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  1. #41
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    Lol....this thread is only half the reason why I've had Tolkien on the brain. A day or two before I did that Second Age post, over on another forum I'd spent a couple of days dreaming up how to do The Silmarillion as a TV series:


    Season 1 (6 episodes)
    Spoiler:

    Episode 1 (Pilot Part 1)
    Narrator (probably the actor playing Feanor - I'm thinking Timothy Dalton) briefly glosses over the coming of the Valar to the world, their wars with Melkor on the virgin Earth, the awakening of the Elves, and trek from the mortal world to Valinor -- all of this done in the first couple of minutes, akin to how Black Panther described thousands of years of the history of Wakanda in two minutes flat.

    And then the rest of the episode would depict the Elves living in a flawed paradise; seemingly in harmony to them, but to the viewer depicted as marred by Feanor's arrogance and standoffishness (using dialogue and interactions to establish the family relationships). All the while in this section, drop not-so-subtle hints that the 'redeemed' Melkor is up to something sinister (pointed, manipulative dialogue, that kind of thing), culminate episode with a one-two punch of the reveal of the Silmarils and then just minutes later, Melkor and Ungoliant's attack and the destruction of the Two Trees.

    Episode 2 (Pilot Part 2):
    Pick up very shortly afterward. Grief and shock at what's happened, fear over what's going to happen next. Feanor learns of the murder of his father and the theft of the Silmarils, and swears bloody vengeance. Episode follows him gathering forces and marching to the edges of Valinor, the Kinslaying, and the terrible Oath being sworn. Mandos appears appears and speaks the Doom of Mandos to the assembled, rebellious Elves. End on dramatic shots of the Noldor exiting paradise on their stolen ships.

    Episode 3
    Open with (what readers will know but viewers may or may not know is) a step back in time to the time when the Elves were first being led to Valinor. Focus on one as he becomes distracted by a sound and wanders off on his own, where he finds a mystically beautiful woman and it's immediately clear that he is enchanted/in love. This is the meeting of Thingol and Melian.

    Fast forward to Thingol & Melian in Doriath, and their ongoing struggle against the forces of Morgoth. Could insert a bit of palace politics here as they and their generals struggle to figure out how to maintain order and where to deploy armies in the face of the onslaught, which has apparently been going on for some time.

    When all seems lost, Elves they don't recognize appear on the battlefield and help win the day, though Feanor's son Maedhros is captured and in his battle rage, Feanor is slain. The Noldor have arrived, and though suffering hard losses, they have saved Doriath. Keen Tolkienites will note that I'm conflating the First Battle of Beleriand and the Battle Under Stars here, that's deliberate for simplicity's sake.

    Shortly after the battle, as Thingol and Melian greet the sons of Feanor, the Sun rises for the first time. This is taken as a sign by all that the time of the Elves has come, and the tide of war will be turned. The point of this bit is to try to re-establish Feanor's kin as heroic figures who have just saved the day (now without his arrogant influence, maybe his sons won't be so bad), but the elephant in the room for the viewers will be "hey, where the heck is Fingolfin and his entire host?" because we're not ready to reveal the second of Feanor's betrayals to them yet. Thingol grants permission for the Noldor to occupy the lands to the north of Doriath.

    Episode 4
    The A-plot of this episode will feature Fingon going off by himself to rescue Maedhros from captivity. I'm looking here to frame him not just as the 'hero of the day' from the previous episode, but as a decent, heroic character through and through. This side of the story is also meant to build a feel of kinship and *brotherhood* between Fingon and Maedhros.

    The B-plot of this episode I see as being a bit Tudors- or (early) Game of Thrones-inspired, in that it depicts jockeying for position and supremacy, political backstabbing and whatnot. As this episode progresses, the lords of the Noldor decide that it would be best -- both for their own egos, and for the defense of Beleriand -- if they split up and found separate kingdoms. Conclude the episode on a high aerial shot, looking down as the marching legions of Noldori elves split into multiple paths.

    Episode 5
    When we open this episode, it's clear that some time has passed since the previous one.

    The A-plot will be all about the Noldor lords. Scenes with each of them, most now ruling their own domain from their own keep/palace/castle/fort (though Finrod and Turgon are not, they're part of the 'courts' of their relatives). This is also a good opportunity to begin introducing and fleshing out the secondary characters around each Noldor lord, their children and retainers and whatnot.

    This should feel like a little bit of a reset, establishing that, while everyone continues to be on a war footing, the barely-contained general chaos of the first four episodes is in the rearview mirror, and that the Elves are fighting a winning war (remember that they're militarized, energized, and a bit severe here, not like the weary Elves we saw in LOTR). It's a new status quo.

