Beyond the Wall (706)

[Gen. Chris]

In season 1 Jeor Mormont sent Aliser Thorne from the Wall towards King's Landing with the hand of one of the Wight's that attacked Mormont. It was a play to convince the crown that there WAS a major problem at the Wall and to send as many men as possible to man the wall (not necessarily take the black). Mormont also hoped that sending him would relieve some of the tension at the wall between Thorne and Jon, because Mormont was grooming Jon to be Lord Commander.

Thorne reached King's Landing but by the time he did the hand/arm had rotted too much (from being out of the cold) to really be of any use as evidence.

[Skydiver]

Which is why the wights are only a danger when winter comes. When it's summer they decompose too fast to be a real threat...just a skeleton too soon.

BUt when winter comes they can go further south and his army can grow larger because the dead last longer.

[SoulReaver]

Hi. I am a newbie here.

I just signed up today to this forum because I needed to find a group of hardcore GoT fans to help me sort out a Season 2 claim made by a friend of mine just two night ago while she and I were watching Episode 6. (BTW, she read the books, while I did not. So she definitely knows a lot more than I do about the whole GoT world.) She made a claim this past Sunday night about an allegedly important scene from HBO's GoT Season 2 which I honestly do not recall ever happening, and which multiple Google searches by me came up empty. (I am worried my friend is just silly in the head.)

Here's what happened.

She and I were watching Episode 6 together the other night (Sunday, August 20th), and at the end when Jon and Dany were talking on the ship heading back to Dragonstone, I made a comment about the lingering need for Jon Snow to show a White Walker to Cersei. There is no longer a need to capture a White Walker and show it to Dany because Dany has now seen with her own eyes. But they still need to convince Cersei.

But then my friend said "No, Cersei knows already." My friend went on to explain that back in Season 2, someone brought a severed White Walker hand to Cersei in King's Landing, and the hand was still animated, crawling, scratching, etc. I looked at my friend in complete surprise because I honestly did not recall such a scene. I said to her: "I recall Jaime's hand getting chopped off, and it was never recovered. And I also recall a severed animated hand crawling around in the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie. But I have no recollection of someone bringing a severed, animated zombie-ish hand to Cersei." She insisted it happened. So I said "Well then I'll scan YouTube for the exact film clip of that exact moment."

I went to YouTube the next day and searched for "Game of Thrones Hand" and "Game of Thrones Severed Hand" and so many other searches, and I came up with nothing. Can anyone help me? (Or was my friend getting her wires crossed the other night?)

Thanks!

-- HarrenHaller

Thorne taking the hand to KL is never shown onscreen but maybe it's mentioned somewhere in the script of one of the episodes

(since the hand was severed it had long since stopped twitching by the time he reached KL?)

[HarrenHaller]

In season 1 Jeor Mormont sent Aliser Thorne from the Wall towards King's Landing with the hand of one of the Wight's that attacked Mormont. It was a play to convince the crown that there WAS a major problem at the Wall and to send as many men as possible to man the wall (not necessarily take the black). Mormont also hoped that sending him would relieve some of the tension at the wall between Thorne and Jon, because Mormont was grooming Jon to be Lord Commander.

Thorne reached King's Landing but by the time he did the hand/arm had rotted too much (from being out of the cold) to really be of any use as evidence.

Thanks to everyone for clarifying. This post here in particular helped me do a more precise search in YouTube. I found this 2-minute video clip from (I think) Season 2. We see Jon Snow battle the lone White Walker, and then Ghost bites off the Walker's hand.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M2TlSM-2SyI



And then I found a scene from a fan compilation video of all of Ser Aliser's story line moments. There is a scene where Lord Mormont explains to Jon Snow that he has sent Ser Aliser to King's Landing with the hand that Jon Snow's wolf bit off of the White Walker. "The hand that your wolf tore off that thing's wrist, I've ordered Thorne to lay it at the feet of this boy king. That should get young Joffrey's attention, and it puts a thousand leagues between you and Thorne." I will post THAT video here, but be forewarned that this video compilation is 48 minutes long! The scene in question happens at 00:11:22

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vvFXvvkb9f8

And then ... I tried to find the actual moment when Ser Aliser goes to King's Landing with the severed hand. As has been stated above it appears that story point was never an actual onscreen part of the TV series, only the books. (And my friend read the books while I did not.)


