Prepare for Starburst: A Farscape Rewatch Thread

[jelgate]

I watched both episodes today but you're only getting the first today, and the second tomorrow.

.
Spoilsport

Exodus From Genesis

Even if it looks gross I wouldn't mind a bug in my mouth cleaning my teeth -- and minty is fine. I like minty.

I think you could make an argument that's its weird to us because its foreign. Even the most open-minded people can get gross out on things that are different than us. Look how most people reacts on the Asian communities that eat cats and dogs.

Bugs on a spaceship, and then to create friction we bring in the enemy as an added bonus. I'd totally forgotten about the heat bothering the PK's.

If it was only this episode I would probably forget too. I remember because its a major part of Scorpious.

I loved all the little character moments. Rygel, again, saving the day.
D'Argo and Crighton, Aeryn and Crighton, Zhaan and Crighton (time and space).

Its time and patience. I love the part at the end where Bug Zhaan is clearly smitten with Rygel. Its just hilarious because the real Zhaan would never see him that way.

Rygel and his painting.

I like the impact it plays on Rygel getting over his cowardice.

Also, notice how Anthony Simcoe is not always wearing his green contacts. One episode he is, the next he's not.

I did not but I don't normally pay attention to those things

Something that also rarely happens in the show is the use of the computer animated Rygel which they use when he walks into the nest. It's a bad character CG though - the detail of Rygel's appearance is entirely lost in the animated version. It's a cheap copy.

[/QUOTE]
What got me was how terrible his walking was. I wonder if the bad CGI was why they rarely used it. This is 1999. CGI was fairly new

Exodus From Genesis
Well I really don't have much more to say WOW I didn't notice the green contacts as FH had mentioned. Nor did I notice the lack of detail from the CG Rygel so kudos to FH to have the eagle eye.

I'm 1 for 2 on FH's observations. I'm not surprised to be honest. This is the person who watched Atlantis 6 times in a row to measure screen time.

And Jel I loved your take on the bits about John and how the crew came to appreciate John as the whole episode was about respecting even the Lesser Life forms. That yes even lowly humans have worth.

I think its a gradual process to be honest. Some like Zhaan open up to John at first but others take the whole season to truly appreciate him. I think the episode is more about not believing everything you see. We all saw the bugs as enemies but they had no hostile intention. The bugs were just responding to that basic need all lifeforms feel.

And also as jel pointed out again what makes Farscape great are the creative solutions. They found a way to "defeat" the intruders in a most symbiotic way. This has always been why I love this show. Because anyone can shoot their way through a solution (You gotta love D'argo and his constant stance for battle readiness ) But I find it so refreshing that with this show and especially Crichton along with Peace loving Zhaan that they usually always manage to find a solution with the least amount of resistance necessary. While this could get annoying if they never used violence, I just love how they find creative ways to escape their situations with as little fight and blood shed as possible.

I loved D'Argo's line about cutting off the finger so we know who is real and who is an imposter. The characters use violence plenty of times. They however have to pick their battles as its not like they have the best weapons

I want to give my few beefs about the episode though:

Zhaan the Hyper Artist: I do love that Zhaan has this ability to perform tasks at break neck speeds, what I have issue with from one artist to another is that while she is completing the painting for Rygel she is shown only painting on the canvas, there was no "animation or actions" showing her going back to her palette of paints getting more paint. That was really a glaring omission to me. How could you possible paint a picture without dipping your brush into more paint and or mixing colors, etc. So BAH the authenticity of that bugged me.

Maybe she was too fast for you to see. Honestly that is such a small aspect of the episode I didn't care

The other thing that sort of "bugged" me literally is the size of these creatures and how once the Genesis was complete how did all these larger bugs and clones and that what appeared to be a very huge mother like species in the nest room get off the ship? I mean they showed the swarm leaving the ship and that's fine but how did they clear out all the big bug elements from the ship? That would've been a massive undertaking. They did show the DRD cleaning up the blue goo, but there was a lot of that stuff. So that left some doubt in my mind at the end.

Look how small the bugs where at the beginning of the episode and then they appear bigger as the episode goes on. If we can accept the infestation then the removal is not that hard to believe. I admit it is hard to believe the bugs got on the ship though if you want to be really critical

Finally the one last bit of science that didn't quite sit with me was how did the cloning occur right down to a perfect replica of the clothing? How was there any DNA for clothing? I didn't really dwell on this bit as many shows have presented cloning in this way. So meh.....I just rolled with it, cuz let's face it. At the end of the day how was it gonna work out to have the cloned crew walking around naked.

If bug John can add that orange mark to his DNA then it is not hard to believe the bugs can add layers on top of their skin. Neither one of these is related to DNA

But Here is what I loved about the show:

Crichton Doesn't Always Save the Day
I loved that this one went to Rygel! I think it could've been easy (as in the day of the Star Trek TOS) where it was always the same protagonist every week stepping up and being the hero. I loved that Rygel rose to the occasion and he found pride in doing so. So finally we get to see this soft side of Rygel and they found a way to soft sell Rygel by using the whole What would Rygel the First approach be?

