really extensive on the 2nd Age. That's also quite appealing from a creative point of view I guess, which makes it better imo.

Oh and much thanks for that recap Maia Digi.

[magi877]

Season 3 (8 episodes)

Spoiler:

The tone of Beleriand throughout will be darkness and uncertainty. The Elves are fighting, but in retreat. Men have become sharply divided between those of true loyalty to their Elven allies, and those who have fallen to darkness and sworn allegiance to Morgoth.

On the whole I kind of want Season 3 to be a two-hander. Right at the beginning I'd like to focus on the adventures of Hurin and Huor, with Beren as a somewhat mysterious B- or even C-plot character who keeps popping up, but he quickly becomes the centrepiece of the season. The story of Beren and Luthien should dominate the season. Not to the exclusion of all else, but the driving quest of the year should be Beren and Luthien's love story and quest.

Going on at the same time needs to be some Elvish stuff, and I'd like it to be centred around Thingol and the war, and the politics of his remaining outside the Union of Maedhros.

The end of the season should be Beren & Luthien's 'victory,' possession of one of the Silmarils, and their 'retirement' from broader affairs. In the background of this, a colossal battle is happening elsewhere, though we're kind of hearing about it second-hand, because none of the POV characters of this season are there.

Season 4 (8 episodes)

Spoiler:

Open the season as the Battle of Unnumbered Tears is being mopped up. It's clear that the forces of the Elves have taken devastating, crippling losses. The battlefield is LITTERED with dead Elves as far as the eye can see, the sky black with smoke from the many visible fires. Orcs and other monsters are roaming around driving spears and swords into the dead and dying. Quite early in the premiere, we see Hurin (who we know from Season 3) in chains before Morgoth, with the curse laid upon his children.

This season should, on the whole, be a dark mirror of Season 3. This season will follow the misadventures and trials of Turin, who is at heart a good man, but is followed by the Curse of Morgoth. Around halfway through the season will be his failure at, and the fall of, Nargothrond.

A lot of the second half of the season should be Turin's quest for peace, and his falling in love with Niniel (who the viewer hasn't met). The end of the season will be their tragic end, and the utter cruelty of Morgoth releasing Hurin, knowing what has happened.

Season 5 (6-8 episodes)

Spoiler:

The start of the season returns to Doriath, to Thingol/Melian's keep at Menegroth. Early on I want to depict the last days of Doriath/Menegroth as the main story. As the A-plot in the first half, it should be all about the alliance of the Dwarves of Nogrod and Elves of Doriath, and how that becomes torn apart by the Silmaril. The B-plot in these first episodes should return to Maeglin and his growing dissatisfaction in the court of Gondolin.

Perhaps halfway through the season, that should be wrapped up. The Battle of the Thousand Caves happens and Doriath falls. Thingol dies, and in her grief, Melian departs the world for Valinor. Beren and Luthien die for the last time, and Dior (their son) and his family (including his daughter/B+L's granddaughter Elwing) flee to havens further to the south.

In the second half of the season, we focus exclusively on Gondolin, now the last of the Elven fortresses in Beleriand (fulfilling the prophecy given by Ulmo way back in Season 1). Can do a lot of court politics in this, as the Elves have reached the point of desperation. Some want to fight, some want to hide, some want to flee, someone even makes the ridiculous suggestion of sailing into the west and begging the Valar's pardon for their sins/folly. There is clearly no way to win the war at this point.

But that all gets sidelined, narratively speaking, by Maeglin's story, his place in court, his unrequited and unreciprocated love for Turgon's daughter. Ultimately he chooses to leave the hidden kingdom, and when he does, he is captured by Morgoth. Maeglin, through a combination of fear of Morgoth and hate for Turgon, gives up the location of Gondolin at the conclusion of the second-to-last episode of the season.

The season finale depicts the fall of Gondolin, last of the Elf kingdoms. The war is lost.

Season 6 (6 episodes)

Spoiler:

Episode 1
Set in the far south of Beleriand, the only safe place left. Dior, the son of Beren and Luthien, and his offspring having been settled there for some time, are the POV characters who try to help as the refugees from Gondolin come pouring in. This episode is largely about the war being effectively lost, but not actually over yet. The 'good guys' have lost, but can't surrender because the Enemy is interested only in exterminating them. Near the end, Elwing (granddaughter of Beren & Luthien) gives birth to twins, Elros and Elrond, suggesting that there may yet be some hope.

