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Thread: Kapiushon (517)

  1. #1
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    Post Kapiushon (517)

    Visit the Episode GuideARROW - SEASON FIVE
    KAPIUSHON
    EPISODE NUMBER - 517
    Prometheus brutally tortures a captive Oliver, demanding that he admit his deepest secret. Five years ago in Russia Oliver and Anatoly discover that Konstantin Kovar is plotting to overthrow the Russian government, while Oliver tries to honor a promise.

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    Last edited by GateWorld; March 23rd, 2017 at 09:35 PM.

  2. #2
    Major General
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    Default Re: Kapiushon (517)

    So oli has a deep dark secret. HE enjoys killing.. Well seeing how he's killed all over the place, that is not surprising!

    BUT has he not been working to expunge that side of him, by going his more 'gentiler way of doing things??

    AND man, was Promethus a dick to Evlin..

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    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kapiushon (517)

    This was another good episode by Arrow standards, but I still can't help but get the feeling the overall theme the writers are going for is still undermined by their own bad decisions. Prometheus' point is that Oliver's evil love of killing infects those around him and gets his loved ones killed. He even mentions Laurel by name. So are we supposed to remember the fact that she died as a direct result of him not killing someone he should have?

    I mentioned this elsewhere but, you can't really make a case that killing is always wrong if you write the story in such a way that makes sparing a person's life have more terrible consequences than all the times he's killed people combined.

    It's hard to make sense of Oliver's character having a love of killing when he's totally inconsistent on that point. He loves killing, but for some unexplained reason will never kill the one person he himself admits he wants to kill the most?

    I mean even to this day, Oliver's nonsensical choice to spare Malcom's life continues to make everything worse and worse. Not only did Laurel die because of it. Not only did America suffer a nuclear attack that killed tens of thousands of people, but now the Legion of Doom just erased all of reality and replaced it with their own.

    What's worse is that they didn't even have to write things that way, but they still did.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

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    Default Re: Kapiushon (517)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    This was another good episode by Arrow standards, but I still can't help but get the feeling the overall theme the writers are going for is still undermined by their own bad decisions. Prometheus' point is that Oliver's evil love of killing infects those around him and gets his loved ones killed. He even mentions Laurel by name. So are we supposed to remember the fact that she died as a direct result of him not killing someone he should have?
    Also, you have slade.. He killed MOM, but it wasn't on Oli for not killing him. Wasn't he already "Dead" or so they thought?

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    I mentioned this elsewhere but, you can't really make a case that killing is always wrong if you write the story in such a way that makes sparing a person's life have more terrible consequences than all the times he's killed people combined.
    Its why i often rail against judges when they make hair brain decisions that release KNOWN crooks onto the streets, say on a low ass bail amount, who then go on to kill someone again WHILE on bail. IMO those judges should be seen as accessories to that murder..

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    It's hard to make sense of Oliver's character having a love of killing when he's totally inconsistent on that point. He loves killing, but for some unexplained reason will never kill the one person he himself admits he wants to kill the most?

    I mean even to this day, Oliver's nonsensical choice to spare Malcom's life continues to make everything worse and worse. Not only did Laurel die because of it. Not only did America suffer a nuclear attack that killed tens of thousands of people, but now the Legion of Doom just erased all of reality and replaced it with their own.

    What's worse is that they didn't even have to write things that way, but they still did.
    Exactly. YES in S1 he was a pure unadulterated killer. BUT SINCE he has done all he can to avoid killing if at all possible.. SO WHERE exactly is his supposed love of killing that Promethus is on about coming from?

  5. #5
    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Kapiushon (517)

    The Slade thing kind of fits the moral of the story a bit better, because he had the chance to cure him back on Lian Yu, but instead chose to try to kill him after he threatened his family. You could make a case that if he hadn't done that, things might have turned out differently. Then again, we will never know what would have happened, so we he can't say that for certain, and even Slade himself seems to suggest othewise.

    Superhero stories, by their very nature, usually require a certain amount of suspension of disbelief when it comes to issues like the morality and acceptability of vigilante justice.

    If you accept that premise, then in my opinion, the question of whether or not to use lethal force doesn't have a one-size-fits-all answer. You can't be going around killing every villain you see, but sometimes it's necessary to stop the bad guy or prevent a greater evil.

    The problem is that Oliver's bloodlust only makes sense half the time. The way I put it is that: He kills people that he probably shouldn't, but then doesn't kill people that he probably should.
    Last edited by Infinite-Possibilities; March 24th, 2017 at 07:13 PM.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Kapiushon (517)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    Superhero stories, by their very nature, usually require a certain amount of suspension of disbelief when it comes to issues like the morality and acceptability of vigilante justice.

    If you accept that premise, then in my opinion, the question of whether or not to use lethal force doesn't have a one-size-fits-all answer. You can't be going around killing every villain you see, but sometimes it's necessary to stop the bad guy or prevent a greater evil.
    Very true. Some baddies just need to be wasted, cause they ain't coming back/getting redeemed. While others CAN be. Who's worthy of killing is one of the biggest things i LOVE about watching these shows/reading the comics.. The Struggle the heroes have about those sorts of calls..

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    The problem is that Oliver's bloodlust only makes sense half the time. The way I put it is that: He kills people that he probably shouldn't, but then doesn't kill people that probably should.
    Especially early on in his career.. He killed quite a few that probably could have just been ko-ed..

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