But John did save the day. It was his idea that saved us with the bugs and the Peacekeepers. That is not to dismiss what Rygel did in negotiating with the bugs but it was not Rygel's idea to talk with him. He only did it with Zhaan's pressuring

Along this line of thinking I loved how Zhaan and John had that convo about John's insecurities at this point. Again showing that John is a flawed character in that the rules of this world is always changing and John realizes from the start that he is at a disadvantage to everyone else because "At least they know where they are and how stuff works". I love that John recognizes his "fish out of water-ness". Unlike the Mary Sue like characters we get with Star Wars where the protagonist just somehow rises to the occasion and out performs no matter what is thrown at them.

You really don't like Star Wars? I love it for the opposite reason. It would be idiotic to not bring up John's foreigness to this world. I liked the scenes to show us more of what kind of person Zhaan is. Some of these characters don't get a lot of episodes devoted themselves so these scenes mean a lot.

Also, Johns idea didn't pan out. His idea to mark them with the red mark (I had to laugh at D'argo's idea though LOL) was interesting. It was a small thing but I loved that John was wrong here. Again so many times when one of main characters come up with an idea it just always seems to work. This however didn't play out for them in quite the same way. It also served to keep the suspense of identification in play.

That happens a lot from what I remember of Farscape. Also he is a lesser human

John made decisions with his head and not his heart
The fact that John cranked up the heat putting Aeryn at risk really spoke to me in just how early John is in his relationship with Aeryn at this point. After seeing the entire series (and I don't want to spoil too much here) I really don't think the John in season 3 wouldn't made this same decision. It was even surprising to me that at this point D'Argo even makes mention of it like wow dude you put Aeryn at risk. Well don't get use to it D....
But in by doing that...it caused the PK's to become weakened and well let me just say I do love the whole Heat Delirium concept. I think that again just really ramped up the terror they were experiencing and it allowed us as the audience to see Aeryn's weakness too. And the big bad Peace keepers how in all this ...this could be potentially their Achilles heel.

We cam debate the ship later Their is a reason why its usually frowned to have loved one work with you in high stress jobs. You can't be impartial. In dire consquences like the Peacekeeper squad sometimes you have to risk lives to save the others. How wrong would be that everyone died just because you didn't want to lose one person. Speaking of D'Argo, you can see his caring for Aeryn as a friend is replacing his hate of Peacekeepers. Lets not forget a few weeks ago they were enemies. I mentioned as much that the heat delirium was to make the bugs threatening. Without the heat issue with Aeryn the bugs don't really threaten our survival.

Zhaan and Rygel's dual roles as Ambassadors
I loved how Zhaan's character was used to allow the entity to communicate with the crew and wow that sort of freaked me out when bwe first encountered Zhaan's clone and the whole vomiting of the blue goo. THat was akin to the Alien movie and it was a complete shock and unexpected and I loved that!

You ever notice how Farscape writers love their vomit? Since Zhaan is the first alien bug we encounter, I just assumed it was to give us shock value. Never got an Alien vibe but I dislike that franchise. I don't care for the horror genre.

You gotta love how Rygel rose up and despite his selfishness and constant complaining at the end of the day he went in and communed and helped to communicate their intent as well. Such a selfless act for him and it gave him lots of great points because let's face it Rygel could've fast become rather annoying with this constant complaining but this just made him such a likeable character and valuable part of the crew. Place that against the way in which D'argo more or less threw him into the wall in the first place. You had to laugh as he and John did at Rygel's response. LOL

Could of become annoying? Rygel is annoying with his constant complaining. I wouldn't cause it selfless. He was selfish until he realized it was the only way out. I loved his reaction when John and D'Argo threw him into the maintence shaft

[jelgate]

It the end of the day I think this episode was about showing the weaknesses and strengths of these characters. Another really strong character ep and about team work and using creativity and out of the box thinking to get them out of their jam. Taking risks despite the odds and coming together to defeat the "enemy" without violence and actually turning the tables and seeing it not as an enemy at all but rather another life form just trying to complete it's cycle. Compassion and appreciation for even the smallest of life forms was I think the overall theme of the ep. Horton Hears a Who anyone?

You think everything out of the box I don't call this creative either. Negotiating instead of violence is pretty common. I like the solution just don't agree with the word creative. I will agree with compassion part

[squirrely1]

You think everything out of the box I don't call this creative either. Negotiating instead of violence is pretty common. I like the solution just don't agree with the word creative. I will agree with compassion part

you are just hung up on the word creative cuz it's too closely related to art.

[Falcon Horus]

Look how most people reacts on the Asian communities that eat cats and dogs.

Doesn't John make a note about that - how some people keep animals as pets and others eat them. To Zhaan.

Its time and patience.

I guess, that's what happens when you're a Doctor Who fan - you get them confused.

What got me was how terrible his walking was. I wonder if the bad CGI was why they rarely used it. This is 1999. CGI was fairly new

If you look at any of the other CG I'm surprised Rygel comes out this flawed. Although, there's a difference between backdrops I guess and character animation. The latter much harder and more difficult to accomplish, even this day and each.

I'm 1 for 2 on FH's observations. I'm not surprised to be honest. This is the person who watched Atlantis 6 times in a row to measure screen time.

Those were the days.

