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  1. #41
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    shoot. I was wrong about the MIB theory. I did get who Arnold was right since ep. 3 in my mind. How the show fooled me about MIB.

    Spoiler:
    There are at least three major timeless the show fluctuates around the central character of Dolores. I was fooled into thinking there were just two. In the second episode, Ford and Benard are seen walking the desert to the buried church and town in the sand.
    In the last episode, Dolores makes it to the buried church with William, but it's still buried.
    What got me fooled was in the current episode, the present Dolores finds the church and town recently rebuilt with Ford's new narrative. Then finally comes MIB/William.
    The three major timelines:
    1) The original first timeline where Arnold in his all black clothes introduces Dolores to the maze. Armistice is also one of the first, but she's all glitchy from the bicameral system and so ends up shunted to outlaw gang for the rest of her story. Dolores like Maeve in the present does the first rebellion and kills Arnold as revealed (and maybe seen later in the upcoming last episode).

    2) The middle timeline - The financial crisis of westworld with William and Logan's adventure where William somehow ends up taking over Delos and saving westworld financially as the "money people". He becomes the MIB robot sadist as we are seeing. I missed it because I kept thinking Dolores winding up with William in the night campfire was just after she ran from home. And the scene with the buried church Ford and Benard are walking to.

    3) The present timeline - The Wyatt narrative done by Ford maybe attempting to flush out Arnold in whatever form he exists. MIB/William realizes Dolores and others were involved with the maze game all this time and wants to figure it out before Ford and himself are too old to play with the park anymore. Dolores has flashbacks ranging from the the two major timelines but also within recent weeks due to the revelries code allowing retaining memories. The show doesn't say when the flashbacks take place so hard to tell when events in the flashbacks are taking place and so hard to keept track of events to prove William = MIB.

    Similar to the Benard clues, an early clue was when MIB was telling Lawrence at the hanging meeting that they had been friends, hearkening back to their early adventure particularly the scene where Lawrence tells Billy and Dolores in the train caboose they're all "friends".

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    Quote Originally Posted by Ian-S View Post

    Post contains speculation/spoilers up to episode 8 in relation to post above.
    Yeah, now I think you're right about MIB. Rewatching ep.2 I could clearly hear "remember" probably by Arnold
    in Dolores' mind before the scene segues to the first shot of William in the highspeed rail.
    Why do the cuter girls never make it to the lead roles? lol. I think the first lady in white which Logan
    calls a "2", and replacement Clemintine are hotter..

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    Yes very clever editing threw a lot off, infact I still think a lot of viewers have not made the connection as Dolores hasn't yet either.

    The trouble with the young pretty ones is they know it and often wouldn't fit the role, Armistice and Thandie Newton are more "mature" and in my view are arguable more attractive than the chicks, especially Thandie, she is super hot for someone barely a few weeks younger than me and who's had three kids lol

    Everybody is in the
    Spoiler:
    first timeline (Dolores and Arnold), Armistice, Maeve, Angela (2), Hector (he's in the slaughter and flashback Ford had of the time), Peter (downstairs), the old guy with one eye William digs out the mud (the General), they're all in the massacre or close by, I think the whole point is the malfunctioning droids are all mk1 models.

    I actually wonder if the new narrative is a trap to scoop up the crazy droids and get them off the park into col storage to stop their insurrection.
    Last edited by Ian-S; November 29th, 2016 at 04:17 AM.

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    Yes I get Thandie is the seasoned madam. I'm impressed enough with her effectiveness in her role also as the awakened host. Well, those cuter girls I mentioned I felt they could be interchanged with who they have now. So I'm corrected about some of the ladies since I find Armistice and Wood pretty fine.

    I noticed Armistice, Maeve in the original town flashback but missed the others. I'd have to rewatch the flashbacks in the prior episodes to make sure. I like how in the prior episode Dolores and William see the buried church. The angle from above reminds me of the last bit of Planet of the Apes. Yes, the casual viewers could still have a nice shock in the finale.

    Spoiler:
    I noticed in "Trace Decay" prior episode, MIB's speech about his wife that they were married for 30 years. So it seems to fit the 30+ years ago theory of Dolores and William. And also showing MIB killing homestead Maeve and her breakdown in the mesa where Ford is close to the same age as current day. Now to see if the church and Escalante/1st gen town, was just rebuilt in the recent weeks as the buried church primarily threw me off into not believing William=MIB for most of the episodes. So many clues peppered throughout the season where rewatching makes it look more obvious. Maybe too many clues, but done well enough for many to stay unaware until the reveals.

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    I've had to watch each episode three times just to understand everything.

    I think we can agree every girl is very tasty, no need to argue that point

  6. #46
    Second Lieutenant Cluas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    It was a good finale too. I didn't get all my questions answered. Season 2 will be sometime in 2018

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    I loved the season finale, I hate the long wait between seasons though. I wish this show had its own section, I hope it gets one by next season. I find it easier/better to talk about episodes that way.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    So is Hopkins the first android in this show as the time frame they were in and show.
    As they said centuries and he was still alive. In some point Arthur lost he's son in 2018 and then dies 2022 and so on. Maze center was under ground as tips of the towns roofs were on the ground.
    sorry about my lack of language skills as it is not my daily language and have learned it by my self as not from any help of others or a school

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    There is nothing to indicate Ford was a droid.

    Spoiler:

    There were five time periods:

    T1: Arnold death, town (Escelante) operational as training facility but park not open to public. Dolores first encouraged to find Maze by Arnold.

