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  1. #21
    First Lieutenant imzadi35's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    Caitlin is a person who doesn't want to get hurt again, so she's careful not to let someone like Daniel into her life. She's strong in the knowledge of healing arts, and strong in the belief that her mother was 'normal'. Not sure what else to say about her. Why do you ask?
    Turas maith, slán abhaile
    (Safe Journey, Safe Home)

    John 3:16
    Sidney Freedman from M*A*S*H: "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

  2. #22
    Lieutenant Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    Quote Originally Posted by imzadi35 View Post
    Caitlin is a person who doesn't want to get hurt again, so she's careful not to let someone like Daniel into her life. She's strong in the knowledge of healing arts, and strong in the belief that her mother was 'normal'. Not sure what else to say about her. Why do you ask?
    It's the Bechdel-Wallace test.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet

  3. #23
    Second Lieutenant StargateMillennium's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    It's not the Bechdel test (that's if two named women talk to each other about something other than a male). The exact prompt was: "Describe the following [media] character without saying what they look like, what costume they wore, or what their profession is, or what their role in the [media] was. Describe the character to your friends as if they never saw [media]"

    It's just a method that I find extremely helpful when developing characters. When I originally found it, it was used on Star Wars and on Mass Effect to compare characters in the OT to the other media (Prequel vs OT)(ME:T vs ME:A).

    See for yourself.
    Garrus: strong sense of justice, willing to break a few laws if it means doing what is right, has a strong moral code he holds himself and others to and often simplifies situations as black and white because he doesn't know what to do if he can't apply said code, often diffuses tense situations and injuries with sarcasm and humor.

    Han Solo: Scoundrel, looks out for No. 1, willing to do nearly anything to survive, sarcastic and smooth talking, despite seeming callous and selfish he is extremely loyal and has a strong sense of morality and can even be selfless if he thinks the cause is worth it.

    You can do it to other characters in other media. It seems to be a very useful method when developing characters. I use this method on my own characters to help develop them. It could help you make Catherine stand out more. As I mentioned earlier, I felt you needed to put more focus on her personality and less on her appearance.

  4. #24
    Captain
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    It's a way of making sure your characters are not just their looks or background. If the color of your eyes is the most important thing about you, then you're not much of a person, are you? You're a photograph.

    Seaboe
    If you're going to allow yourself to be offended by a cat, you might as well just pack it in -- Steven Brust

  5. #25
    First Lieutenant imzadi35's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    I get it now. I can work on that, but the eye color gets explained later on in the next story, too. Thank you though for all your help so far.
    Turas maith, slán abhaile
    (Safe Journey, Safe Home)

    John 3:16
    Sidney Freedman from M*A*S*H: "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

  6. #26
    Captain
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    Imzadi35, pretend I'm an editor, and I've expressed interest in your story--but only if you ditch the eye color stuff. I tell you I think it distracts from the plot and is annoying.

    What do you say?

    Seaboe
    If you're going to allow yourself to be offended by a cat, you might as well just pack it in -- Steven Brust

  7. #27
    First Lieutenant imzadi35's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    I say that I can get rid of it, if need be. Do I need to?
    Turas maith, slán abhaile
    (Safe Journey, Safe Home)

    John 3:16
    Sidney Freedman from M*A*S*H: "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

  8. #28
    Captain
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    That is the correct answer.

    Now, given that, why do you keep putting emphasis on her eyes when the people here are saying her eyes shouldn't be the focus? Forget her eyes. No one cares about her eyes. They care about whether she comes across as a real person, with real flaws and competencies.

    Seaboe
    If you're going to allow yourself to be offended by a cat, you might as well just pack it in -- Steven Brust

  9. #29
    First Lieutenant imzadi35's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    In the second story it's revealed that she's a descendant of an Ascended being. The eye color comes from them.
    Turas maith, slán abhaile
    (Safe Journey, Safe Home)

    John 3:16
    Sidney Freedman from M*A*S*H: "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

  10. #30
    You call that a glowstick?
    (Moderator)
    Skydiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    So treat the eye color things like the hair color in Game of Thrones.
    Gendry is Robert’s bastard son, his kids have black hair.
    Tommen, Marcella and Joffrey are all blonde due to their parentage.

    PUt your plot device in place and move on.