[squirrely1]

@Jel...I didn't notice you had responded to my other stuff... I thought it was all FH's responses. Just wanted to point out that I do like Star Wars actually. I can't call myself a true Sci Fi Geek and not like Star Wars. BUT... I don't like the writing and character development alot of times. I think they cheat and take the easy way out. Of course in a movie of only 2 hours duration you have to speed up character development to a point unlike when you have a TV series you can give nice character arcs that take longer and they can go through a much harrowing journey. In a way that makes Television series' way more compelling when it comes to great characters IMO.

[Falcon Horus]

Star Wars is a space opera -- it doesn't do character development well in general. And yet, I love it.

[jelgate]

You know you people don't have to wait for me to do reviews

Throne For a Loss

This is rare Farscape form. We really got two stories that climax at the end of the show. We'll start with the first story. We'll start with the first one. I remember when I first saw this episode I thought it was a rip off of the Stargate episode Upgrades. Research shows that this Farscape episode actually comes first. This is just a continuation of the theme of previous Actually its a theme of most of S1. This episode is again about the bonding of the team. Mostly about John, Aeryn, and D'Argo. In some ways I think we may have taken a step back from the last episode. Notice Zhann's frustration with the idea of Crichton having a plan and how Aeryn says he is almost as clumsy as Luxans. That aside I think if it was me, I would have abandoned Rygel. I mean that is the whole point he took the crystal from Moya's propulsion system. It was an insurance policy. Makes me wonder why they even brought him back in the first place at the end of the episode. He is the reason they got in the whole mess in the first place. Changing gears, I loved the opening where John and Aeryn have to knock D'Argo unconscious while he wear the gauntlet. You want creative SQ? I'll give you creative. I thought the venting to accelerate D'Argo forward so he becomes unconscious was creative. The rest of the main story is just us following the Talvelks. I think the gauntlet is used to highlit what is angering D'Argo and Aeryn. They both anger because of their situations. If you think about the people that is angering them is right in front of them. I mean Aeryn punched John before she even had the gauntlet on. Its not surprising she is mad at him given how he is responsible in some way for losing her Peacekeeper status. Otherwise its just a boring search for Rygel. So this raises the question of why is John not mad? We don't see him really get angry like the others. I think this is because his life on Earth was cushy compared to Aeryn and D'Argo. Before we move on to Rygel viewpoint, I wan to say I love seeing D'Argo sword change to a gun. I found myself bored with the Rygel in the alien prison. I don't need 10 minutes of seeing Rygel gloat of how great he is. It seemed uneeded. The only saving grace is the end when gauntlet John and the Talveks kick Rygel in the bag. Rygel's selfishness annoys me a lot of times. I don't want to know what he did in that bathroom. The second part is the story of how Zhaan helps that Talvek deal with addiction. I for one am surprised more of Zhaan wasn't censored when they showed her naked. This episode highlights why I love Zhaan so much. She had the peace and empathy to want to help with his drug addiction. After all I think we can agree that the gauntlet is a drug. At the same time when Zhaan has been fooled, she is more than capable of knocking the guy. It shows both sides of Zhaan to me She cares but will knock you out when you do something stupid. I liked the ending of how everything Zhaan did to help was undone. You can feel her pain at the episodes end. I will close to say how I was annoyed with John's pop culture references thinking everyone knows what they mean

[jelgate]

you are just hung up on the word creative cuz it's too closely related to art.

No. I just think you overuse the word

Doesn't John make a note about that - how some people keep animals as pets and others eat them. To Zhaan.

I thought the context was different

I guess, that's what happens when you're a Doctor Who fan - you get them confused.

You would be sharper if you didn't watch Doctor Who like me

If you look at any of the other CG I'm surprised Rygel comes out this flawed. Although, there's a difference between backdrops I guess and character animation. The latter much harder and more difficult to accomplish, even this day and each.

Because they are smaller?

Those were the days.

Life was better back then

@Jel...I didn't notice you had responded to my other stuff... I thought it was all FH's responses. Just wanted to point out that I do like Star Wars actually. I can't call myself a true Sci Fi Geek and not like Star Wars. BUT... I don't like the writing and character development alot of times. I think they cheat and take the easy way out. Of course in a movie of only 2 hours duration you have to speed up character development to a point unlike when you have a TV series you can give nice character arcs that take longer and they can go through a much harrowing journey. In a way that makes Television series' way more compelling when it comes to great characters IMO.

Its not my fault you are too slow. I was slightly over the character limit in the first post so I just copied your last post. I agree with you analysis but I don't care for Star Wars a lot. I don't mind the movies but in no rush to see them

Star Wars is a space opera -- it doesn't do character development well in general. And yet, I love it.

Its just mindless action. Yeah I said it. Bring it on your fanboys

[Bluemeany]

Throne for a Loss

Before I start, I held a Eurovision Party ( kinda like a musical Superbowl for the US people) yesterday. This means two things:

a.) I had to skip the Exodus from Genesis rewatch, but I’ve enjoyed reading all the observations in this thread; and
b.) I am still quite hungover.

Consequently what follows may lack observation and coherent sentences. However , here we go... ‘Throne for a Loss’.

From an editing pov: there are a lot of very nice moving shots in this episode. Plenty of action, both interior and exterior, particular for a series 1 episode. I think I spotted several shots that are used in the title credits right up to the end of series 4.

Similarly (for the shippers out there) Aeryn and John seem to be constantly falling into/onto each other with very little respect for personal boundaries. Always useful when you’re trying to mash something together.

