Appearance of the Ancient civilization

[Jaffa]

So I know that the Ancients are millions of years old and so is their technology, but I have always wondered something. The Goa'uld's technology (weapons, interiors, etc.) has a style found in the image below, on the doors:

http://i.imgur.com/bJ93r44.jpg

If you remember this kind of style or theme/paint whatever is found on the DHD and on the walls here (which I love this style btw):

http://i.imgur.com/KSv1U1O.jpg

It makes sense that the Goa'uld have this theme also because of how they attained and created all of their technology.

However if you take a look at Atlantis their stuff looked more like this:

http://i.imgur.com/ztJHKwA.jpg

Now Atlantis is millions of years old yet the second image has the device that gives the user all the knowledge of the Ancients. My question is does this mean that the wall theme found in the second image right before the Ancients ascended? Or did the show just change their theme down the line when we begun to see more and more Ancient technology? I personally liked it when they were more mysterious, like the Forerunners from Halo (before we were told everything about them).

Sorry if this seems like a silly question. Thanks for reading and replying.

Edit: I just realised that the DHD has this theme but it was like that millions of years ago, when they left Earth in Atlantis. I guess this means that the show just changed their style when they became more frequent?

[aretood2]

In the early seasons Ancient devices and control panel's look like they are made out of stone. Nothing in Atlantis looks like that. Those early designs are closer to Goauld than not. I personally don't think it is possible to develop a coherent in-universe explanation with out simply using a handwave and saying "Different times, different styles".

[StargateMillennium]

In the early seasons Ancient devices and control panel's look like they are made out of stone. Nothing in Atlantis looks like that. Those early designs are closer to Goauld than not. I personally don't think it is possible to develop a coherent in-universe explanation with out simply using a handwave and saying "Different times, different styles".

Well, you could also say different subcultures different styles. I mean, I know of a few countries that have vastly different architectures and cultures but are still one entity technically.

[thekillman]

In the early seasons Ancient devices and control panel's look like they are made out of stone. Nothing in Atlantis looks like that. Those early designs are closer to Goauld than not. I personally don't think it is possible to develop a coherent in-universe explanation with out simply using a handwave and saying "Different times, different styles".

I don't see why we have to assume that a 50-million-year-old civilization all used the exact same aesthetic for everything all the time.

The headgrabbers look more like something out of ALIEN, most MW stuff looks more like its made of stone and most Lantean stuff looks metallic, except their ships which have earthly colors.

Really, the ancients are allowed to practice multiple styles. On earth alone we have dozens.

[aretood2]

I don't see why we have to assume that a 50-million-year-old civilization all used the exact same aesthetic for everything all the time.

The headgrabbers look more like something out of ALIEN, most MW stuff looks more like its made of stone and most Lantean stuff looks metallic, except their ships which have earthly colors.

Really, the ancients are allowed to practice multiple styles. On earth alone we have dozens.

Different times, different styles. Sure I guess, it just doesn't seem to me to jab well with the way things work in that universe.

[mikeroq]

It gets confusing. There are three main styles.

Alteran galaxy/MW galaxy stone stuff.
Destiny fancy stuff.
Atlantis Fancy stuff.

Rough Timeline maybe:
Ancients come here from their galaxy.

Destiny is built sometime on Earth? Destiny and seed ships are sent off.

Taonas outpost is built in Modern Atlantis style.
Atlantis is built?

A plague rolls in.

Time bubble device is built as a means to rewrite history. Has stone control device.

Atlantis says see ya. On to Pegasus.

Dakara device is created to reseed life in the Milky Way. Has Stone control device.

Atlantis in pegasus. Modern and fancy.

The wraith overwhelm the Lanteans. They flee to Earth. Merlin included.

Merlin. King Arthur. Stone control device in England. Stone control device in Camelot. Back to stone.


It's said the outpost/City on Praclarush was one of the first Ancient settlements in the Milky way. It's in Atlantis style. Then later while Atlantis is around at an unknown time the build the time bubble device and Dakara. They have the stone style.

The real reason for all this inconsistency is that they wanted the shows to have different styles. So when they came up with Atlantis they wanted to have a new style and fancier stuff. Then they came out with Universe and they again did this again.

It gets all wonky because they say Atlantis was in Antarctica "Several million years ago". The Lanteans left it 10,000 years ago. Damn that is one old city. Then of course they say Destiny launched from Earth 50 million years ago. It's also said Earth was the second planet the Alterans colonized after Dakara. Ugh lol.

