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  1. #41
    Captain Jeffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    btw why would they need so much firepower to defeat the walkers? chances are the 3 dragons will be all it takes (dragonfire can kill walkers)
    I was thinking this too until I saw how the walkers were created. They were created using dragon glass which is why it an kill them. I don't think any fire is going to be useful against the walkers as we have seen them walk through fire on 2 occasions.
    Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together

  2. #42
    Lieutenant Colonel SoulReaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffer View Post
    I was thinking this too until I saw how the walkers were created. They were created using dragon glass which is why it an kill them. I don't think any fire is going to be useful against the walkers as we have seen them walk through fire on 2 occasions.
    cept valyrian steel can also kill them & that steel's made using dragonfire, can't be a coincidence
    this means dragonfire ain't normal fire

  3. #43
    Lieutenant Colonel Gen. Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    It's...complicated. And there are ancient rumors of beasts that may be able to counter the dragons that live in the far north. If they are real I imagine that the Walkers might have control over them.

  4. #44
    Captain Jeffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Quote Originally Posted by SoulReaver View Post
    cept valyrian steel can also kill them & that steel's made using dragonfire, can't be a coincidence
    this means dragonfire ain't normal fire
    Maybe they weren't made with dragon fire but dragon glass maybe that was added to the steel and gives it the never dull edge and such. It could be, that over the years through word of mouth it changes to dragon fire.
    Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together

  5. #45
    Lieutenant Colonel SoulReaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffer View Post
    Maybe they weren't made with dragon fire but dragon glass maybe that was added to the steel and gives it the never dull edge and such. It could be, that over the years through word of mouth it changes to dragon fire.
    nope it's specifically stated dragonfire is required ingredient (in show cannon at least, dunno about the books)
    which btw also means that even if the formula were recovered it'd be useless except to Dany

    besides glass added to metal wouldn't be ideal for flexibility
    who knows what dragonglass really is anyway for all we know it's ordinary rock that's been altered long ago by dragonfire

  6. #46
    Lieutenant Colonel SoulReaver's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen. Chris View Post
    It's...complicated. And there are ancient rumors of beasts that may be able to counter the dragons that live in the far north. If they are real I imagine that the Walkers might have control over them.
    ice-breathing dragons maybe? that'd be awesome

  7. #47
    You call that a glowstick?
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Well, I believe that dragon glass is Obsidion...volcanic glass. Not sure if that's just what it looks like or if that's mentioned in the books.

    Which would be a good explanation why there's so very little of it. Even in our modern times Obsidion isn't easy to get.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    WOW! I can't believe not one person picked up on what I said. Why does everyone believe Jon has to be Rhaegar's son when there is actually some stronger evidence that he might be Robert's son? (Black Hair, Knack for Fighting, Burned in Season One, and don't forget father who had bastards by many women.) In the end I think they will go with Rhaegar, but I think the big twist could be that he is Robert's son - still a bastard that Ned would keep secret to protect the name of his greatly beloved sister. I mean Rhaegar is kind of so obvious why go through the steps of having her whisper.

    Another possible father could be The Mad King. My mother texted me and told me she thinks Jon could be Aerys "The Mad King" Targaryen's bastard born from the rape of Lyanna, which seems possible though I personally doubt it.

    I haven't read the books, but I know the show hasn't really been clear as to when Ned's attempted rescue of Lyanna takes place, before or after the death of Rhaegar and The Mad King. I think they implied that it might have been after the fall of the Targaryen's, including Rhaegar's wife and children, but I can't be certain it wasn't just some time during the rebellion. They also haven't been too specific as to how long she was, supposedly, a prisoner. So could she not have been raped by The Mad King at some point? Isn't it possible she feared The Mad King would kill the baby, if indeed the rescue attempt happened prior to the fall of the Targaryens? Could she not have been with Robert at some point prior to her alleged captivity? Could she not have feared what might have happened to her bastard son regardless of who the father was due to the political climate? Is it not possible that even if baby Jon was Robert's bastard she feared Tywin Lannister would have him killed on the basis that he seemed to be Rhaegar's bastard due to the circumstances of her alleged captivity?

    I am just really surprised everyone is so certain that it has already been decided Rhaegar is the father. I've always wondered whether it would be Rhaegar or Robert. After the episode I still questioned it and a friend of mine is convinced Robert is the father, so it is so surprising that it seems everywhere I look everyone says the truth that Rhaegar is Jon's father has already been revealed. I do think they'll likely stick to Rhaegar being his father; it just seems weird that people aren't asking the same things my friend, my mom, and I are asking about a show that is known for throwing curveballs at the audience.
    Last edited by Looney; July 5th, 2016 at 11:15 AM.