The blue leaves thing on the planet look cool. I wonder how they did that? I’d guess filter or something in the grading. I’ve tried to have a go copying the effect it with my WMM but the best I’ve come up with still turns everything slightly tinted. Hey ho.

Like Jelgate, I enjoyed the fact that the alien bloke goes back to his addiction at the end, rejecting Zahn’s teachings. Gives it a nice little twist.

Now, my favourite scene: the ‘don’t you ‘tch’ me' scene. For me this is what’s different about Farscape: characters come before plot (with all the benefits and disadvantages for a series that entails). Characters remember what’s happened to them from scene to scene and episode to episode.

Most shows would play Aeryn knocking out Crichton to get him down the planet (and move the plot on) totally comedic. Whilst Farscape as a show keeps the tone light, Crichton as a character is deadly serious. Of course he wouldn’t be okay with her shanghaiing him! Of course he wouldn’t just ‘forget about’ it in the next scene. He’s going to be pissed off.

Crichton ‘calling out’ Aeryn is also interesting in that (at least more than most shows) it starts to treat violence toward a man as it would violence toward a woman. If you switch their genders (but not their backstory), a TV show wouldn’t have a love-interest male peacekeeper casually hit and knock out a heroine Crichton… not at least without a reference to a ‘serious talk’ being needed.

I also think that ‘Wyle E Cayote could have come up with a better plan than that’ could be the official Moya crew motto for the next four years.

[Bluemeany]

I will close to say how I was annoyed with John's pop culture references thinking everyone knows what they mean

I’ve always viewed Crichton’s pop culture references as kind of a psychological comfort blanket.

Part verbal reminder of something from home to anchor himself. But mainly like little acts of revenge.

He doesn’t understand what all the aliens are talking about half the time and he is trying to learn all the terms (i.e. ‘Tavleks’). Generally the rest of Moya get irritated that he doesn’t just know the stuff they do.

It’s only fair to make them as confused by what he is saying and expect that they have to learn some of his references in return.

[jelgate]

Throne for a Loss

Before I start, I held a Eurovision Party ( kinda like a musical Superbowl for the US people) yesterday. This means two things:

a.) I had to skip the Exodus from Genesis rewatch, but I’ve enjoyed reading all the observations in this thread; and

Don't make yourself a slave to the schedule. We all have lives outside the rewatch and GW. Well except SQ of course. She is a teacher. I understand that not everyone can watch an episode on an assigned date. If you are a few days behind. That's fine. The schedule is for people who join not to get ahead of themselves.

b.) I am still quite hungover.

You should come to the Cantina

Consequently what follows may lack observation and coherent sentences. However , here we go ‘Throne for a Loss’.

From an editing pov: there are a lot of very nice moving shots in this episode. Plenty of action, both interior and exterior, particular for a series 1 episode. I think I spotted several shots that are used in the title credits right up to the end of series 4.

I liked the one from the back of Moya when it was clear its propulsion was longer usable

Similarly (for the shippers out there) Aeryn and John seem to be constantly falling into/onto each other with very little respect for personal boundaries. Always useful when you’re trying to mash something together.

Don't give SQ any ideas. I don't believe it has to do with shipping. They are both in alien situations. John more than Aeryn but lets not forget the foreigness of being separated from your people

The blue leaves thing on the planet look cool. I wonder how they did that? I’d guess filter or something in the grading. I’ve tried to have a go copying the effect it with my WMM but the best I’ve come up with still turns everything slightly tinted. Hey ho.

It could be a special effect instead of a visual one. You know the things the crew changes at the location instead of with the computer.

Like Jelgate, I enjoyed the fact that the alien bloke goes back to his addiction at the end, rejecting Zahn’s teachings. Gives it a nice little twist.

I don't like that who rejected Zhaan's help. The somberness Zhaan feels is very reflective of her character.

Now, my favourite scene: the ‘don’t you ‘tch’ me' scene. For me this is what’s different about Farscape: characters come before plot (with all the benefits and disadvantages for a series that entails). Characters remember what’s happened to them from scene to scene and episode to episode.

Most shows would play Aeryn knocking out Crichton to get him down the planet (and move the plot on) totally comedic. Whilst Farscape as a show keeps the tone light, Crichton as a character is deadly serious. Of course he wouldn’t be okay with her shanghaiing him! Of course he wouldn’t just ‘forget about’ it in the next scene. He’s going to be pissed off.

The irony is I don't recall his kidnapping ever being brought up after he was in Aeryn's prowler.

Crichton ‘calling out’ Aeryn is also interesting in that (at least more than most shows) it starts to treat violence toward a man as it would violence toward a woman. If you switch their genders (but not their backstory), a TV show wouldn’t have a love-interest male peacekeeper casually hit and knock out a heroine!Crichton… not at least without a reference to a ‘serious talk’ being needed.

You can even apply that to the real not just TV. Society is going to be leinient to a woman beating a man. A fact that annoys me about our legal system but that's not relevant to this thread

I also think that ‘Wyle E Cayote could have come up with a better plan than that’ could be the official Moya crew motto for the next four years.

I recall Rygel saying something about the whole crew being insane in a later episode

See, I’ve always viewed Crichton’s pop culture references as kind of a psychological comfort blanket.

Part verbal reminder of something from home to anchor himself. But mainly like little acts of revenge.