Episode 2
The remaining sons of Feanor have heard of the Silmaril in the distant south, and are headed there to seize it for themselves. Meanwhile in the refugee south, they come to the decision that the only hope of salvation is to sail west to seek out the Valar, and beg their forgiveness and aid. Preparations are made for the voyage that Earendil (Elwing's husband) will go on.

Episode 3
Pretty much entirely ship-based episode, as Earendil and his crew sail west. I'm visualizing Jason and the Argonauts here, except the undercurrent is desperation rather than fun.

Episode 4
Return to the southern havens. While life is going on and everyone is trying to make do, the last sons of Feanor attack their kin one last time. Valiant defense of the survivors of Gondolin and just regular people -- the good -- vs. the corrupted and unsalvageable Elves still driven by the Oath sworn so long ago. They fail to seize the Silmaril, when Elwing casts it and herself into the sea. The one Silmaril liberated from Morgoth is lost to the depths of the ocean forever, and Elwing herself is seemingly dead.

Episode 5
The weird one. As Earendil's ship finally comes within sight of Valinor, Elwing somehow appears on the ship. For her sacrifice, and the sacrifice they're about to make, Ulmo interceded and saved her life. The rest of the episode is a mix of recap and an ethereal, otherworldly feeling as Earendil and Elwing are brought before the gods, where they explain all that has happened and plead for them to intercede. Ultimately, the Valar agree, but say there will be a price.

Episode 6
The War of Wrath. I have no idea how to commit a war on this scale to screen in an hour, but it should be every bit as big as the Endgame climactic battle and then some. Gods are smashing across the land. Elves we haven't seen since Season 1, when they refused to follow Feanor, battle Orcs. Mountains are torn down. Valleys are raised up. Miles and miles of land are crushed under the sea roaring inland. The last sons of Feanor finally get the remaining two Silmarils, but are destroyed by them, and they end up deep in the Earth and creating the North Star. The gods beat Morgoth's black crown into a collar he can never remove, and he is dragged back to Valinor to be cast into a cell for all eternity.

Earendil and Elwing, both decended of both Elf and Man, are not pure immortal, and so are not permitted to leave Valinor ever again. The Elves of Middle-Earth are all granted a pardon and invited to return to Valinor, but they will never again be permitted to return to the mortal lands. Earendil and Elwing's children, Elros and Elrond -- both "half-Elven" -- as a result of the deeds of their family and their heroism in the war, are granted a choice: become fully Elf, or become fully Man.

Second-to-last shot of the series is Elros, now visibly a Man, and his fleet of ships landing on an island and declaring this is where they will found the greatest kingdom of Men to ever stand.

The closing shot of the series is Elrond, now visibly fully Elf, standing on a shore looking westward to the ocean that now exists where Beleriand once stood.

well, well, Mr TV script writer, pretty impressive!

But, you forgot a few things that would be key to capturing the target demographic in the ratings chase---

sex-- pointless and a lot of it --dwarves and elves, men and balrogs, dogs and cats, horses and dragons--whatever gets the views!

and then--one MUST insert some story-line that includes all of today's most topical and avant garde Social Justice Warrior issues

like maybe we could see Elros not JUST choosing to become a man, but becoming a man via being a trans woman who feels she is a dragon all while questing to find a way to store and capture carbon

now THAT, that would make the show

[magi877]

you mention 'elros is clearly seen as a man' and elrond ' is now visibly an elf'

but how? from my readings the only people Tolkien said to have pointy ears were hobbits. yes elves were slightly taller then men but not too much so.

and men and elves can of course produce offspring who are in turn capable of producing children themselves. so they are very much alike (unlike say mules) and must have the same number of chromosomes. though of course i am sure Tolkien had no consideration for DNA issues or chromosome counting....

in the 'the shaping of middle earth (i believe that was the volume it is in) it would seem that Tolkien envisioned the elves has a sort of first iteration of humanity with men being the second

idk, that's what i took from it---damned ambiguous those notes Christoper was thumbing through