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Thread: The Vanir

  1. #1
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default The Vanir

    The idea that a faction of Asgard broke from their brothers in the Ida Galaxy is sound in theory, but their complete disregard for the lives of non-Asgard civilizations in Pegasus bugs me. I.e. making Rodney activate the Attero device without regards to the galaxies stargates blowing up, or their experiments on humans, that led to Loki being punished for, etc. are just 2 things that bugs me about the Vanir. I can understand their need and desire to solve their cloning problems, but it seems it would be easier for them to abandon their technology and focus on trying to ascend. If they could've achieved that, they could've theoretically returned to mortal form without the problems of their cloning techniques.

  2. #2
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Vanir

    They couldn't ascend. This was already confirmed in Unending.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: The Vanir

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    They couldn't ascend. This was already confirmed in Unending.
    There was one Asgard who did ascend. I haven't read it yet, but in the legacy series books there's an Asgard named Ran who was ascended

  4. #4
    Zoom jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Vanir

    The books aren't cannon.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: The Vanir

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    The books aren't cannon.
    No?

  6. #6
    Second Lieutenant StargateMillennium's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Vanir

    It's mostly up to the readers/viewers to decide whether or not it is. Here, read this.

    "Stargate literature comprises the novels and short stories in the Stargate franchise fictional universe (based on either the original Stargate film or the Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis and Stargate Universe television shows) as well as non-fiction devoted to the franchise. Stargate literary works follow no strict continuity with the series or each other, and are often considered to be non-canon. This is evident in the fact that there is a period of roughly a year between the original idea for a novel and the finalised product, causing problems for authors as they are unaware as to how the franchise will develop and change during the writing process. Despite this, the editors of Stargate literature function as the medium between the author and the production company.[1]

    There are three series of novels based on the Stargate franchise and short fiction has also been published in the official Stargate Magazine. It becomes difficult to discern what is and what is not canonical because much of the literature is based on the canon, whilst some of even this type of work deviates from the main productions, or is later contradicted. There's no official word from Metro-Goldwyn-Mayer (MGM) about the canonicity of the Stargate written fiction. MGM does, however, approve each stage of novel's production, from initial outline to final draft.[1] It remains up to the fans' discretion whether or not to accept Stargate literature as part of the combined Stargate universe."

  7. #7
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Vanir

    For all intents and purposes, we follow Show Canon as main canon. Stuff in the books is never referenced in the main series.

    Considering the nature of the SGverse you can always imagine it's a close AU. It's not like we inhabit the same universe as in the start of SG1 anymore.

  8. #8

    Default Re: The Vanir

    Yeah, and for a TV show it can't be any other way. As a TV writer, you can't assume that someone has read a dozen books outside of the TV show. What counts is what has been shown in the TV show, and preferrably something that's "episoidically near" so that the hapless viewer can remember what the hell is going on.

    From this perspective, having an Asgard-similar race that does not give a crap about anyone else, is not a stretch at all. The only stretch is whether you think "Nazis in space" are possible or not. Does every race have to aspire to become a benevolent "E.T." looking out for everybody else? Or can you rape the stars? Well clearly in the SGA premise you can have dominating and exploiting aliens, and this Asgard-similar race is somewhere on the spectrum. Hence the Loki comparison.

    Really, what's the problem? I didn't see anything problematic about the writing at all. It was totally explained and totally a valid fiction. Went to great pains in episode to explain the nuances of it all. This is called writing good sci-fi IMO.

    For the record I am not personally invested in SG-1, let alone any book fictions about SG. Continuity across some percieved overarching franchise is not important to me. Maybe this is STTOS training. "The episode is self-contained." That's a paradigm. Not the only way to develop a franchise, but certainly something that has been done in TV history.

  9. #9
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: The Vanir

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    For all intents and purposes, we follow Show Canon as main canon. Stuff in the books is never referenced in the main series.

    Considering the nature of the SGverse you can always imagine it's a close AU. It's not like we inhabit the same universe as in the start of SG1 anymore.
    Indeed, there's fish in Jack's pond now ^^

    greetings LAX
    ps: Wasn't them being unable to ascend because of the cloning? (Strange because the super-warrior made by Anubis was probably a clone, too so a biological limitation makes kind of no sense at all! I think it's the Asgard mindset that's that problem: Everything can be solved with advanced tech...hell, they lost the ability for easy ("dumb") solutions because they always think big...)

  10. #10
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    Default Re: The Vanir

    Quote Originally Posted by Laxian of Earth View Post
    Indeed, there's fish in Jack's pond now ^^

    greetings LAX
    ps: Wasn't them being unable to ascend because of the cloning? (Strange because the super-warrior made by Anubis was probably a clone, too so a biological limitation makes kind of no sense at all! I think it's the Asgard mindset that's that problem: Everything can be solved with advanced tech...hell, they lost the ability for easy ("dumb") solutions because they always think big...)
    Khalek was a clone of Anubis, but much like the machine on Atlantis that alters a person's DNA to essentially artificially ascend a person is how he become what he was. Basically Anubis used the knowledge of a 1/2 ascended person to cheat.

  11. #11
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    Default Re: The Vanir

    Another I'm curious about, and this ain't really a question either, is how did the Vanir ship get through Atlantis's shield? I can only guess it had something to do with the once great alliance they both a part of, and had some knowledge of Ancient tech?

  12. #12
    Major General garhkal's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Vanir

    Since it's been established that puddle jumpers can sail through it, perhaps at one time the ancients Let the Vannir ships do the same..

  13. #13
    Second Lieutenant
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    Default Re: The Vanir

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Since it's been established that puddle jumpers can sail through it, perhaps at one time the ancients Let the Vannir ships do the same..
    Which leads to my statement about the Ancient/Asgard alliance.

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