    The episode's B-plot returns us to Thingol & Melian's hall, as they receive a new contingent of Elves--Galadriel and her kin (who are kin of Thingol), also out of the west, but who the viewer has mysteriously not seen since the end of Episode 2. This side of the story will feature Thingol/Melian interacting heavily with Galadriel; Melian (an Ainur) wanting to learn of her godly kin in Valinor, and Thingol wanting to learn all he can about the history of his Elven kin from the time that he became separated in ages past, until his reunion with them in Episode 3. Galadriel tells them of the Silmarils and Melkor's destruction of the Trees (Thingol in awe of Silmarils, Melian weeps about the Trees).

    Cap off the episode with a bomb: Galadriel finally tells them of Feanor's second grave sin, and through flashback we see how he abandoned them in the ice wastes of the Helcaraxe and burned the stolen ships, leaving them to die. This is why they've been absent for the last few episodes, they had to survive that hell and have only just recently arrived in Doriath. Thingol is FURIOUS, and expels all Noldor (barring Galadriel and her kin) from Doriath.

    Episode 6
    Open the episode on a bit lower-key than where we left off, with Finrod and Turgon out in the woods hunting, alone (alone as in, they're on the same hunting trip together with nobody else, but they're moving separately in the same wood). Simultaneously and at separate locations along the river, Ulmo (who we have not seen since Valinor) appears to them both. Ulmo reveals to them both that tragedy is coming for the Elves, but that they can be the last refuge of the Elves if they build hidden havens (and showing them visions of where to do so).

    Back in the castles of Fingolfin and the Noldor lords, they have learned of Thingol's act and are enraged at this affront. In their arrogance, they begin moving forces south to menace/attack Doriath, when Finrod/Turgon return from their hunt carrying the same warning from Ulmo (though neither discloses the haven part of their Ulmo encounters). The haughty, arrogant Noldor lords dismiss this as just more nonsense from the gods that they have turned their backs on. To the viewer with no familiarity with the book, Ulmo's warning appears to be about the impending tragedy of Elf slaying Elf, though the real truth of it will not become apparent until near the end of the entire show.

    As the Noldor prepare to wage war on their Elven brothers (again), Thingol arrives on their doorstep with an army of his own, meaning to demand justice for the sin committed against his kin. As they are about to come to blows, Morgoth's army arrives, forcing the two Elven armies to stand shoulder-to-shoulder to even survive. It's the first major fight since the Noldor saved Doriath back in Episode 3, so this is a large-scale battle.

    Ultimately the tide turns in the Elves' favour, and the decision is made to press their victory and pursue the dark lord's army. The Noldor are in Beleriand, after all, to reclaim the Silmarils from him. But relations between the Noldor Elves and the Sindar Elves have been poisoned by the betrayals of Feanor, and so Thingol refuses to participate, and leaves to go home instead.

    The host of the Noldor pursues the dark lord's routed army to the gates of Angband itself. Unable to actually force their way in, the Noldor establish siegeworks around the dark fortress, hemming in Morgoth and his forces. The Noldor lords congratulate themselves on their victory, deriding Thingol as unnecessary to their victory, and mocking the warning from Ulmo (to the discomfort of Turgon and Fingon).

    With the Noldor's fortifications secure and the Elvish victory largely complete, Fingon and Turgon remain troubled by Ulmo's warning. In the closing moments of the episode, they separately depart the army and head south.

    In a scene at the end of the episode's credits, we take a brief trip inside the fortress of Angband, and see thousands of breeding vats for Orcs.


    Season 2 (8 episodes)
    Spoiler:
    After the "Previously on" recap, we cut to silence and a black screen. Borrowing a little from Endgame here, one word at a time appears on the black: FOUR HUNDRED YEARS LATER

    This season will feature a Beleriand where Men have proliferated in an era of peace. Men and Elves don't necessarily always trust each other, but the overriding 'setting' for the entire season is a Beleriand which has been at peace for many, many years (in living memory, for many Men), thanks to the ongoing Noldor siege of Angband in the distant north.

    The 'reset' is a way of being able to tell some more intimate stories without needing to ever worry about or often even think of trolls or orcs or balrogs. I'd like to see Fingon and Turgon in their haven cities (Nargothrond and Gondolin). I'd like to see the growth of relations between Elves and Men here, specifically Finrod and the house of Beor. I'd like to see the story of Aredhel and Eol, and a few episodes later revisit them with the story of Aredhel and Maeglin's return to Gondolin.

    There will be love, there will be betrayals, there will be blood. But it will be on a canvas of a land at peace.