So .... My original assertion remains. Cersei STILL needs convincing!!

[Skydiver]

Which is why they were trying to take one back. To drop it at cersei's feet and say 'see, ice zombies are real'. But will they suceed and even if they do, will she believe it? She's the mad queen now. She is fetched in the head and a wee bit off her rocker and totally unpredictible.

Even if she happens to agree to help i can see her only doing it if Jon AND Dany bow the knee and admit that she is the ruler of them all. Or she may happily let Jon and Dany fight the wights and sit back to easily conquer what few survivors there are.

Her obsession is to rule. And even if she were to set it aside and join forces, her end game would still be to rule them all....and I would not put 'death on the battlefield' beyond her actions (aka murdering Jon and Dany then blaming it on the fog of war or have an assassin kill them for her)

[fems]

I think she'll agree, send a part of her troops to join Jon and Dany's army and then sneak in for the kill (on the battlefield) and use the remained of her troops to get Dragonstone and possibly Winterfell back while everyone else is fighting the wights and white walkers.

[HarrenHaller]

I came upon a lot of fan theories yesterday, guys as I was researching this. I was especially focused on Uncle Benjen in my research. And then I developed my own fan theory. I am very late in the game coming up with a theory (millions of people have been theorizing every day for years now). So if greater minds than mine have already thunk this one up before me, I apologize for being slow. And if my theory is silly, by all means, let me know where the holes are to be found (I am at a disadvantage for trying to theorize since I have not read the books). Here's my hunch (and here below you will see me use a "spoiler formatting" I learned at a film web site years ago):
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POSSIBLE SPOILER!!!

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It was 25 years ago that the Mad King was slain, and then Robert took over the throne. But when the Mad King's died, he took a very important State Secret to his grave with him. And either the new King Robert was never told about this important State Secret, or else when he was told, he disregarded it completely, and so now that very very VERY important secret project / secret practice / State Secret is no longer being carried out.

The deep dark secret is that ....

POSSIBLE SPOILER!!

... the White Walker and the First Men used to be at war many thousands of years ago. But a truce was called and peace negotiations were worked out. The Wall was part of the truce. And the true duty of the Night's Watch is actually two-fold. Only half of the Night's Watch's responsibilities is to keep the White Walkers to the far far North. The other half is that they act as agents of human sacrifice to the White Walkers.

A select few of the highest ranking Night's Watch officers (including Uncle Benjen Stark!) are these agents. They aid and abet the regular sacrifice of humans to the White Walkers. The original terms of the armistice fro thousands of years ago are that on a regular basis (like maybe once every year), the Realms of Men will send a batch of humans are are deemed "undesirables" to the Wall. They get shuttled through the Wall to be offered as human sacrifices to the White Walkers. The White Walkers do not "eat" these humans. Instead they "assimilate" them, like the Borg --much like the discarded baby boy sons of Craster from Craster's Keep. This arrangement is convenient for both the humans and the Walkers. The humans get to dispose of "undesirables" while the Walkers get to "procreate" via this Borg-style form of assimilation, because (as has been suggested) Walkers cannot actually procreate the way humans can. Walkers need either to copulate with humans to have half-human children by them, or else need to Borg-assimilate humans into White Walkers.

The human sacrifice terms of this truce have been honored for thousands of years. But when the Targaryen Dynasty came to an end, the human sacrifices stopped. (Once again, either Robert never knew, or else disregarded it as total nonsense.) The truce has been broken. The White Walkers are in danger of dying out now for lack of human fodder for their population. So they have no other choice but to go to war against the humans all over again.

Over the past 25 years since Robert's Rebellion, the White Walkers have been amassing their Army of the Dead, and they have also been awaiting a new winter to arrive. Now that Winter is here, they will march on the Realms of Men, conquer them and enslave them. The Walkers will also bring an endless winter with them, covering the whole world with a permanent Winter, enslaving all humans for their purposes. This will be the end of Men. Unless the Walkers can be stopped.


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END SPOILERS

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