[aretood2]

It gets confusing. There are three main styles.

Alteran galaxy/MW galaxy stone stuff.
Destiny fancy stuff.
Atlantis Fancy stuff.

Rough Timeline maybe:
Ancients come here from their galaxy.

Destiny is built sometime on Earth? Destiny and seed ships are sent off.

Taonas outpost is built in Modern Atlantis style.
Atlantis is built?

A plague rolls in.

Time bubble device is built as a means to rewrite history. Has stone control device.

Atlantis says see ya. On to Pegasus.

Dakara device is created to reseed life in the Milky Way. Has Stone control device.

Atlantis in pegasus. Modern and fancy.

The wraith overwhelm the Lanteans. They flee to Earth. Merlin included.

Merlin. King Arthur. Stone control device in England. Stone control device in Camelot. Back to stone.


It's said the outpost/City on Praclarush was one of the first Ancient settlements in the Milky way. It's in Atlantis style. Then later while Atlantis is around at an unknown time the build the time bubble device and Dakara. They have the stone style.

The real reason for all this inconsistency is that they wanted the shows to have different styles. So when they came up with Atlantis they wanted to have a new style and fancier stuff. Then they came out with Universe and they again did this again.

It gets all wonky because they say Atlantis was in Antarctica "Several million years ago". The Lanteans left it 10,000 years ago. Damn that is one old city. Then of course they say Destiny launched from Earth 50 million years ago. It's also said Earth was the second planet the Alterans colonized after Dakara. Ugh lol.

You just articulated why it didn't jab with me. It's flip floppy. Destiny isn't fancy, it's more familiar dirty future style if you ask me.

[Xaeden]

With Destiny, it seems they were trying to retcon away the established length of Ancient civilization as they did not actually say it was built over 50 million years ago (even though we know it likely had to be for that line about Earth's DHD to be accurate). Rather, they, at one point, said "hundreds of thousands of years ago" and at another point said "a million years ago." My impression is that the writers were embarrassed by the length of time they used previously and were trying to downplay things to make it more believable for newer viewers. And fair enough, the millions of years of civilization bit and all that entails, including the insane length of time at which Ancient technology can last (even when not nigh indestructible like the Stargates) is indeed ridiculous. However, they also did it for an important reason in the first place, which was to explain how Ancients and humans looked the same; in order for the Ancients to have caused a second evolution of their form on Earth, they would have had to have been around for millions of years.

[aretood2]

With Destiny, it seems they were trying to retcon away the established length of Ancient civilization as they did not actually say it was built over 50 million years ago (even though we know it likely had to be for that line about Earth's DHD to be accurate). Rather, they, at one point, said "hundreds of thousands of years ago" and at another point said "a million years ago." My impression is that the writers were embarrassed by the length of time they used previously and were trying to downplay things to make it more believable for newer viewers. And fair enough, the millions of years of civilization bit and all that entails, including the insane length of time at which Ancient technology can last (even when not nigh indestructible like the Stargates) is indeed ridiculous. However, they also did it for an important reason in the first place, which was to explain how Ancients and humans looked the same; in order for the Ancients to have caused a second evolution of their form on Earth, they would have had to have been around for millions of years.

Really, a few million years was all they needed. 3.5 million, I think. I always assumed that humans were created by them, not so much "evolved" which would be insanely complicated to do for a civilization that advanced when they could simply create the first humans.

50 Million isn't a bad number just because of the longevity of Ancient tech and architecture, but because it is simply too long for just about any reason. The Ancients that left their original home in Ark of Truth, shouldn't look like the Ancients that Weir met in Atlantis...unless they purposefully kept their bodies from evolving through extensive genetic engineering. And then that begs a few more questions...

The issue with the Wraith...so they didn't notice the wraith evolving? Was Ancient population growth near zero? After a million years, the Pegasus Galaxy would have been totally populated by ancients. Remember, Atlantis left 50 Million years ago. What were they doing that whole time? Carefully calculating how many kids to have per generation so that they don't accidentally colonize the entire Galaxy in the first few million years? Did they also plan on not monitoring and studying all life within that time or setting up a system to do that that might accidentally detect such a threat? And at what point did they "seed" humans in Pegasus? When did they loose contact/ties with the Milky Way Ancients? Did they always ignore them?

No teleportation? 50 million years and no beaming tech beyond rings and fancy elevator transporters? I could go on...

