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  1. #1
    Alyssa Ogawa neela's Avatar
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    Arrow2 Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    I'm toying with an idea in relation to a SGA story I'm writing. Would you consider it possible for Atlantis to develop powered exoskeletons and/or armoured suits a few years post-season 5? (We know they've encountered aliens with those types of suits, such as the Vanir, so they certainly have places where they may find inspiration.)

    The way I see it, a powered exoskeleton in itself is possible, since the technology has existed on Earth since the 1960s. The powering system should also not be a problem, since in-franchise they have naquadah and can find inspiration to design smaller power packs from both the Area 51-built generators and the Jaffa/Goa'uld technology. Those power packs would additionally last longer than the technology we have on Earth today, though I'm open to suggestions as to how long they might actually last before needing to be replaced.

    So, for those tech-savy people out there, here are some of my technical questions (creative license is allowed):

    1) What kind of lightweight material would be best to use in the exoskeleton? Do we have any in-franchise that would work better than real life materials?

    2) Would it be best to use electronic servomotors or pneumatics for the joint actuators?

    3) Would Atlantis be capable of designing an external armour that could withstand projectile/energy weapons? If yes, what would they need to do that?

    4) Is it more plausible to build a rigid exoskeleton and have the wearer use a heavy-armoued suit beneath, or to build a hard shell suit over an exoskeleton with overlapping armour plates that follows the wearer's motions (like the medieval knights wore, or Stormtroopers - take your pick)?

    As always, thanks in advance!
    "If I should die, think only this of me: / That there's some corner of a foreign field / That is forever [Earth]."
    Earth is gone, but Atlantis must survive... Apoca!fic. Post-Season 5. John/Sam.

  2. #2
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Quote Originally Posted by neela View Post
    So, for those tech-savy people out there, here are some of my technical questions (creative license is allowed):

    1) What kind of lightweight material would be best to use in the exoskeleton? Do we have any in-franchise that would work better than real life materials?

    2) Would it be best to use electronic servomotors or pneumatics for the joint actuators?

    3) Would Atlantis be capable of designing an external armour that could withstand projectile/energy weapons? If yes, what would they need to do that?

    4) Is it more plausible to build a rigid exoskeleton and have the wearer use a heavy-armoued suit beneath, or to build a hard shell suit over an exoskeleton with overlapping armour plates that follows the wearer's motions (like the medieval knights wore, or Stormtroopers - take your pick)?

    As always, thanks in advance!
    As a mechanical engineer, i can answer these:

    1: It would probably be made of various hybrid materials. Strong, lightweight materials are either the ultralight alloys (aluminium, titanium, magnesium), or hybrids like carbon-fiber-reinforced-polymers. In-universe, Trinium would make these skeletons far stronger and lighter, but since it's mined offworld i would consider it a Strategic Resource that shouldn't be wasted on exoskeletons, it would primarily be used for starships. An exoskeleton in the purest sense would not really offer protection. What the Pegasus Asgard used was Powered Armor, not an exoskeleton.

    2: Electronic all the way. Getting a sufficiently small, light yet lasting powersource is difficult on earth, but the powerpacks for the Altairan bodies would've been enough to power an exoskeleton for quite a while. With the power problem solved in Stargate, i would chose electronic actuators to prevent carrying unnecessary equipment like airtubes, compressors etc.

    3: Blanket protection against energy weapons is a somewhat strange requirement. The punch of the various energy weapons varies, and different weapons would almost certainly require different approaches.

    E.g. Zats have shown to destroy consoles that should be protected against electric surges, so it's doubtful armor could be made that resists zat shots and yet is still mobile. Joints can't really be protected while those would be the major aim points for Zats. In that case, it would be better to sacrifice armor for a shield generator.

    Wraith stunners however could be made ineffective since they show no effect on electronic devices. Staff weapons have varying mileage, but would probably require significant armoring to be rendered ineffective.

    4: Both i think are equally difficult. Armor over skeleton would limit movement, skeleton over armor makes the most crucial part of your suit vulnerable to damage. I would judge however that engineering suits would have skeleton-over-armor and military would almost certainly use armor-over-skeleton. Engineering suits would be great to have to deal with in-space maintenance of spacecraft, maintenance of space stations or science missions on difficult planets (e.g. high gravity).

    Whenever you're in a situation where the skeleton would be damaged in a skeleton-over-armor configuration (enemy fire, extreme temperatures, corrosive atmospheres) the other way would be preferred (armor over skeleton)

    As to atlantis making them, it would require some additional equipment but it's probably not the most out-there technology.