He doesn’t understand what all the aliens are talking about half the time and he is trying to learn all the terms (i.e. ‘Tavleks’). Generally the rest of Moya get irritated that he doesn’t just know the stuff they do.

It’s only fair to make them as confused by what he is saying and expect that they have to learn some of his references in return.

I can understand that but when he gets annoyed that no one understand his references, I get annoyed. You're on the other side of the galaxy. How the frell are that suppose to know what you mean?

[squirrely1]

Wow love all the insights so far! Even "hung over" Bluemeany's! *giggles* so here we go..

Throne For A Loss

In the beginning....hmmm something else starts this way...*scratches head and shrugs* Oh well....In the beginning what really struck me was just how cranky everyone was and immediately I remembered the 4 stages of Team Building (Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing)....(which was very prevalent at the time this was in production) and it appears they are using this. The team up to now has been newly formed (only 3 or so eps in we can figure they haven't been together too long) so this is quite natural that the team is moving into the "STORMING" phase. They are getting on each others nerves, they are starting to get a tad selfish and I noticed as Jel pointed out they are regressing back somewhat into their "oh Crichton is a neanderthal" mentality. So to me this was obvious that the team at this point was struggling with finding a way to put aside their differences and truly gel. Here is what I truly loved about this ep:

Drugs, Warriors and Weapons...oh my!

The other very obvious theme in this ep to me was the struggle for who had the bigger *ahem* member ....If you know what I mean Typical struggle for the Alpha "male" and Aeryn is not off the board, but keep in mind this is a running theme between D'argo and Crichton (early on in this series)...each of them are really trying to flex their muscles to one another to determine who is going to be the true leader of this group. I think this is why D'Argo seems so angry in these early eps. John just uses his brain and tries to out think and out wit D....but D is mainly more about showing how superior his brute strength is. Thinking that would make him the better leader. So this brings me to his Qualta blade. Love that weapon too Jel and how it was converted in this ep. But again this has been something D'argo has been "stroking" LOL literally throughout the eps and we finally get to see this thing in action.

Aeryn too is all about the brute strength in this ep. It really is framed nicely since we just came off 2 rather peaceful and symbiotic seeking eps that quite naturally this string of violence brings about a refreshing change and allows the opportunity to see our more battle ready characters flex their warrior muscles. But even before she puts on the gauntlet she is bound and determined, despite John's insistence that she take along her rifle. And then upon meeting the motley Tevleks John is shocked he has (aside from the warring PK's) miscalculated and is standing face to face with a brutal society. I liked that whole encounter and John's surprise. Good thing Aeryn brought along that Rifle! But my point is Aeryn is naturally already battle ready as D is ...ready for a good fight. And the gauntlet for them really intensifies this.

So the natural warrior is heightened when D or even Aeryn for that matter put on the gautlet. Notice it didn't really affect John that way. He didn't get as "angry" with it on as Aeryn and D did I think mainly because John isn't naturally more hell bent on the warrior behavior like Aeryn and D'argo are.
Speaking of the guantlet, I loved that weapon BTW and again the creative concepts the writing team comes up with for these eps. Which brings me to the Drugs part and probably the only thing that truly bothered me in this ep. Now jel don't go all crazy on me....but Zhaan actually bugged me in this ep. *ducks flying objects* the reason is twofold:

1. Zhaan I think at times is too trusting to a fault. I knew the moment she was called away and that Tavlek said he would find his way back, I knew that wouldn't end well and sure enough. I call plot device on that as we wouldn't have had a chance to see Zhaan's strong side as in her brute strength there we go again that word just keeps cropping up in this ep. But again, I found it annoying that she would saunter off so easily to leave her ward just hanging out with full run of the ship.

2. Zhaan seems to be hell bent on forcing her ward to get clean and stay clean. We all know that it's hard to help an addict unless the addict wants your help. It's clear this is the way of the Tavlek and by Zhaan's insistence on him coming around and kicking his habit and changing she was assuming that he wanted that and that it would be better for him. Whatever happened to live and let live and do not interfere...oh wait that's Star Trek....sorry But again, I just think she was trying to force her own ways onto this species.

But it's not all bad...jel don't fear....cuz I loved how they exchanged their nakedness. This was brilliant in that it again supported the theme that "I have bigger balls than you" type thing. Or "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" I really liked how this ep was all about raw power and stripping away quite literally at all the things that characters can tend to hide behind.

So at the end of the day the drug, the clothes even the weapons themselves can be an extension of the character which can give them a sort of identity but then remove that and you get a glimpse of another side of them and they were all about comparing that to each other in this ep.

Aeryn and John's bickering
@Bluemeany-Thanks for pointing out that Aeryn/John shippers would love this ep because they were falling all over each other and touching each other. Then you have D'argo's Don't touch me! It was a lovely contrast. I also loved how John and Aeryn are bickering like a married couple. LOL ANd it's interesting that you would compare the gender roles in violence towards each other. I also liked how John was not going to let her off the hook. And I wish he would've had it in him (if she hadn't knocked him out) to punch her right back. I loved that about Battlestar Galactica with Starbuck and Apollo....she got just as much as she dished out and rightly so.