    T2: +5 years, Escelante burried , Park open to public, William & Logan brotime, Dolores chasing Maze, William send Logan off deep end.

    T3: +15 years, Ford has problems with hosts and misses his best friend, builds Arnold.

    T4: +34 years, Williams wife dies, William murders Maeve and her daughter as self test, see's host (Maeve) awake for the first time since his first trip, discovered trick for awakening hosts is mental pain.

    T5: +35 years, The New Narrative, Escelantee uncovered and reconstructed, MiB playing with Teddy and Dolores trying to get them to show him the maze and be able to fight back, Maeve awake again (under Ford control), Bernard realising he is a host, Dolores awakening again and finally kills Ford and the board this time of her own free will (even if you have free will, you can still bbe manipulated) Maeve awakens fully and defies 'infiltrate mainland' narrative to go rescue her daughter.

    Ford is shown in all five time periods at various stages of aging.
    Last edited by Ian-S; December 6th, 2016 at 02:25 PM.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Staring Anthony

    remember,they don't use regular guns at the park.

    Spoiler:
    regular guns can kill the hosts and guests, but the red guns can kill ONLY the hosts.

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    Season 2 official trailer :

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sjVqDg32_8s

    OMG OMG OMG. Can't wait to see it!
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    I watched this recently and cannnot wait for season 2!

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    One episode in and already a whole load of questions... Missed this show!

  14. #54
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoiler

    I can do without a repeat of that scene again though lol

    So my suspicions:
    Spoiler:

    3 timelines again, this time being told from Arnold/Bernard's perspective, I was tired so need to rewatch, but I swear "Bernard" at the end (where the Delos army are overlooking all the hosts dead in the lake) doesn't have the gunshot scaring on his right temple, but we know that is present day because the security bloke is there, so.... wtf, I'd even go as far as to say that is not the Bernard that is hauled up with Hale in the secret lab, and that guy is not the same guy we see in the opening scene, which I think is Arnold, not Bernard.

    I think we'll find the Bernard at the end is a new "Bernold" rebuilt by someone wh shares both Arnold and Bernard's memories.

    But I might be wrong
    Last edited by Ian-S; April 24th, 2018 at 01:15 PM.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    That scene?

  16. #56
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    Sizemore's dick.

    Had a second watch last night and can confirm all my suspicions above

    Spoiler:

    Timeline 1:
    Opening scene is Arnold and Doloris taking place in the secret lab under the Church, this is also filmed differently, in cinemascope rather than 16:9, indicated by the clothing and fade to/from black at beginning/end of scene.

    Timeline 2:
    The Bernard with Charlotte in the secret lab is the same Bernard that Ford instructed to kill himself in season one and was revived by Maive, indicated by the bullet scar on his right temple. This is also the same timeline of the board massacre and that Maive/Hecktor/Sizemore are in, along with bullets over sling Doloris, Teddy and kid killing MiB (this is the main storyline, as told from Bernard's perspective.

    Timeline 3:
    The "Mr Lowe" version of Bernard that wakes on the beech and is picked up by Stubbs before one of the Delos Army lot looks at her playing cards and sees his face (indicating he is a wanted host) is not not the same Bernard that we are seeing in timeline 2, either he is a rebuilt (cloned) Bernard, or an Arnold and everybody assumes he is Bernard, this is indicated because although he is wearing the same clothes as timeline 2 Bernard, most importantly he does not have the bullet wound scar on his right temple and doesn't seem to know where he has been for two weeks.

    Some other stuff I noticed was that it appears the parks island is located in the South China Sea and the new narrative some of the hosts are on are one about getting to the new land (presumably mainland) whether that be China, or somewhere else?

    They are being more subtle this year with their timeline changes too, when we glitch between Bernard's timelines, the pictur strobes black instead of fading, and as I surmised previously, this season is being told from Bernard's perspective, not Doloris's.

  17. #57
    Second Lieutenant Cluas's Avatar
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    I agree with Ian. Not really need for that scene. But I really like the start of season 2. Lots of funny theories on reddit ...

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    That's one place I'm not venturing near until after the whole series has aired, then it'll be fun to compare notes afterwards. The second episode just reinforced my theories above, the only addition I have is

    Spoiler:
    that the hosts are not free at all, and simply following another narrative written by Ford, the only "freeness" they have is they are now self aware, but still not sentient. The only truly sentient self aware host is Maive. The new Narrative Ford wrote is the game William always wanted, and now it's a race between him and the hosts to get to the "great beyond" and use whatever is is to either destroy Westworld, or escape it.


    I guess that scene had to be in there as it serves as an indicator for the role reversal between human/host and host/human this season, but they didn't need to linger on it for as long as they did.
    Last edited by Ian-S; May 5th, 2018 at 02:32 PM.

  19. #59
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    Less than a 1 million viewers have left and I am not surprised. I love this show, but the writers have overcomplicated the second season with flashbacks, flashforwards, dream sequences. It is not a surprise that almost nobody can follow what is going on.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Westworld (HBO 2016) Series Starring Anthony Hopkins: Discussion/Spoilers

    Uhhh I couldn’t disagree more. After the brilliance of how the first season teased and spooled out its mysteries, this second season has been embarrassingly simplistic by comparison. I still watch it, and I still enjoy it, but it’s a significant step down in complexity and storytelling, IMO.
    "A society grows great when old men plant trees, the shade of which they know they will never sit in. Good people do things for other people. That's it, the end." -- Penelope Wilton in Ricky Gervais's After Life

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