  3. #3
    Alyssa Ogawa neela's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Thanks a lot, thekillman. Your knowledge and insight's been really helpful once again, and I've certainly got enough here to help me explain things in the story in an easy to understand manner. For the moment, I'm leaning towards a type of armour-over-skeleton type of suit (with the end result as something close to Iron Man).

    The reason in my story for the skeleton being developed first and armour plates later was that resources were scarce or needed to be prioritised elsewhere. (It's a post-apocalyptic setting where Atlantis is cut off from Earth and Milky Way and has a limited population and resources as their basis for survival. So, my logic's that if you have fewer soldiers, you have to make them 'last', or be more effective units, hence the suits to improve survivability. It's a long-term project, though, so not something they whip up 'overnight' or in just a few months.)

    Anyway, thanks a lot!
    "If I should die, think only this of me: / That there's some corner of a foreign field / That is forever [Earth]."
    Earth is gone, but Atlantis must survive... Apoca!fic. Post-Season 5. John/Sam.

  4. #4
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Quote Originally Posted by neela View Post
    I'm toying with an idea in relation to a SGA story I'm writing. Would you consider it possible for Atlantis to develop powered exoskeletons and/or armoured suits a few years post-season 5? (We know they've encountered aliens with those types of suits, such as the Vanir, so they certainly have places where they may find inspiration.)

    The way I see it, a powered exoskeleton in itself is possible, since the technology has existed on Earth since the 1960s. The powering system should also not be a problem, since in-franchise they have naquadah and can find inspiration to design smaller power packs from both the Area 51-built generators and the Jaffa/Goa'uld technology. Those power packs would additionally last longer than the technology we have on Earth today, though I'm open to suggestions as to how long they might actually last before needing to be replaced.

    So, for those tech-savy people out there, here are some of my technical questions (creative license is allowed):

    1) What kind of lightweight material would be best to use in the exoskeleton? Do we have any in-franchise that would work better than real life materials?

    2) Would it be best to use electronic servomotors or pneumatics for the joint actuators?

    3) Would Atlantis be capable of designing an external armour that could withstand projectile/energy weapons? If yes, what would they need to do that?

    4) Is it more plausible to build a rigid exoskeleton and have the wearer use a heavy-armoued suit beneath, or to build a hard shell suit over an exoskeleton with overlapping armour plates that follows the wearer's motions (like the medieval knights wore, or Stormtroopers - take your pick)?

    As always, thanks in advance!
    Have we forgotten about the armor Anubis's Kull warriors wore???? It was impervious to practically everything except a missile fired at it, and even that didn't stop it as evidenced in Death Knell.

  5. #5
    Major General
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    But did we ever learn how anubis MADE those suits of armor?

  6. #6
    Lieutenant Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    nope, nor how much of it was due to the kull themselves.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  7. #7
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    nope, nor how much of it was due to the kull themselves.
    I'm pretty sure that the kull warriors would've been as vulnerable to being hit as anybody else without those suits. Given the fact that Daniel put on the suit he removed from Vala in Prometheus Unbound and a zat blast didn't even phase when he faced off against those bounty hunters, or whatever they were.

  8. #8
    Lieutenant Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    I'm pretty sure that the kull warriors would've been as vulnerable to being hit as anybody else without those suits. Given the fact that Daniel put on the suit he removed from Vala in Prometheus Unbound and a zat blast didn't even phase when he faced off against those bounty hunters, or whatever they were.
    As vunerable as what?
    A human?, A Jaffa? a Wraith?, an Una's?

    The Kull warriors, and their armour is something not really explained in SG-1 (unfortunately). We know it is "ded 'ard" but not much more. Is it something that Anubis could do as a goa'uld, or was it something from his half Ascended heritage?
    Like most things in SG, it was a convenient plot device, little more.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  9. #9
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    As vunerable as what?
    A human?, A Jaffa? a Wraith?, an Una's?

    The Kull warriors, and their armour is something not really explained in SG-1 (unfortunately). We know it is "ded 'ard" but not much more. Is it something that Anubis could do as a goa'uld, or was it something from his half Ascended heritage?
    Like most things in SG, it was a convenient plot device, little more.
    It was explained, sort of. They were some kind of genetically engineered creatures brought to life by something like the device Daniel and Dr. Lee found in Central America.

  10. #10
    Lieutenant Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    It was explained, sort of. They were some kind of genetically engineered creatures brought to life by something like the device Daniel and Dr. Lee found in Central America.
    Exactly, re-animated pre dead tissue. Would standard weaponry work on them? Short of blowing them up, nothing really seemed to work. Throw on some armour geared specifically to stop total structure failure...........