    Toward the end of the season I'd like to shift the focus back up to the north, to the Noldor lords still overseeing the Siege of Angband, though distracted by intrigue borne of idleness. This is meant to be a reminder that even though we've been enjoying a season of relative calm, it's a false peace.

    In the second-to-last episode I want the episode to end with the gates of Angband opening and only black visible between them, but horrific sounds audible. Then the finale will be the Battle of the Sudden Flame, as four centuries' worth of breeding Orcs and other horrors suddenly flood out of the gates and overwhelm the fortifications. The Elves fight valiantly, but they lose, and we lose a couple of main-cast Noldor lords in the process. The climactic moment of the season is a single combat duel between High King of the Noldor, Fingolfin, and Morgoth himself, and it doesn't end well for poor old Fingolfin. The Siege is broken, and the future of Beleriand is once again a giant question mark.
    Last edited by DigiFluid; May 23rd, 2019 at 06:38 PM.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  2. #42
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    Season 3 (8 episodes)
    Spoiler:
    The tone of Beleriand throughout will be darkness and uncertainty. The Elves are fighting, but in retreat. Men have become sharply divided between those of true loyalty to their Elven allies, and those who have fallen to darkness and sworn allegiance to Morgoth.

    On the whole I kind of want Season 3 to be a two-hander. Right at the beginning I'd like to focus on the adventures of Hurin and Huor, with Beren as a somewhat mysterious B- or even C-plot character who keeps popping up, but he quickly becomes the centrepiece of the season. The story of Beren and Luthien should dominate the season. Not to the exclusion of all else, but the driving quest of the year should be Beren and Luthien's love story and quest.

    Going on at the same time needs to be some Elvish stuff, and I'd like it to be centred around Thingol and the war, and the politics of his remaining outside the Union of Maedhros.

    The end of the season should be Beren & Luthien's 'victory,' possession of one of the Silmarils, and their 'retirement' from broader affairs. In the background of this, a colossal battle is happening elsewhere, though we're kind of hearing about it second-hand, because none of the POV characters of this season are there.


    Season 4 (8 episodes)
    Spoiler:
    Open the season as the Battle of Unnumbered Tears is being mopped up. It's clear that the forces of the Elves have taken devastating, crippling losses. The battlefield is LITTERED with dead Elves as far as the eye can see, the sky black with smoke from the many visible fires. Orcs and other monsters are roaming around driving spears and swords into the dead and dying. Quite early in the premiere, we see Hurin (who we know from Season 3) in chains before Morgoth, with the curse laid upon his children.

    This season should, on the whole, be a dark mirror of Season 3. This season will follow the misadventures and trials of Turin, who is at heart a good man, but is followed by the Curse of Morgoth. Around halfway through the season will be his failure at, and the fall of, Nargothrond.

    A lot of the second half of the season should be Turin's quest for peace, and his falling in love with Niniel (who the viewer hasn't met). The end of the season will be their tragic end, and the utter cruelty of Morgoth releasing Hurin, knowing what has happened.


    Season 5 (6-8 episodes)
    Spoiler:
    The start of the season returns to Doriath, to Thingol/Melian's keep at Menegroth. Early on I want to depict the last days of Doriath/Menegroth as the main story. As the A-plot in the first half, it should be all about the alliance of the Dwarves of Nogrod and Elves of Doriath, and how that becomes torn apart by the Silmaril. The B-plot in these first episodes should return to Maeglin and his growing dissatisfaction in the court of Gondolin.

    Perhaps halfway through the season, that should be wrapped up. The Battle of the Thousand Caves happens and Doriath falls. Thingol dies, and in her grief, Melian departs the world for Valinor. Beren and Luthien die for the last time, and Dior (their son) and his family (including his daughter/B+L's granddaughter Elwing) flee to havens further to the south.

    In the second half of the season, we focus exclusively on Gondolin, now the last of the Elven fortresses in Beleriand (fulfilling the prophecy given by Ulmo way back in Season 1). Can do a lot of court politics in this, as the Elves have reached the point of desperation. Some want to fight, some want to hide, some want to flee, someone even makes the ridiculous suggestion of sailing into the west and begging the Valar's pardon for their sins/folly. There is clearly no way to win the war at this point.

    But that all gets sidelined, narratively speaking, by Maeglin's story, his place in court, his unrequited and unreciprocated love for Turgon's daughter. Ultimately he chooses to leave the hidden kingdom, and when he does, he is captured by Morgoth. Maeglin, through a combination of fear of Morgoth and hate for Turgon, gives up the location of Gondolin at the conclusion of the second-to-last episode of the season.

    The season finale depicts the fall of Gondolin, last of the Elf kingdoms. The war is lost.