  9. #49
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Jon is supposed to have typical Stark looks ( Sean Bean's Ned doesn't look like the Ned described in the book); dark hair, grey eyes (it even bothered Catelyn that her sons didn't look like Starks while Jon did). I could see Jon being Aerys' son by rape, but Lyanna told Ned to protect the baby in the scene on the show (and it didn't sound like she was trying to protect her name), the Tower of Joy takes place after the Targaryans are basically defeated and there were 3 Kinguards guarding it. I don't see why Lyanna would need her baby protected from Robert or why Aerys or Rhaegar would send 3 Kingsgaurd to protect Lyanna and the baby if they thought it was Robert's bastard son. To me it makes more sense to want to protect and hide the baby from Robert if he's a Targaryan.

  10. #50
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Agreed Rhaegar took care to protect laynna. I look at Rhaegar and Lyanna as the Romeo and Juillet of GoT. We have never heard anything bad about Rhaegar other than he kidnapped Lyanna. It's likely that she and Rhaegar ran away together. Also HBO changed their Jon Snow Web page to say that Rhaegar is Jon's father
    Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together

  11. #51
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Yeah, I lean towards Lyanna and Rhaegar running away together as well. It's Robert that said that Rhaegar kidnapped Lyanna; a guy like Robert would probably never want to admit to himself or anyone that his fiancee would ever think of running off with another man. Rhaegar was thought of as a good guy before the "kidnapping". I mean, running away with another woman when you're already married isn't a good thing, but it's no where near as bad as kidnapping and rape (which is still a possibility though).

  12. #52
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Like I said, I thought they would make Rhaegar the father. So here is more speculation even if it isn't true.

    - Jon's typical Stark looks go closer to typical Baratheon looks.

    - Lyanna would need the child protected from Robert if it was believed Rhaegar was the father, even if Robert really was. Robert wouldn't have known she was pregnant. That fact would be more true if the Targaryens had already been defeated and Tywin Lannister had killed off Rhaegar's other offspring. She might have feared the same would happen to Jon if it was assumed Jon was Rhaegar's offspring after her "abduction." Remember, she knew she was dying and was likely not going to be around to debate who Jon's father was. She knew battles were being fought in part because of where she was and who she was with.

    - Rhaegar would protect Robert's bastard if he loved Lyanna. For all we know Robert could have forced himself on her, though that would require the assumption that she never told Ned that fact.

    - Rhaegar would send King's Guard to protect her if he felt his father was a threat to her. Maybe those King's Guard were loyal to him and not The Mad King. (So with this scenario I have a question. When was she "kidnapped"? I've always assumed, or maybe it was laid out this way and I've forgotten when it was mentioned, that Lyanna, her father, and brother went to King's Landing. When they were killed by The Mad King she was taken. If this is true then it would lend itself to a scenario where The Mad King could have done something and Rhaegar took her and hid her away from that situation.)

    Anyway, it is all just speculation based on the fact that everyone was immediately saying Rhaegar was Jon's father when myself and others I know had questions about other clues. But if HBO posted it then that is that.

  13. #53
    Captain Jeffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    I believe that Rhaegar "kidnapped" her first then Ned's brother went to kings landing to get her back at that point Ned's brother was killed by the mad king and the rebellion started.
    Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together

  14. #54
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Yeah, sometime after the tourney at Harrenhal, where Lyanna and Rhaegar met, Lyanna is "kidnapped", then Brandon Stark went to Kings Landing looking for Rhaegar, who wasn't there, and was so was arrested by Aerys. His father then came and both were killed. Aerys then wanted to kill Robert and Ned, but Jon Arryn said no and the rebelion started.

    I think it's clearer in the books, that it's Rhaegar and that Robert is not Jon's father. I think the show confuses things because of the way the actors look. Jon isn't supposed to look like Robert, he and Arya are supposed to look like Ned, who has typical Stark looks. Arya even asked Ned if she was a bastard because she looked more like Jon than her other siblings and Ned tells her that she looks like her Aunt Lyanna.

    Robert would know if they slept together and if Lyanna told Ned to tell Robert that the baby was his (Robert's), I think he'd believe her, since he was pretty obsessed with her.

  15. #55
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    I thought it was rather silly that they masked Lyanna's voice just as she's saying Jon's true name, but then the more I thought about it I realized that they must have been afraid of confusing viewers if baby Jon had one name and then immediately transitioned to adult Jon. I imagine that his true Targaryen name will be revealed once Bran and Meera return to Winterfell.

  16. #56
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Thanks for all the updates. I was never clear on when or how she was supposedly abducted and why Ned's father and brother went to King's Landing.

  17. #57
    Lieutenant Colonel Gen. Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Winds of Winter (610)

    Quote Originally Posted by Looney View Post
    Thanks for all the updates. I was never clear on when or how she was supposedly abducted and why Ned's father and brother went to King's Landing.
    That's cause those scenes, at least with the death of Ned's family members, were cut from the first season (as a flashback). They were filmed, though, so I have no idea why they cut them.

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