    Think of it like biker leathers, all they have to do is keep the body togeather and it's ok, because unlike a human body, the Kull just keeps going.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
    The truth isn't the truth

  11. #11
    First Lieutenant
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Exactly, re-animated pre dead tissue. Would standard weaponry work on them? Short of blowing them up, nothing really seemed to work. Throw on some armour geared specifically to stop total structure failure...........

    Think of it like biker leathers, all they have to do is keep the body togeather and it's ok, because unlike a human body, the Kull just keeps going.
    Have you forgotten that when Daniel wore the suit a zat blast didn't affect him at all?

  12. #12
    Lieutenant Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bhousden View Post
    Have you forgotten that when Daniel wore the suit a zat blast didn't affect him at all?
    not at all, a paralytic strike would be exactly the kind of thing such armour would stop.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
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  13. #13
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Damned, I hate to be a thread-necromancer, but I just can't resist:

    I don't think the Kull couldn't be killed without the armor! They may have started out dead, but they are alive just like anybody else (just like someone re-animated/healed by a sarcophagus/telchack's device!), hell they need the "dumb/burnout" symbiote (which can't do it for long either before dying!) to stay alive, otherwise those bodies would die within minutes after having been created!

    As for the armor itself? Sure it wasn't actually a powered armor (it didn't seem to make the people who wore it stronger, but then again:

    Just take the energy dissipation technology (and the material which seems impervious to bullets and kinetic strikes, too) and integrate it into a new armor

    Take additional inspiration from the Vanir (who came up with that name BTW? I always called them pegassus-asgard) suits (those shields they can produce to protect themselves are nice, especially if you are escorting refugees and can shield them from enemy-fire!) and maybe even from PC-Games, movies etc. (it's not like Star Trek (the communicator!) didn't inspire real world technologies and that's just one such example!)

    Integrated a cloaking device, rapid-fire-energy-weapons (those from the Kull will work) and a hand-device and you have a near unstoppable armor

    As for Trinium being a strategic resource: They wouldn't trade Trinium with others (like the Tollan) if it they didn't have that much of it!

    greetings LAX

  14. #14
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Quote Originally Posted by Laxian of Earth View Post
    As for Trinium being a strategic resource: They wouldn't trade Trinium with others (like the Tollan) if it they didn't have that much of it!
    I would agree that their trinium supply is probably quite healthy. Another example that suggests this: they mainly use it in ship construction, but ship construction appears to be most restricted by their ability to funnel the necessary real world money into the production of a single ship. In season 9, Episode 3, the Senate Appropriations Committee wanted to cut funding to the SGC so they could devote more resources to ship construction...

    FISHER
    The Stargate Program has succeeded in acquiring alien technology. So now it's time to devote our resources to exploiting those technologies for planetary defense, namely by building more Daedalus-class ships. Now we have no intention of shutting you down completely. You will continue to operate at thirty percent of your current budget. I think you will find that that is more then enough money once you de-emphasize new exploration.
    They rushed the Korolev into service, but by reallocating money they were able to overlap the construction of two ships for the first time and they obviously had enough trinium and naquadah on hand for this. They later got on a one ship per year schedule and never explained why, but I would assume some of the money got reallocated elsewhere since Fisher was not proposing a temporary cut of the SGC's budget to temporarily benefit their ship building efforts.
    Last edited by Xaeden; January 7th, 2018 at 05:09 PM.

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Indeed, the problem with building ships was hiding the money (so that people couldn't easily follow the trail and discover where the money was going to), not the actual shipments of materials (a lot of that got here from offworld after all)

    The other problem might have been contracting out the components (I don't think the US Armed Forces have enough manufacturing capability to actually build much in the way of weapons themselves, otherwise they wouldn't buy stuff from Boeing and other companies in the military industrial complex!) without people being able to realize what they were building!

    greetings LAX

  16. #16
    Captain WraithRichard's Avatar
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    Default Re: Powered exoskeletons - a future possibility in Pegasus?

    Quote Originally Posted by neela View Post
    4) Is it more plausible to build a rigid exoskeleton and have the wearer use a heavy-armoued suit beneath, or to build a hard shell suit over an exoskeleton with overlapping armour plates that follows the wearer's motions (like the medieval knights wore, or Stormtroopers - take your pick)?

    As always, thanks in advance!
    This was going to part of the beginning of season 6, according to Malozzi's weblog. Go for it.
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