    Season 6 (6 episodes)
    Spoiler:
    Episode 1
    Set in the far south of Beleriand, the only safe place left. Dior, the son of Beren and Luthien, and his offspring having been settled there for some time, are the POV characters who try to help as the refugees from Gondolin come pouring in. This episode is largely about the war being effectively lost, but not actually over yet. The 'good guys' have lost, but can't surrender because the Enemy is interested only in exterminating them. Near the end, Elwing (granddaughter of Beren & Luthien) gives birth to twins, Elros and Elrond, suggesting that there may yet be some hope.

    Episode 2
    The remaining sons of Feanor have heard of the Silmaril in the distant south, and are headed there to seize it for themselves. Meanwhile in the refugee south, they come to the decision that the only hope of salvation is to sail west to seek out the Valar, and beg their forgiveness and aid. Preparations are made for the voyage that Earendil (Elwing's husband) will go on.

    Episode 3
    Pretty much entirely ship-based episode, as Earendil and his crew sail west. I'm visualizing Jason and the Argonauts here, except the undercurrent is desperation rather than fun.

    Episode 4
    Return to the southern havens. While life is going on and everyone is trying to make do, the last sons of Feanor attack their kin one last time. Valiant defense of the survivors of Gondolin and just regular people -- the good -- vs. the corrupted and unsalvageable Elves still driven by the Oath sworn so long ago. They fail to seize the Silmaril, when Elwing casts it and herself into the sea. The one Silmaril liberated from Morgoth is lost to the depths of the ocean forever, and Elwing herself is seemingly dead.

    Episode 5
    The weird one. As Earendil's ship finally comes within sight of Valinor, Elwing somehow appears on the ship. For her sacrifice, and the sacrifice they're about to make, Ulmo interceded and saved her life. The rest of the episode is a mix of recap and an ethereal, otherworldly feeling as Earendil and Elwing are brought before the gods, where they explain all that has happened and plead for them to intercede. Ultimately, the Valar agree, but say there will be a price.

    Episode 6
    The War of Wrath. I have no idea how to commit a war on this scale to screen in an hour, but it should be every bit as big as the Endgame climactic battle and then some. Gods are smashing across the land. Elves we haven't seen since Season 1, when they refused to follow Feanor, battle Orcs. Mountains are torn down. Valleys are raised up. Miles and miles of land are crushed under the sea roaring inland. The last sons of Feanor finally get the remaining two Silmarils, but are destroyed by them, and they end up deep in the Earth and creating the North Star. The gods beat Morgoth's black crown into a collar he can never remove, and he is dragged back to Valinor to be cast into a cell for all eternity.

    Earendil and Elwing, both decended of both Elf and Man, are not pure immortal, and so are not permitted to leave Valinor ever again. The Elves of Middle-Earth are all granted a pardon and invited to return to Valinor, but they will never again be permitted to return to the mortal lands. Earendil and Elwing's children, Elros and Elrond -- both "half-Elven" -- as a result of the deeds of their family and their heroism in the war, are granted a choice: become fully Elf, or become fully Man.

    Second-to-last shot of the series is Elros, now visibly a Man, and his fleet of ships landing on an island and declaring this is where they will found the greatest kingdom of Men to ever stand.

    The closing shot of the series is Elrond, now visibly fully Elf, standing on a shore looking westward to the ocean that now exists where Beleriand once stood.
    Last edited by DigiFluid; May 23rd, 2019 at 06:44 PM.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  3. #43
    First Lieutenant Chaka-Z0's Avatar
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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    I am welcoming this series with open arms and no expectations as the lore isn't really extensive on the 2nd Age. That's also quite appealing from a creative point of view I guess, which makes it better imo.

    Oh and much thanks for that recap Maia Digi.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Season 3 (8 episodes)
    Spoiler:
    The tone of Beleriand throughout will be darkness and uncertainty. The Elves are fighting, but in retreat. Men have become sharply divided between those of true loyalty to their Elven allies, and those who have fallen to darkness and sworn allegiance to Morgoth.

    On the whole I kind of want Season 3 to be a two-hander. Right at the beginning I'd like to focus on the adventures of Hurin and Huor, with Beren as a somewhat mysterious B- or even C-plot character who keeps popping up, but he quickly becomes the centrepiece of the season. The story of Beren and Luthien should dominate the season. Not to the exclusion of all else, but the driving quest of the year should be Beren and Luthien's love story and quest.

    Going on at the same time needs to be some Elvish stuff, and I'd like it to be centred around Thingol and the war, and the politics of his remaining outside the Union of Maedhros.

