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    Have the wraith been defeated?

    Hi,


    I've just finished watching all 5 seasons of Atlantis.
    I know the show was eventually cancelled, I know about the movie that was supposed to be made but will now never be made.

    But in the way they ended season 5, I was wondering: are the Wraith actually considered to be defeaten now?
    Michael is out of the picture, Tod's gang has been more or les crippled, the Wraith have had a serious beating by the replicators and by fighting amongst themselves, so... what? Are they finished now?

    Or is the ending message basically: "atlantis is back on earth and the Pegasus galaxy inhabitants, oh well... They can take care of themselves from now on, we don't care anymore"?

    #2
    It sure seems like the latter is the concern.. More from the IOC than anything else.. But no the wraith are not defeated.. NOT by a long shot.

    Comment


      #3
      Considering that without Michael, the Hoffan Drug won't spread anymore, the Wraith civil war is expected to end soon as they stabilize into a healthy population.

      Furthermore, with Earth having shown the Wraith that an alternative exists to feeding that can be given to all Drones to restrict feeding needs, even the current wraith -with the therapy- can stabilize their population.

      Thirdly, the main reason the Wraith declared war was to find and feed on Earth, whereas Earth's main reason to fight is to prevent this. Should the Wraith take the Treatment and refrain from feeding on humans, there's no reason the IOA would continue the war.

      Atlantis would remain on Earth (as it also no longer is a liability) and the Pegasus Expedition would likely be reformed into a peacekeeping and observing unit. We'd likely invest heavily in alliances with the races present in Pegasus (who may not be happy with our decision to pull out, but can also do little about it), to ensure they can stand on their own two feed. With Atlantis in our possession, any reason to scour the galaxy for Ancient Tech is virtually pointless.

      Ergo, the Wraith will likely remain in Pegasus as a primary force. Note that Earth has little to bargain for, as with the Therapy the Wraith aren't population-limited anymore and could easily strike in full force. Given that they're massive weakened however by civil war, their main goal would be to rebuild and restore their empire, and by the time they do that, they may no longer have such an appetite for destruction.

      The only way to make sure there's never any war anymore would be Xenocide, but i'm not sure that'll be a popular decision with ANY of our allies save our Pegasus ones, and it would cause irreversible damage in our relations in the Milky Way. It simply wouldn't be worth it.

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by DrMckay View Post
        Hi,


        I've just finished watching all 5 seasons of Atlantis.
        I know the show was eventually cancelled, I know about the movie that was supposed to be made but will now never be made.

        But in the way they ended season 5, I was wondering: are the Wraith actually considered to be defeaten now?
        Michael is out of the picture, Tod's gang has been more or les crippled, the Wraith have had a serious beating by the replicators and by fighting amongst themselves, so... what? Are they finished now?

        Or is the ending message basically: "atlantis is back on earth and the Pegasus galaxy inhabitants, oh well... They can take care of themselves from now on, we don't care anymore"?
        No they haven't. But the message was more "Our show has been cancelled, so we can't help them right now."
        "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

        *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

        "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

        "Elizabeth..."

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
          No they haven't. But the message was more "Our show has been cancelled, so we can't help them right now."
          Yeah, and thanks to MGM, we'll now never know how this story will turn out... *sigh*

          Comment


            #6
            We can only imagine how Atlantis ended. S5 is a proof that postponing conclusion of certain character arcs and other story arcs for a "maybe a movie and a season 6" was a bad idea and a bad business decision.

            I mean, what actually happened with Wier? Is she dead or alive? If we ignore that TH chose not to reprise her role in "Ghosts in the Machine" and that her character is played by another actress, can we accept that Sheppard and the guys actually chose to kill their own friend? What happened with Todd after "Enemy at the Gate"? What is the end-result of the Wraith drug treatment? What became of the Genii? What happened to the remaining Athosians? Is Pegasus better off with Atlantis or without it? And what about the still unexplored parts of the city?

            The show's cancellation prevented the writers/producers to answer all of those questions on-screen and we will (probably) never know what they had planned. Yeah, we have Malozzi's movie and a S6 idea. But what would actually become of the movie and the 6th season might have also been something completely different than what he or anyone of us imagined. Seasons 4 & 5 did feature amazing storylines, but they were badly executed. SGA just wasn't the same show it had been for the first 3 years of its run.

            But what if the producers got the chance to finish Atlantis off with two-wrap-up movies just like they've done with SG-1? We would probably get a movie that'd be toned-down version of S6 to wrap the Wraith storyline and one where Fran (or some other Replicator) somehow messes up things for the expedition. They even talked about the first Atlantis movie being a time-travel story. MGM show trough that and shut their plans down.