But back to John and Aeryn...I like how they are the sort of barometer of the team and when they fight or are bickering it sort of effects the whole team. I enjoy them trying to come to terms with the (albeit slight at this point) attraction to one another and how that is effecting them and their relationship and that maybe they are denying any feelings they may be having and or even replacing them with frustration or anger.


@Jel-your point about leaving Rygel. Come on he just saved them in the last ep, they couldn't leave him....well if it were up to the rest of the crew maybe but John and Zhaan wouldn't hear of it. Besides he had the crystal and if you noticed when John finally got the bagged Rygel he had swallowed the crystal so he had to take him back or maybe even at that point John may have even left him there.


Finally the ending was bittersweet but I liked it that Zhaan's efforts didn't pay off with regard to sobering up the Tavlek. And I think that was way more realistic and another reason why I love this show because at the end of the day everything isn't all tied up in a nice neat little package. It shows that life is messy even in the other galaxies and you can't force others to do what you want them to do just because you think it's better for them. I think that was a great learning experience for Zhaan too and shows that while she is very loving and strong, she also fails and takes her failures to heart. It's the failures of these characters that many times makes them so charming.

[Bluemeany]

I really liked how this ep was all about raw power and stripping away quite literally at all the things that characters can tend to hide behind.

So at the end of the day the drug, the clothes even the weapons themselves can be an extension of the character which can give them a sort of identity but then remove that and you get a glimpse of another side of them and they were all about comparing that to each other in this ep.

Ooo yes, that’s a good thought. I hadn’t picked up on that:

Aeryn, D’Argo and (to a lesser extent) Crichton get testosterone-fueled power and aggression by putting an item of clothing on.
Zahn tries to control the situation by using attraction/vulnerability and taking everything off.

Kind of mirrors what you were saying about where John & Aeryn’s relationship is at this point: there are two modes they are switching between: aggression and frustration on the one hand, and attraction on the other… both more to do with hormones than actually conscious choices.

[Falcon Horus]

Because they are smaller?

Because backdrops rarely need much moving.

Before I start, I held a Eurovision Party ( kinda like a musical Superbowl for the US people) yesterday.

I watched until Israel came on and then switched back to Farscape.
So I watched my country start the show and then sorta lingered during dinner, and then moved on.

The blue leaves thing on the planet look cool. I wonder how they did that? I’d guess filter or something in the grading. I’ve tried to have a go copying the effect it with my WMM but the best I’ve come up with still turns everything slightly tinted. Hey ho.

From the looks of it, I'd say that they spray painted the plants on site. I think itt's an actual effect done by the prop/set department.

+++++

Throne For A Loss

So, the Tafloids are in the business of kidnap-and-ransom. And getting addicted to methamphetemines or PCP, but without the dellusions.

Zhaan tries to get one of them clean, while John and Aeryn have to go and free the little furball as he took an insurance policy not to be left behind (on any occasion).

Aeryn and D'Argo wearing the glove fuels their warrior side -- John's a geek and thus he becomes a superhero. And then it fails, and he's left to his wits to safe the situation from becoming ugly. Rygel gets kicked a lot and stuck in mud, his least favorite thing to be around.
Aeryn and D'Argo compare headaches.

[Bluemeany]

From the looks of it, I'd say that they spray painted the plants on site. I think itt's an actual effect done by the prop/set department.

+++++

.

Blimey! It must have taken them ages to spray them all. It was like the entire forest. Unless they are dropping the paint from the air napalm style . How the hell do you get environmental permission for that? Hopefully they used something non-toxic....

I'm still leaning towards it being a filter trick done in the edit you know... but I'll be damned if I can copy it or figure out how it was done.

[jelgate]

Wow love all the insights so far! Even "hung over" Bluemeany's! *giggles* so here we go..

Yes we know you are a mindless shipper

Throne For A Loss

In the beginning....hmmm something else starts this way...*scratches head and shrugs* Oh well....In the beginning what really struck me was just how cranky everyone was and immediately I remembered the 4 stages of Team Building (Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing)....(which was very prevalent at the time this was in production) and it appears they are using this. The team up to now has been newly formed (only 3 or so eps in we can figure they haven't been together too long) so this is quite natural that the team is moving into the "STORMING" phase. They are getting on each others nerves, they are starting to get a tad selfish and I noticed as Jel pointed out they are regressing back somewhat into their "oh Crichton is a neanderthal" mentality. So to me this was obvious that the team at this point was struggling with finding a way to put aside their differences and truly gel. Here is what I truly loved about this ep:

I kind of like the friction that was caught up in the early season. I look at how much John and D'Argo are rivals in the early season. Then look at them in S4 where I find them as close friends. I had a friend in real life like that

Drugs, Warriors and Weapons...oh my!

The other very obvious theme in this ep to me was the struggle for who had the bigger *ahem* member ....If you know what I mean Typical struggle for the Alpha "male" and Aeryn is not off the board, but keep in mind this is a running theme between D'argo and Crichton (early on in this series)...each of them are really trying to flex their muscles to one another to determine who is going to be the true leader of this group. I think this is why D'Argo seems so angry in these early eps. John just uses his brain and tries to out think and out wit D....but D is mainly more about showing how superior his brute strength is. Thinking that would make him the better leader. So this brings me to his Qualta blade. Love that weapon too Jel and how it was converted in this ep. But again this has been something D'argo has been "stroking" LOL literally throughout the eps and we finally get to see this thing in action.