    The end of the season should be Beren & Luthien's 'victory,' possession of one of the Silmarils, and their 'retirement' from broader affairs. In the background of this, a colossal battle is happening elsewhere, though we're kind of hearing about it second-hand, because none of the POV characters of this season are there.


    Season 4 (8 episodes)
    Spoiler:
    Open the season as the Battle of Unnumbered Tears is being mopped up. It's clear that the forces of the Elves have taken devastating, crippling losses. The battlefield is LITTERED with dead Elves as far as the eye can see, the sky black with smoke from the many visible fires. Orcs and other monsters are roaming around driving spears and swords into the dead and dying. Quite early in the premiere, we see Hurin (who we know from Season 3) in chains before Morgoth, with the curse laid upon his children.

    This season should, on the whole, be a dark mirror of Season 3. This season will follow the misadventures and trials of Turin, who is at heart a good man, but is followed by the Curse of Morgoth. Around halfway through the season will be his failure at, and the fall of, Nargothrond.

    A lot of the second half of the season should be Turin's quest for peace, and his falling in love with Niniel (who the viewer hasn't met). The end of the season will be their tragic end, and the utter cruelty of Morgoth releasing Hurin, knowing what has happened.


    Season 5 (6-8 episodes)
    Spoiler:
    The start of the season returns to Doriath, to Thingol/Melian's keep at Menegroth. Early on I want to depict the last days of Doriath/Menegroth as the main story. As the A-plot in the first half, it should be all about the alliance of the Dwarves of Nogrod and Elves of Doriath, and how that becomes torn apart by the Silmaril. The B-plot in these first episodes should return to Maeglin and his growing dissatisfaction in the court of Gondolin.

    Perhaps halfway through the season, that should be wrapped up. The Battle of the Thousand Caves happens and Doriath falls. Thingol dies, and in her grief, Melian departs the world for Valinor. Beren and Luthien die for the last time, and Dior (their son) and his family (including his daughter/B+L's granddaughter Elwing) flee to havens further to the south.

    In the second half of the season, we focus exclusively on Gondolin, now the last of the Elven fortresses in Beleriand (fulfilling the prophecy given by Ulmo way back in Season 1). Can do a lot of court politics in this, as the Elves have reached the point of desperation. Some want to fight, some want to hide, some want to flee, someone even makes the ridiculous suggestion of sailing into the west and begging the Valar's pardon for their sins/folly. There is clearly no way to win the war at this point.

    But that all gets sidelined, narratively speaking, by Maeglin's story, his place in court, his unrequited and unreciprocated love for Turgon's daughter. Ultimately he chooses to leave the hidden kingdom, and when he does, he is captured by Morgoth. Maeglin, through a combination of fear of Morgoth and hate for Turgon, gives up the location of Gondolin at the conclusion of the second-to-last episode of the season.

    The season finale depicts the fall of Gondolin, last of the Elf kingdoms. The war is lost.


    Season 6 (6 episodes)
    Spoiler:
    Episode 1
    Set in the far south of Beleriand, the only safe place left. Dior, the son of Beren and Luthien, and his offspring having been settled there for some time, are the POV characters who try to help as the refugees from Gondolin come pouring in. This episode is largely about the war being effectively lost, but not actually over yet. The 'good guys' have lost, but can't surrender because the Enemy is interested only in exterminating them. Near the end, Elwing (granddaughter of Beren & Luthien) gives birth to twins, Elros and Elrond, suggesting that there may yet be some hope.

    Episode 2
    The remaining sons of Feanor have heard of the Silmaril in the distant south, and are headed there to seize it for themselves. Meanwhile in the refugee south, they come to the decision that the only hope of salvation is to sail west to seek out the Valar, and beg their forgiveness and aid. Preparations are made for the voyage that Earendil (Elwing's husband) will go on.

    Episode 3
    Pretty much entirely ship-based episode, as Earendil and his crew sail west. I'm visualizing Jason and the Argonauts here, except the undercurrent is desperation rather than fun.

    Episode 4
    Return to the southern havens. While life is going on and everyone is trying to make do, the last sons of Feanor attack their kin one last time. Valiant defense of the survivors of Gondolin and just regular people -- the good -- vs. the corrupted and unsalvageable Elves still driven by the Oath sworn so long ago. They fail to seize the Silmaril, when Elwing casts it and herself into the sea. The one Silmaril liberated from Morgoth is lost to the depths of the ocean forever, and Elwing herself is seemingly dead.

    Episode 5
    The weird one. As Earendil's ship finally comes within sight of Valinor, Elwing somehow appears on the ship. For her sacrifice, and the sacrifice they're about to make, Ulmo interceded and saved her life. The rest of the episode is a mix of recap and an ethereal, otherworldly feeling as Earendil and Elwing are brought before the gods, where they explain all that has happened and plead for them to intercede. Ultimately, the Valar agree, but say there will be a price.