            With that being said, I think we are better off NOT knowing the intended ending of the show by the producers. Just using our imagination to imagine our own endings can be satisfying enough. For example, I have my own version of the show in mind - with some things that Wright, Cooper and Malozzi would never even think of writing into their show.

            P.S.: And yes, I like to think that Wraith have been defeated and that piece has returned to the Pegasus Galaxy at least in some form.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
              We can only imagine how Atlantis ended. S5 is a proof that postponing conclusion of certain character arcs and other story arcs for a "maybe a movie and a season 6" was a bad idea and a bad business decision.
              Well it was a time in which MGM was going bankrupt and the profitable DVD market was falling like a brick. Considering MGM still exists, can you truly say it was a bad business decision?

              Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
              I mean, what actually happened with Wier? Is she dead or alive
              She's dead.
              Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
              can we accept that Sheppard and the guys actually chose to kill their own friend?
              Why not, when they basically had no other choice? The replicators were never easily defeated.

              Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
              What happened with Todd after "Enemy at the Gate"? What is the end-result of the Wraith drug treatment? What became of the Genii? What happened to the remaining Athosians? Is Pegasus better off with Atlantis or without it? And what about the still unexplored parts of the city?
              Well my guess is that they wanted to explore this in Season 6. Still, stuff like "is pegasus better off" and "what about the rest of the city" are questions that existed since Season 1.

              Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
              SGA just wasn't the same show it had been for the first 3 years of its run.
              True, and it is unlikely that a season 6 would've changed that. In retrospect, it's fine that it was cancelled. Especially the Atlantis movie sounded like something i'd rather not have as canon.

              Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
              But what if the producers got the chance to finish Atlantis off with two-wrap-up movies just like they've done with SG-1?
              These movies profited mostly from DVD sales, which were falling like a brick. Which is the main reason all SG movies got cancelled.

              Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
              With that being said, I think we are better off NOT knowing the intended ending of the show by the producers. Just using our imagination to imagine our own endings can be satisfying enough.
              Having seen a few more shows i love since SG, i can tell you it's better for a show to be short and sweet. It's never good to see a shambling carcass of what you once loved. WIth that in mind, i'm happy with Stargate as it is.

              Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
              P.S.: And yes, I like to think that Wraith have been defeated and that piece has returned to the Pegasus Galaxy at least in some form.
              I think a truce or ceasefire is more likely. I don't think genocide or xenocide will be easy to justfiy to the IOA and our MW allies would quickly get Goa'uld flashbacks.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
                We can only imagine how Atlantis ended. S5 is a proof that postponing conclusion of certain character arcs and other story arcs for a "maybe a movie and a season 6" was a bad idea and a bad business decision.
                Well it was a time in which MGM was going bankrupt and the profitable DVD market was falling like a brick. Considering MGM still exists, can you truly say it was a bad business decision?

                Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
                I mean, what actually happened with Wier? Is she dead or alive
                She's dead.
                Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
                can we accept that Sheppard and the guys actually chose to kill their own friend?
                Why not, when they basically had no other choice? The replicators were never easily defeated.

                Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
                What happened with Todd after "Enemy at the Gate"? What is the end-result of the Wraith drug treatment? What became of the Genii? What happened to the remaining Athosians? Is Pegasus better off with Atlantis or without it? And what about the still unexplored parts of the city?
                Well my guess is that they wanted to explore this in Season 6. Still, stuff like "is pegasus better off" and "what about the rest of the city" are questions that existed since Season 1.

                Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
                SGA just wasn't the same show it had been for the first 3 years of its run.
                True, and it is unlikely that a season 6 would've changed that. In retrospect, it's fine that it was cancelled. Especially the Atlantis movie sounded like something i'd rather not have as canon.

                Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
                But what if the producers got the chance to finish Atlantis off with two-wrap-up movies just like they've done with SG-1?
                These movies profited mostly from DVD sales, which were falling like a brick. Which is the main reason all SG movies got cancelled.

                Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
                With that being said, I think we are better off NOT knowing the intended ending of the show by the producers. Just using our imagination to imagine our own endings can be satisfying enough.
                Having seen a few more shows i love since SG, i can tell you it's better for a show to be short and sweet. It's never good to see a shambling carcass of what you once loved. WIth that in mind, i'm happy with Stargate as it is.