[Xaeden]

Really, a few million years was all they needed. 3.5 million, I think. I always assumed that humans were created by them, not so much "evolved" which would be insanely complicated to do for a civilization that advanced when they could simply create the first humans.

Well that's what the Dakara device was for; it somehow remade life on Earth so that humans could evolve from it. It's still wonky science as all life on Earth is biologically connected to humans and yet humans are (save one gene) identical to Ancients. Are the Ancients supposed to have recreated all life to be this way and if so how does the fossil record then fit in? In short, it's not their best explanation for why budgetary constraints forced them to use human actors for yet another alien species, but that's what they did. And this would have happened 5-10 million years ago (not 50 million years ago - see below for more details) because that's when Atlantis left Earth to escape the plague. The same plague that prompted the use of the Dakara device.

50 Million isn't a bad number just because of the longevity of Ancient tech and architecture, but because it is simply too long for just about any reason. The Ancients that left their original home in Ark of Truth, shouldn't look like the Ancients that Weir met in Atlantis...unless they purposefully kept their bodies from evolving through extensive genetic engineering. And then that begs a few more questions...

Yes, the idea that the Ancients would stop evolving physically at some point and only continue to evolve mentally was another problem. I too have noted before that you could maybe say they genetically engineered away physical changes if it helps to suspend disbelief, but it's a thin thread.

The issue with the Wraith...so they didn't notice the wraith evolving? Was Ancient population growth near zero? After a million years, the Pegasus Galaxy would have been totally populated by ancients. Remember, Atlantis left 50 Million years ago. What were they doing that whole time? Carefully calculating how many kids to have per generation so that they don't accidentally colonize the entire Galaxy in the first few million years? Did they also plan on not monitoring and studying all life within that time or setting up a system to do that that might accidentally detect such a threat? And at what point did they "seed" humans in Pegasus? When did they loose contact/ties with the Milky Way Ancients? Did they always ignore them?

From Rising:

JACKSON: I figure the Ancients packed up their entire city and left somewhere between five and ten million years ago.

At least 50 million years is the estimated age of Earth's original DHD's power source. Meaning, Ancients had possibly been on Earth for over 50 million years since we also know that Earth was colonized early on. Atlantis didn't leave Earth until 5-10 million years ago and because they left to escape the plague (remember, we see them leave plague infested Ayiana behind - presumably she was trying to warn them), there wouldn't have been anyone left to keep in contact with. If other Milky Way Ancients weren't also able to flee to Pegasus (we don't know that Atlantis was the only plague free ship to make the journey), they would've died or ascended. So there wasn't anybody to ignore, but they did seem to consider the Milky Way off limits until 10,000 years ago since we know that they were then hoping to find enough remains of their old civilization to rebuild and were surprised when they did not. It makes sense, though, that they wouldn't have wanted to risk running into remnants of the plague just in case it was still lingering somewhere (which it was... in Ayiana's frozen body).

As for recolonizing the Pegasus galaxy; this is just my impression, but I always felt like the goal was less to rebuild their full glory and more about completing their work before also ascending. Namely, helping humans to grow into their successors. Hence, things like "The Game" where the Ancients created an experiment that allowed them to give the development of a human civilization a bit of a series of pushes and why they spread humans around in the first place.

Nevertheless, as far as we can tell the Ancients never colonized every world that they put a gate on in the Milky Way either. In this case, though, it seems that their intent was to split the galaxy between themselves and the humans that they seeded. On one of those world's was the Iratus bug and according to the Atlantis hologram, the Ancients had no idea that by seeding humans there they created the Wraith until one day they stepped back on that world and not only found them, but unleashed them on the galaxy:

"Then one day our people stepped foot upon a dark world where a terrible enemy slept. Never before had we encountered beings with powers that rivaled our own. In our over-confidence, we were unprepared and outnumbered."

How exactly they came to have technology is much less clear. My best guess is that the above quote is comparing technological power to brute force power and the Wraith at first spread through the gate system on foot, and the Ancients couldn't figure out how to eradicate them all. I've speculated before that maybe spacegates were made with the intent to stop their spread, but the project was halted part of the way through because the Wraith countered this strategy by developing ships. As to how they could so quickly do so, there's actually a simple explanation: Wraith Worshipers. The Wraith had the ability to capture existing technologically capable humans (and maybe even some Ancients) and make them work for them. Hell, it could be that their organic ship designs was originally created by a lost human civilization and it's a coincidence that they seem to fit the Wraith so well. Like I said, though, this part is massively speculative.