    Episode 6
    The War of Wrath. I have no idea how to commit a war on this scale to screen in an hour, but it should be every bit as big as the Endgame climactic battle and then some. Gods are smashing across the land. Elves we haven't seen since Season 1, when they refused to follow Feanor, battle Orcs. Mountains are torn down. Valleys are raised up. Miles and miles of land are crushed under the sea roaring inland. The last sons of Feanor finally get the remaining two Silmarils, but are destroyed by them, and they end up deep in the Earth and creating the North Star. The gods beat Morgoth's black crown into a collar he can never remove, and he is dragged back to Valinor to be cast into a cell for all eternity.

    Earendil and Elwing, both decended of both Elf and Man, are not pure immortal, and so are not permitted to leave Valinor ever again. The Elves of Middle-Earth are all granted a pardon and invited to return to Valinor, but they will never again be permitted to return to the mortal lands. Earendil and Elwing's children, Elros and Elrond -- both "half-Elven" -- as a result of the deeds of their family and their heroism in the war, are granted a choice: become fully Elf, or become fully Man.

    Second-to-last shot of the series is Elros, now visibly a Man, and his fleet of ships landing on an island and declaring this is where they will found the greatest kingdom of Men to ever stand.

    The closing shot of the series is Elrond, now visibly fully Elf, standing on a shore looking westward to the ocean that now exists where Beleriand once stood.



    well, well, Mr TV script writer, pretty impressive!

    But, you forgot a few things that would be key to capturing the target demographic in the ratings chase---

    sex-- pointless and a lot of it --dwarves and elves, men and balrogs, dogs and cats, horses and dragons--whatever gets the views!

    and then--one MUST insert some story-line that includes all of today's most topical and avant garde Social Justice Warrior issues

    like maybe we could see Elros not JUST choosing to become a man, but becoming a man via being a trans woman who feels she is a dragon all while questing to find a way to store and capture carbon

    now THAT, that would make the show

  5. #45
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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    you mention 'elros is clearly seen as a man' and elrond ' is now visibly an elf'

    but how? from my readings the only people Tolkien said to have pointy ears were hobbits. yes elves were slightly taller then men but not too much so.

    and men and elves can of course produce offspring who are in turn capable of producing children themselves. so they are very much alike (unlike say mules) and must have the same number of chromosomes. though of course i am sure Tolkien had no consideration for DNA issues or chromosome counting....

    in the 'the shaping of middle earth (i believe that was the volume it is in) it would seem that Tolkien envisioned the elves has a sort of first iteration of humanity with men being the second

    idk, that's what i took from it---damned ambiguous those notes Christoper was thumbing through

  6. #46
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    Quote Originally Posted by magi877 View Post
    you mention 'elros is clearly seen as a man' and elrond ' is now visibly an elf'

    but how? from my readings the only people Tolkien said to have pointy ears were hobbits. yes elves were slightly taller then men but not too much so.

    and men and elves can of course produce offspring who are in turn capable of producing children themselves. so they are very much alike (unlike say mules) and must have the same number of chromosomes. though of course i am sure Tolkien had no consideration for DNA issues or chromosome counting....

    in the 'the shaping of middle earth (i believe that was the volume it is in) it would seem that Tolkien envisioned the elves has a sort of first iteration of humanity with men being the second

    idk, that's what i took from it---damned ambiguous those notes Christoper was thumbing through
    Ah yes, you've caught out a bit where I'm thinking about how to visually embellish, without having fully thought through the how of that. The narrative point I was driving at there was to visually distinguish the two as separate species at the very end, rather than something silly and boring like having a scene where they sit down and do a pro/con chart.

    Perhaps it could be as simple as distinguishing hair/makeup/prosthetics. For the younger/pre-choice Elros and Elrond, being "half-Elven," make them look a bit more 'halfway.' Smaller ear prosthetics than the other Elves, gentler eyebrows, that kind of thing. And then when doing the post-choice, put the Elrond actor into the more 'full' Elvish look with the full ear prosthetics/more severe eyebrows (hello Hugo Weaving)/etc, while the Elros actor gets shown for the first time as the actor's natural self.