At the risk of angering the feminists I kind of think Aeryn was vieing for the alpha male. I cite how Aeryn punches John when she argues. I find Aeryn just as angry as much as D'Argo. A lot of that on both sides is because of the gauntlet. D'Argo can use his brain as well as we have seen through the show. I think the gauntlet is largely to blame in how it brings out aggression.

Aeryn too is all about the brute strength in this ep. It really is framed nicely since we just came off 2 rather peaceful and symbiotic seeking eps that quite naturally this string of violence brings about a refreshing change and allows the opportunity to see our more battle ready characters flex their warrior muscles. But even before she puts on the gauntlet she is bound and determined, despite John's insistence that she take along her rifle. And then upon meeting the motley Tevleks John is shocked he has (aside from the warring PK's) miscalculated and is standing face to face with a brutal society. I liked that whole encounter and John's surprise. Good thing Aeryn brought along that Rifle! But my point is Aeryn is naturally already battle ready as D is ...ready for a good fight. And the gauntlet for them really intensifies this.

I think a lot of that is the Peacekeeper upbring Aeryn had. If we believe the crew of Moya, Peackeepers only respond to brute strength.

So the natural warrior is heightened when D or even Aeryn for that matter put on the gautlet. Notice it didn't really affect John that way. He didn't get as "angry" with it on as Aeryn and D did I think mainly because John isn't naturally more hell bent on the warrior behavior like Aeryn and D'argo are.
Speaking of the guantlet, I loved that weapon BTW and again the creative concepts the writing team comes up with for these eps. Which brings me to the Drugs part and probably the only thing that truly bothered me in this ep. Now jel don't go all crazy on me....but Zhaan actually bugged me in this ep. *ducks flying objects* the reason is twofold:

I kind of half agree with you. I position that its because John doesn't have as much anger for the gauntlet to intestify. I think its more of the environment. John wasn't a soldier or prisioner like D'Argo or Aeryn. He has had a relatively peaceful life. Its okay SQ. I respect you being wrong.

1. Zhaan I think at times is too trusting to a fault. I knew the moment she was called away and that Tavlek said he would find his way back, I knew that wouldn't end well and sure enough. I call plot device on that as we wouldn't have had a chance to see Zhaan's strong side as in her brute strength there we go again that word just keeps cropping up in this ep. But again, I found it annoying that she would saunter off so easily to leave her ward just hanging out with full run of the ship.

I always interpreted that as a test on Zhaan's part. She walked away to see if the Tavlek really had beaten the addiction. He failed obviously. We already have seen how strong Zhaan is before that scene

2. Zhaan seems to be hell bent on forcing her ward to get clean and stay clean. We all know that it's hard to help an addict unless the addict wants your help. It's clear this is the way of the Tavlek and by Zhaan's insistence on him coming around and kicking his habit and changing she was assuming that he wanted that and that it would be better for him. Whatever happened to live and let live and do not interfere...oh wait that's Star Trek....sorry But again, I just think she was trying to force her own ways onto this species.

Zhaan is a healer. We see that in multiple episodes. Addiction in simplest terms is a disease so Zhaan want to cure him of a disease. You are half correct SQ. You can't cure him unless he want help. I would point out most people with mental disease don't want to be cured. A big part of psychology is getting people to want help. So I don't think its that unreasonable that Zhaan was trying to get the Tavloids (John moment) to want to get better

But it's not all bad...jel don't fear....cuz I loved how they exchanged their nakedness. This was brilliant in that it again supported the theme that "I have bigger balls than you" type thing. Or "I'll show you mine if you show me yours" I really liked how this ep was all about raw power and stripping away quite literally at all the things that characters can tend to hide behind.

More than anything it gave an insight into Delvan culture. I surprised the censors allowed it

So at the end of the day the drug, the clothes even the weapons themselves can be an extension of the character which can give them a sort of identity but then remove that and you get a glimpse of another side of them and they were all about comparing that to each other in this ep.

Such a concept is actually proven in the real world. Its like how you act different to your co-workers compared to your family

Aeryn and John's bickering
@Bluemeany-Thanks for pointing out that Aeryn/John shippers would love this ep because they were falling all over each other and touching each other. Then you have D'argo's Don't touch me! It was a lovely contrast. I also loved how John and Aeryn are bickering like a married couple. LOL ANd it's interesting that you would compare the gender roles in violence towards each other. I also liked how John was not going to let her off the hook. And I wish he would've had it in him (if she hadn't knocked him out) to punch her right back. I loved that about Battlestar Galactica with Starbuck and Apollo....she got just as much as she dished out and rightly so.

Meh. Shippers will see what the want to see. If you remove the fact Aeryn is a woman her fighting with John is not any different than the fighting with D'Argo

But back to John and Aeryn...I like how they are the sort of barometer of the team and when they fight or are bickering it sort of effects the whole team. I enjoy them trying to come to terms with the (albeit slight at this point) attraction to one another and how that is effecting them and their relationship and that maybe they are denying any feelings they may be having and or even replacing them with frustration or anger.

More shipper nonsense. I see no attraction at this point. Its the same as John interacting with all the character of him getting to know these people and their species.

