Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

[Cluas]

Interesting theories. I think it will be exciting to see what happens next ...

[Ian-S]

...and episode 7 causes the internet to implode.

I thought the body being built in the lab was a replacement for

Spoiler:

the woman Bernard killed, but it looks like she really is dead from the preview, I wonder if that is a replacement for Elsie?

[VampyreWraith]

Episode 7 was great. Westworld has become one of my favorite shows and it's been renewed for a second season, YAY!

http://deadline.com/2016/11/westworl...bo-1201853994/

[Ian-S]

Awesome but considering how long it was for season 1 filming to transmission, I doubt we'll see season 2 until 2018, but I'd prefer to wait I think, the effort that has gone into this is astoundingly high, and they're not dumbing anything down at all for the viewer.

[Cluas]

Personally I will have trouble with waiting that long... It really also depends on the direction of the last 3 episodes...
But I liked ep 7 a lot. I just need to know what happened to Elsie ...

[krylite]

It's now my favorite sci-fi show in a long time. I just wish they didn't have to need so much nudity. I know there's that running theory of William being the MIB. But I don't see it. Dolores had flashbacks of the MIB before she ran away and stumbled on William and Logan The Wyatt narrative seems to take place in the present with the ruined church steeple already in the ground. Looking forward to the last episode and continuation for the 2nd season whenever it comes. Hopefully the world doesn't fall apart before then , haha.

[Ian-S]

Spoiler:

There was a fade to black between Dolores killing GTA5 and her stumbling upon William and Logan, the popular concenous is the fade to black is a indicator of the timeline/storytime changing from present to past, there was an example of this in the last episode too right after Maeve says "time to write my own story", it fades to black, then fades back in to Dolores and William approaching the burried town on horseback.

Later in that act she has a flashback to the town where the staff are training the androids to dance, but just before that, there is a very brief shot of her facing the town and it's completely empty, there is then a strange sepia type transition to a populated town, and eventually its revealed the town is burried and she has her mini meltdown about Arnold.

So its not safe to assume the flashback of MiB she had in the barn before escaping happened in the same timeframe as the following scene where she stumbled across W&L (remember that scene she flashed back to happened in episode one when MiB killed Teddy) conventional storytelling techniques suggests the two scenes are chronological, but this is a Nolan show and history tells us you cannot trust anybody in that family to tellba story in a linear fashion.

I suspect what is hapenning is Dolores is retracing her journey with William through reliving the memories, we occasionally see a shot of her alone, or a mirrored third person perspective of her looking at herself doing something, whatever journey she is on is in the same "time" as MiB and Teddy but it's being told to us from her perspective as reliving the memories of her time with William.

So I think William is MiB and eventually she will meet MiB in present time on his journey, William will initially be shown to be standing next to her, the internet will then explode with cries of "told you there was only one timeline", only for a few seconds later for it to be revealed, in the same manor the hidden door was to Bernard, that William was never with her at all and was just a memory, she will probably call out for William, only for MiB to answer "I'm here", the internet will then explode for a second time.

Remember both Theresa and the Delos board chick complained that Ford had recently dug up an old town on the fringes of the park, and Ford himself told Teddy there was some truth to his new Wyatt back story, I.e. Wyatt is based on Dolores or Arnold's actions which ultimately led to Arnolds death, which is the memory of the village being slaughtered the victims of it keep having, however every one of them has a different memory of who Wyatt is, likly to be revealed as Arnold to us eventually after they toy with us for a bit by showing it from several different perspectives.

Remember that Hector, Angela, Maeve, Armistice and Dolores are all present in the 'Androids do Strictly Come Dancing" group dance scene.

Post contains speculation/spoilers up to episode 8 in relation to post above.

[P-90_177]

Spoiler:

I'm starting to come up with another theory that while William is MiB, Teddy is also another version of William. I believe that whatever happens to William and Dolores on their journey results in William needing to leave to live his life, but when his and Logan's company take over Westworld, he arranges for his personality and his affection for Dolores to be put into a new host, that being Teddy.

[Ian-S]

Yes, there are similarities:

Spoiler:

they both 'wake up' on the train
Both walk into the same host in Sweetwater
Both pick up the can
Both appear to love Dolores.

But I'm not sure it's Logan, I think it was Ford made Teddy in Williams image to stop Dolores going off loop each evening and keep her on script. Don't forget the Delos terms of service state they own everything you leave in the park, such as skin cells, blood, semen etc. and Bill did play VRSex with Dolores on the train...

Ep 9 spoiler / E10 speculation:

Spoiler:

I don't think Logan is going to leave the park alive, he's going to be the catastrophic failure Bernard was talking about, Dolores is going to finish him off next episode, she only had to be an inch or two lower in this episode and she'd had slit his jugular open instead of his cheek...