    Just spitballing here, I'm not totally sure how to make it work.
    Last edited by DigiFluid; May 24th, 2019 at 08:40 AM.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by magi877 View Post
    like maybe we could see Elros not JUST choosing to become a man, but becoming a man via being a trans woman who feels she is a dragon all while questing to find a way to store and capture carbon

    now THAT, that would make the show
    Elrond walks in, head shaved, wearing a purple leather jacket

    E: I've had enough of Sauron and his transpacific sexist comments!
    Guard: What should we do sir? Awaiting your orders sir!
    E: Did you just assume my gender? I'm a tripod nu-elf genderless non-hexadecimal being, respect me.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    Quote Originally Posted by Chaka-Z0 View Post
    Elrond walks in, head shaved, wearing a purple leather jacket
    how very avant garde and 'fierce' that would be

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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Ah yes, you've caught out a bit where I'm thinking about how to visually embellish, without having fully thought through the how of that. The narrative point I was driving at there was to visually distinguish the two as separate species at the very end, rather than something silly and boring like having a scene where they sit down and do a pro/con chart.

    Perhaps it could be as simple as distinguishing hair/makeup/prosthetics. For the younger/pre-choice Elros and Elrond, being "half-Elven," make them look a bit more 'halfway.' Smaller ear prosthetics than the other Elves, gentler eyebrows, that kind of thing. And then when doing the post-choice, put the Elrond actor into the more 'full' Elvish look with the full ear prosthetics/more severe eyebrows (hello Hugo Weaving)/etc, while the Elros actor gets shown for the first time as the actor's natural self.

    Just spitballing here, I'm not totally sure how to make it work.
    yes, good ideas, sorry to be the Mr Stickler jerk in the bunch

    whenever something like this comes up though I always get the queasy feeling that the TPTB's are not putting as much thought or effort into story and visuals as we the fans do in our online postings and chats

    sad--and they are getting paid to do it

  10. #50
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    Looks like episodes 1 and 2 will be directed by the guy who directed Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom.

    https://deadline.com/2019/07/the-lor...na-1202640048/
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  11. #51
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    Looks like they got a solid team! Can't wait.
    Spoiler:
    I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

  12. #52
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    Creative team for the series announced:


    Lord of the Rings Creative Team Set at Amazon

    Meet the writers, exec producers, costume designer, VFX supervisor and Tolkien scholar, among others, who are working on the big-budget fantasy drama.

    Amazon's Lord of the Rings team is coming into focus.

    On Saturday, Amazon used its time at the Television Critics Association's summer press tour to unmask the creative teams behind the big-budget fantasy drama. Amazon Studios head Jennifer Salke announced Saturday that the creative team has been "working for months" on breaking the first season and a global casting search is under way. Production, she said, begins in 2020.

    The series, picked up in a huge $250 million global rights deal, will be overseen by showrunners and exec producers J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay (Star Trek 4), with J.A. Bayona (Jurassic World: Fallen Kingdom) set to direct the first two episodes. Bayona and producing partner Belén Atienza will also serve as executive producers.

    "This team is our Fellowship — assembled from around the world, all walking the road together to try and accomplish something far greater than any of us could on our own. We feel humbled and extremely lucky to be surrounded by such inspiring and talented women and men,” McKay and Payne said in a joint statement.

    Here's who's doing what on Lord of the Rings for Amazon:
    • Executive producers Lindsey Weber (10 Cloverfield Lane), Bruce Richmond (Game of Thrones), Gene Kelly (Boardwalk Empire) and Amazon's former head of genre Sharon Tal Yguado
    • Writer/executive producers Gennifer Hutchison (Breaking Bad), Jason Cahill (The Sopranos) and Justin Doble (Stranger Things)
    • Consulting producers Bryan Cogman (Game of Thrones) and Stephany Folsom (Toy Story 4)
    • Producer Ron Ames (The Aviator)
    • Writer/co-producer Helen Shang (Hannibal)
    • Writing consultant Glenise Mullins
    • Costume designer Kate Hawley (Suicide Squad)
    • Production designer Rick Heinrichs (Star Wars: The Last Jedi)
    • Visual effects supervisor Jason Smith (The Revenant)
    • Tolkien scholar Tom Shippe
    • Illustrator/concept artist John Howe

    "As our journey into Middle-earth begins, we are in excellent hands with J.D. and Patrick at the helm, with this incredible team of talent that they’ve assembled,” said Jennifer Salke, Head of Amazon Studios. “The depth and breadth of the experience of this writing and production team is truly awesome, with a real respect for and knowledge of Tolkien lore. We’re so happy to have them on board and to see this exciting series start to come to life.”

    And in case you missed it (you likely didn't), here's Amazon's official logline for the series: "Set in middle-earth, the television adaptation will explore new storylines preceding J.R.R. Tolkien’s The Fellowship of the Ring."

    Amazon has yet to formally confirm any casting on the series, though sources confirmed Markella Kavenagh will play a role in it.