@Jel-your point about leaving Rygel. Come on he just saved them in the last ep, they couldn't leave him....well if it were up to the rest of the crew maybe but John and Zhaan wouldn't hear of it. Besides he had the crystal and if you noticed when John finally got the bagged Rygel he had swallowed the crystal so he had to take him back or maybe even at that point John may have even left him there.

I don't see Rygel as the hero of the last episode. I believe I mentioned if Rygel didn't have the crystal in my review. If I didn't, I meant too.

Finally the ending was bittersweet but I liked it that Zhaan's efforts didn't pay off with regard to sobering up the Tavlek. And I think that was way more realistic and another reason why I love this show because at the end of the day everything isn't all tied up in a nice neat little package. It shows that life is messy even in the other galaxies and you can't force others to do what you want them to do just because you think it's better for them. I think that was a great learning experience for Zhaan too and shows that while she is very loving and strong, she also fails and takes her failures to heart. It's the failures of these characters that many times makes them so charming.

The ending scene is why I loved the ZHaan story. It was giving a realistic approach to addiction and it was bittersweet because you saw how it hurt Zhaan

Ooo yes, that’s a good thought. I hadn’t picked up on that:

That is what we are here for

Aeryn, D’Argo and (to a lesser extent) Crichton get testosterone-fueled power and aggression by putting an item of clothing on.
Zahn tries to control the situation by using attraction/vulnerability and taking everything off.

Why does everyone link testosterone to anger. Their are other ways to be angry. As for ZHaan, I think it was compassion to control the situation.

Kind of mirrors what you were saying about where John & Aeryn’s relationship is at this point: there are two modes they are switching between: aggression and frustration on the one hand, and attraction on the other… both more to do with hormones than actually conscious choices.

Don't see it. At this point they have no attraction to one another. All the characters on Moya have aggression and frusturation.

[jelgate]

Because backdrops rarely need much moving.

But the ships do?

I watched until Israel came on and then switched back to Farscape.
So I watched my country start the show and then sorta lingered during dinner, and then moved on.

Where are your priorities, you hazmot.

From the looks of it, I'd say that they spray painted the plants on site. I think itt's an actual effect done by the prop/set department.

Didn't Stargate do something like that to disguise British Columbia forests?
+++++

Throne For A Loss

So, the Tafloids are in the business of kidnap-and-ransom. And getting addicted to methamphetemines or PCP, but without the dellusions.

Tavleks I think steroids would be a better analogy

Zhaan tries to get one of them clean, while John and Aeryn have to go and free the little furball as he took an insurance policy not to be left behind (on any occasion).

Aeryn and D'Argo wearing the glove fuels their warrior side -- John's a geek and thus he becomes a superhero. And then it fails, and he's left to his wits to safe the situation from becoming ugly. Rygel gets kicked a lot and stuck in mud, his least favorite thing to be around.
Aeryn and D'Argo compare headaches.

I think that describes John. As Pilot says in a future episode, their isn't anything remarkable about humans. He is probably the resourceful character. A lot of that is due to his alien enviroment

Blimey! It must have taken them ages to spray them all. It was like the entire forest. Unless they are dropping the paint from the air napalm style . How the hell do you get environmental permission for that? Hopefully they used something non-toxic....

I'm still leaning towards it being a filter trick done in the edit you know... but I'll be damned if I can copy it or figure out how it was done.

I think you are underestimating stunt choreography. The small areas of forests are mapped out for scenes. The special effects teams just has to pain that small area. And of course its non-toxic

[Falcon Horus]

Blimey! It must have taken them ages to spray them all. It was like the entire forest. Unless they are dropping the paint from the air napalm style . How the hell do you get environmental permission for that? Hopefully they used something non-toxic....

I believe they use a non-toxic, powder-based sort of paint. It's sprayed on in large quantities. Kinda like how they can spray fake snow over a large surface. Sure, it's not something you do in an hour but it's pretty effective, and washes away with a little water like rain.

But the ships do?

Trust me linear animation is way easier and less complicated than character animation.

Where are your priorities, you hazmot.

Not in the right order.

Didn't Stargate do something like that to disguise British Columbia forests?

They probably did.

[squirrely1]

@ Bluemeany and Falcon Horus with respect to the blue flora, they could've actually used an artificial plant/flower and just added it into the typical plant life around the set where they were filming. That may have been an easier way to do it rather than spray paint them. I think they obviously used colored lighting alot as well to help change the color of things.

[Falcon Horus]

@ Bluemeany and Falcon Horus with respect to the blue flora, they could've actually used an artificial plant/flower and just added it into the typical plant life around the set where they were filming. That may have been an easier way to do it rather than spray paint them. I think they obviously used colored lighting alot as well to help change the color of things.

Alas, it looks like Blue had it right the first time... Just found this on another website (tor.com):

The blue vegetation was achieved by grading the film in post production. The plants were not painted. This episode was filmed at the same time as ‘I E.T.’.

And there's also a mention about the lack of Anthony's colored lenses:

Backstage: During the scene when D’Argo stuns Aeryn, you get a good look at the green contact lenses that were dropped after Anthony Simcoe got makeup removal fluid in his eyes and had to be rushed to hospital with a damaged cornea; the doctor forbade him to wear lenses for six months afterwards, hence his eyes changing from green to normal during the first four episodes depending on whether a scene was filmed before or after the accident.