[Cluas]

Wow. Episode 9 pretty much confirmed many of the theories floating around. I had it figured out, but I was totally excited regardless. I haven't seen tv as good as this for a long while. Excellent writing, excellent acting...

The finale will be 90 minutes.
Plenty of time for action. And answering the last few questions...

[krylite]

shoot. I was wrong about the MIB theory. I did get who Arnold was right since ep. 3 in my mind. How the show fooled me about MIB.

Spoiler:

There are at least three major timeless the show fluctuates around the central character of Dolores. I was fooled into thinking there were just two. In the second episode, Ford and Benard are seen walking the desert to the buried church and town in the sand.
In the last episode, Dolores makes it to the buried church with William, but it's still buried.
What got me fooled was in the current episode, the present Dolores finds the church and town recently rebuilt with Ford's new narrative. Then finally comes MIB/William.
The three major timelines:
1) The original first timeline where Arnold in his all black clothes introduces Dolores to the maze. Armistice is also one of the first, but she's all glitchy from the bicameral system and so ends up shunted to outlaw gang for the rest of her story. Dolores like Maeve in the present does the first rebellion and kills Arnold as revealed (and maybe seen later in the upcoming last episode).

2) The middle timeline - The financial crisis of westworld with William and Logan's adventure where William somehow ends up taking over Delos and saving westworld financially as the "money people". He becomes the MIB robot sadist as we are seeing. I missed it because I kept thinking Dolores winding up with William in the night campfire was just after she ran from home. And the scene with the buried church Ford and Benard are walking to.

3) The present timeline - The Wyatt narrative done by Ford maybe attempting to flush out Arnold in whatever form he exists. MIB/William realizes Dolores and others were involved with the maze game all this time and wants to figure it out before Ford and himself are too old to play with the park anymore. Dolores has flashbacks ranging from the the two major timelines but also within recent weeks due to the revelries code allowing retaining memories. The show doesn't say when the flashbacks take place so hard to tell when events in the flashbacks are taking place and so hard to keept track of events to prove William = MIB.

Similar to the Benard clues, an early clue was when MIB was telling Lawrence at the hanging meeting that they had been friends, hearkening back to their early adventure particularly the scene where Lawrence tells Billy and Dolores in the train caboose they're all "friends".

[krylite]

Post contains speculation/spoilers up to episode 8 in relation to post above.

Yeah, now I think you're right about MIB. Rewatching ep.2 I could clearly hear "remember" probably by Arnold
in Dolores' mind before the scene segues to the first shot of William in the highspeed rail.
Why do the cuter girls never make it to the lead roles? lol. I think the first lady in white which Logan
calls a "2", and replacement Clemintine are hotter..

[Ian-S]

Yes very clever editing threw a lot off, infact I still think a lot of viewers have not made the connection as Dolores hasn't yet either.

The trouble with the young pretty ones is they know it and often wouldn't fit the role, Armistice and Thandie Newton are more "mature" and in my view are arguable more attractive than the chicks, especially Thandie, she is super hot for someone barely a few weeks younger than me and who's had three kids lol

Everybody is in the

Spoiler:

first timeline (Dolores and Arnold), Armistice, Maeve, Angela (2), Hector (he's in the slaughter and flashback Ford had of the time), Peter (downstairs), the old guy with one eye William digs out the mud (the General), they're all in the massacre or close by, I think the whole point is the malfunctioning droids are all mk1 models.

I actually wonder if the new narrative is a trap to scoop up the crazy droids and get them off the park into col storage to stop their insurrection.

[krylite]

Yes I get Thandie is the seasoned madam. I'm impressed enough with her effectiveness in her role also as the awakened host. Well, those cuter girls I mentioned I felt they could be interchanged with who they have now. So I'm corrected about some of the ladies since I find Armistice and Wood pretty fine.

I noticed Armistice, Maeve in the original town flashback but missed the others. I'd have to rewatch the flashbacks in the prior episodes to make sure. I like how in the prior episode Dolores and William see the buried church. The angle from above reminds me of the last bit of Planet of the Apes. Yes, the casual viewers could still have a nice shock in the finale.

Spoiler:

I noticed in "Trace Decay" prior episode, MIB's speech about his wife that they were married for 30 years. So it seems to fit the 30+ years ago theory of Dolores and William. And also showing MIB killing homestead Maeve and her breakdown in the mesa where Ford is close to the same age as current day. Now to see if the church and Escalante/1st gen town, was just rebuilt in the recent weeks as the buried church primarily threw me off into not believing William=MIB for most of the episodes. So many clues peppered throughout the season where rewatching makes it look more obvious. Maybe too many clues, but done well enough for many to stay unaware until the reveals.

[Ian-S]

I've had to watch each episode three times just to understand everything.

I think we can agree every girl is very tasty, no need to argue that point