    Amazon's Lord of the Rings commitment is believed to be for five seasons — plus a potential spinoff. Once production budgets, casting, writers, producers and visual effects are factored in, the total for the Rings series could hit $1 billion. Yes, $1 billion for a TV show.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

  13. #53
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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    Looking forward to the series especially after conformation of Tom Shippey working with Amazon prime.

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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    Quote Originally Posted by Ascended Jonas View Post
    Looking forward to the series especially after conformation of Tom Shippey working with Amazon prime.
    +1!
    Shippey was interviewed by a German Tolkien website yesterday:
    Amazon has a relatively free hand when it comes to adding something, since, as I said, very few details are known about this time span. The Tolkien Estate will insist that the main shape of the Second Age is not altered. Sauron invades Eriador, is forced back by a Númenorean expedition, is returns to Númenor. There he corrupts the Númenoreans and seduces them to break the ban of the Valar. All this, the course of history, must remain the same. But you can add new characters and ask a lot of questions, like: What has Sauron done in the meantime? Where was he after Morgoth was defeated? Theoretically, Amazon can answer these questions by inventing the answers, since Tolkien did not describe it. But it must not contradict anything which Tolkien did say. That’s what Amazon has to watch out for. It must be canonical, it is impossible to change the boundaries which Tolkien has created, it is necessary to remain “tolkienian”.
    https://www.tolkiengesellschaft.de/3...g-lotronprime/

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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    Quote Originally Posted by Elwenn View Post
    +1!
    Shippey was interviewed by a German Tolkien website yesterday:

    https://www.tolkiengesellschaft.de/3...g-lotronprime/
    yes, the insistence of the T.E. that certain requirements are in place is a great thing, I agree

    but, knowing that the source material for the 2nd age is sparse it leaves room for a lot of shenanigans by ratings craving TPTB's

    the parts where they say "What did Sauron do in the meantime?" etc

    I can just see know TPTB's going extreme in their depictions of Numenorean debauchery fueled by Annatar

    forcing in scenarios and scenes that who knows what their imagination will put in.

    i am no prude, but i also do not want o see things that would be very much counter to the 'spirit' of Tolkien's writing style-like the way Laketown was depicted and Tauriel was forced into the Hobbit
    Last edited by magi877; July 30th, 2019 at 10:52 PM.

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    the name being used by amazon- simply lord of the rings on prime, is doing harm

    look at this video, there are others like it from well known,self appointed critics on YT. people who have a good sized following

    they think that this show will be a remake of the Jackson trilogy and they are also using the fact of D&D now being involved is a vehicle for these critics to make silly predictions based on a misunderstanding centered around the title

    I know its about name recognition, but hopefully amazon will come up with a name for the show that makes it clear it is not a LOTR's remake

    the guy in this video-despite the fact that info from AMAZON itself concerning the content, like the tweet "Welcome to the 2nd age", is easily available, is just making silly predictions based on ignorance

    i am hoping this kind of thing does not do harm to the show before it even gets started with negative 'buzz'


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    anyone here read the books BEREN and LUTHIEN or CHILDREN OF HURIN?

    If so, just curious as to your thoughts--couldn't find any threads other then some Silmarillion ones that have not had any activity for about 12 years

    I like all of these Christoper Tolkien 'arranged' works of his father's notes and drafts. The books tell the story of the creative process as well as the actual story

    Now, not to spread to much "cheese", but anyone else see any parallels between BERN and LUTHIEN and that old Cruise movie LEGEND?

    the movie is no where near par with Tolkien first off, let me be clear!

    but there are some things similar that perhaps the movie TPTB's took inspiration from Tolkien on?

    Like Jack's mission to get back the unicorns horn (get a Silmaril) and Lilis dance before Darkness (as Luthien danced before Melkor and put all to sleep)

    thanks!

  18. #58
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    Australian actress Markella Kavenagh and English actor Will Poulter have been cast in this show.

    https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/lord...kella-kavenagh
    https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/the-...s-will-poulter
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    Australian actress Markella Kavenagh and English actor Will Poulter have been cast in this show.

    https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/lord...kella-kavenagh
    https://www.denofgeek.com/us/tv/the-...s-will-poulter
    i call Poulter as Suaron..he'd be a good one for it

    wonder if they have added a nickname or somehow shortened an actual character name for the woman?

    'tyra' is a bit like Tar-Aldarion. last queen of numenor

  20. #60
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    Default Re: LOTR TV Series coming to Amazon!

    Nicknames, that's a good idea. I tend to think of these people as their formal names because that's the only way they're ever written, but you're right - day to day, these people probably have a working shorthand. Jon instead of Jonathan, Bill instead of William, that sort of thing.

    (Assuming, of course, that the 'source' is accurate in the first place!)
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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