                Originally posted by Mnikolic View Post
                P.S.: And yes, I like to think that Wraith have been defeated and that piece has returned to the Pegasus Galaxy at least in some form.
                I think a truce or ceasefire is more likely. I don't think genocide or xenocide will be easy to justfiy to the IOA and our MW allies would quickly get Goa'uld flashbacks.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Do the books count as being cannon to the series? or not?
                  Lose it. It means go crazy. Nuts. Insane. Bonzo. No longer in possession of one's faculties. Three fries short of a happy meal...WACKO!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Not
                    Originally posted by aretood2
                    Jelgate is right

                    Comment


                      #11
                      There was a time when I was very disappointed we didn't get to finish the story. But the more I hear about the movie, and what was planned the more I feel like we dodged a bullet. Now most of what happened next is left to our imagination.

                      Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                      She's dead.
                      She's not dead. She's deactivated and floating in space. Replicators can still be reactivated if retrieved.

                      Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                      Why not, when they basically had no other choice? The replicators were never easily defeated.
                      I don't buy that. They had lots of other choices. Chiefly, even if they decided they couldn't ever trust this group of Replicators. Why would Replicator Weir also have to "die" with the rest of them?

                      Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                      I think a truce or ceasefire is more likely. I don't think genocide or xenocide will be easy to justfiy to the IOA and our MW allies would quickly get Goa'uld flashbacks.
                      The problem with that is that the wraith are always going to be massacring entire planets full of people. There can't ever be a real truce. The wraith can't stop or they will starve to death. And the humans can't ever tolerate that status quo. It's why the dilemma of fighting the wraith was so fascinating and tragically intractable.
                      "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

                      *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

                      "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

                      "Elizabeth..."

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
                        The problem with that is the wraith are always going to be massacring entire planets full of people. There can't ever be a real truce. The wraith can't stop or they will starve to death. And the humans can't ever tolerate that status quo. It's why the dilemma of fighting the wraith was so fascinating and tragically intractable.
                        I agree. UNLESS we can finish the treatment where we remove their need to feed off humans only.. OR can come up with a way to allow them to feed from clones.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
                          She's not dead. She's deactivated and floating in space. Replicators can still be reactivated if retrieved.
                          And people are dead until they're cloned. Gotta draw the line somewere.

                          Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
                          I don't buy that. They had lots of other choices. Chiefly, even if they decided they couldn't ever trust this group of Replicators. Why would Replicator Weir also have to "die" with the rest of them?
                          Because they had no way of checking whether the gate wasn't a trap and the only way the others would trust the trap was if Weir went first and sent them the signal it was safe.


                          Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
                          The problem with that is that the wraith are always going to be massacring entire planets full of people. There can't ever be a real truce. The wraith can't stop or they will starve to death. And the humans can't ever tolerate that status quo. It's why the dilemma of fighting the wraith was so fascinating and tragically intractable.
                          Considering the Wraith's situation i see no other way for them than to take the treatment. No race would be stupid or prideful enough to consider extinction over change. Not even the ancients did it, since they had secured their race in humanity.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                            And people are dead until they're cloned. Gotta draw the line somewere.
                            What? That's a terrible analogy. It's more like stasis. It's more accurate to say people are unconscious until they are awakened, in this situation.

                            Originally posted by thekillman View Post

                            Because they had no way of checking whether the gate wasn't a trap and the only way the others would trust the trap was if Weir went first and sent them the signal it was safe.
                            So why didn't the team go and pick her up afterward?

                            Originally posted by thekillman View Post
                            Considering the Wraith's situation i see no other way for them than to take the treatment. No race would be stupid or prideful enough to consider extinction over change. Not even the ancients did it, since they had secured their race in humanity.
                            Wraith aren't going to all be lining up to fundamentally alter their basic nature, especially for the benefit of their food. Most of them are still going to want to just fight it out for dominance. Plus, as was also brought up in the show, the wraith no longer feeding on humans doesn't mean that they aren't going to still dominate the galaxy.
                            Last edited by Infinite-Possibilities; 21 August 2016, 03:04 PM.
                            "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

                            *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

                            "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

                            "Elizabeth..."

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
                              Wraith aren't going to all be lining up to fundamentally alter their basic nature, especially for the benefit of their food.
                              Except that in the current situation, it's not for their food. it's for their own essential survival. Look how far humans are willing to go. Why wouldn't the wraith take the treatment. They build entire organic ships, it's not like the humans are more knowledgeable on biotech like this. The wraith can invent their own treatment and administer it.


                              Originally posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
                              Most of them are still going to want to just fight it out for dominance. Plus, as was also brought up in the show, the wraith no longer feeding on humans doesn't mean that they aren't going to still dominate the galaxy.
                              I do not believe that the total extinction of the Wraith can be justified that way. It also doesn't exactly make us better than them, or better than the Goa'uld for that matter. I can not see any situation where any of our Milky way allies would like this "solution".

                              I thought the Tok'ra already taught us an important lesson regarding the fate of entire races.

                              Comment

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