  11. #31
    First Lieutenant imzadi35's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    So is there anything at all I can salvage from the story as it is?
    Turas maith, slán abhaile
    (Safe Journey, Safe Home)

    John 3:16
    Sidney Freedman from M*A*S*H: "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

  12. #32

    Default Re: Got a question...

    Hi,

    From what I've read, a lot can be "salvaged".

    But the love story probably needs "tweaking". In Stargate, we've come to expect trouble, obstacles, hardship.... mistakes, misunderstandings, outright failure. That's the counterpoint to the triumphs and victories that then become so much sweeter. Makes everything more "realistic".

    If your heroine is so great, she'll be able to overcome anything in her way. Don't tell but show her doing it!

    For instance, when she initially meets Daniel Jackson... not the typical guy, right? Nobody would be surprised if he just was too busy and absent-minded to notice the beautiful stranger. Uh oh. Will she still take the plunge, and tell him that she feels something that cannot be explained, but she believes it's in her power to help him with his hidden pain? She's a healer, she feels the duty, but then, oh no! He's not happy to hear it, and tells her that, actually, as a scientist, he doesn't believe in all that mumbo-jumbo. Crash & burn! Not again! She's always attracted to the "broken" ones, and that's her reward?

    But we know better, right? We'd expect the conflict to be eventually solved, and we'll keep reading.

    Call it the "Rule of Worst". Combine it with the "Rule of Cool" and guess what could happen when they kiss at the wedding.
    Last edited by plumber; February 12th, 2018 at 10:56 AM.

  13. #33
    Second Lieutenant StargateMillennium's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    Don't worry. It's not a salvage operation. It just a revision. You don't have to kill your darlings just yet.
    For one, cut back on the blue. There are 79 instances of the word blue, approximately 50 are in the first quarter and most of them are from Daniel describing the eyes to the others.
    If you want to establish she has blue eyes, make sure it is appropriate. I mean, a few passages where it mentioned her blue eyes along with her 'face that lit up the room' and 'infectious laugh' that works because it is a description worked in with other descriptions. If you want to remind the readers that her eyes are blue, work it into an action or description.
    But the conversation between Daniel and Teal'c.

    "I can't get her blue eyes out of my mind."
    "Perhaps you should ask how they became so blue."

    These two sentences feel...stilted. Try talking to your friends about eye color and observe how they speak. Blue probably wouldn't have been brought up in a conversation such as this and even if it was it would probably be only mentioned once.

    ["I can't get her eyes out of my mind."
    "If you are that intrigued by her eye color, perhaps you should ask how they became that way."
    ]



    Also, put more focus on her personality since it's very obvious she's going to be a major character. Take another crack at the prompt. Figure it out now. Describe Caitlin without saying what she look like, what costume she wears, or what her profession is, or what their role in the story is. You said she is afraid to get hurt again and so is romantically cautious. That's a start. What else?
    Last edited by StargateMillennium; February 12th, 2018 at 02:55 PM.

  14. #34
    Major General iiradned's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    Are her blue eyes a "Chekov's gun"? Meaning will they play a key role in the plot sometime later?

    The term "Chekov's gun" was used by playwright Anton Chekov to describe the removal of irrelevant and useless details in plays. Chekov wrote that in a play if a gun is singled out in act one, then sometime in the next act the gun must be fired or else why bring it to the attention of other characters or the audience.
    Stargate is life, Sam and Jack are happiness, Shippers are almighty!
    loves and loves right back.

    No w/o a and no w/o a
    It's an immutable law of the multiverse.

  15. #35
    You call that a glowstick?
    (Moderator)
    Skydiver's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    Tv shows and movies still do that....if the camera focuses on the cell phone being left behind then you will have a character that needs to call for help with that phone or the like

  16. #36
    First Lieutenant imzadi35's Avatar
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    Default Re: Got a question...

    I see your points. Yes, the eyes become important in the next story because it's one of the traits of the Ancients that all the healers on Danu got, including the knowledge of healing and their singing voice. But they're not the total focus. See, I've been looking for a beta for my story for a long time, and haven't been able to find one. So your ideas help me to refine my stories.
    Turas maith, slán abhaile
    (Safe Journey, Safe Home)

    John 3:16
    Sidney Freedman from M*A*S*H: "Ladies and gentlemen, take my advice, pull down your pants and slide on the ice."

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