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  1. #1
    Site Admin GateWorld's Avatar
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    Post Versus Zoom (218)

    Visit the Episode GuideTHE FLASH - SEASON TWO
    VERSUS ZOOM
    EPISODE NUMBER - 218
    Convinced he has acquired enough speed to beat Zoom, Barry looks to open a breach -- making a way for his enemy to come through and once again wreak havoc on the people he loves. Harry reveals Hunter Zoloman's frightening history on Earth-2.

    VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >>
    Last edited by GateWorld; April 23rd, 2016 at 08:52 PM.

  2. #2
    Captain Jeffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    I really liked this episode all except for Barry still giving up his speed after Zoom had handed over Wally first. At that point Barry had a huge advantage and still gave up his speed.

    Still don't know who's in the mask I'm thinking Hunters dad. Maybe the actual Jay Gerrick.

    Also not sure why Barry tried to reason with Hunter he should have been put in a cell immediately.
    Last edited by Jeffer; April 20th, 2016 at 12:13 PM.
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  3. #3
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    YEa.. That was almost a 'Doc evil being standardly stupid' moment... Why didn't he beat him out cold, lock him in one of those 'powerless cells, THEN remiss him about why...

  4. #4
    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    I don't understand the explanation for the second Jay. Why doesn't murdering his past self erase himself from existence?

    I thought it was pretty weird how they just showed the explanation for the Supergirl crossover, but then ignored it entirely.

    Harry: There is no way to another Earth!
    Flash: Yep, and I sure didn't just come from one like just now.

    Also I'm pretty sure Wally was watching a Formula 1 race from like two decades ago.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

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  5. #5
    First Lieutenant Archaeis's Avatar
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    Quite a few things that I didn’t think added up about the Zoom explanation.


    - Now-Zoom and Caitlin discuss things as if it happened between them and not past-Zoom. Unless Now-Zoom remembers those things in real-time from his past self.
    And if they are so closely connected:
    - Now-Zoom went back in time to team up with past-Zoom in order to be on 2 worlds at once. Now-Zoom said he convinced past-Zoom to be murdered, so why doesn’t that erase now-Zoom?

    - Hunter Zolomon was immediately recognized by Wells and said he was quite famous on Earth-2. Why did no one recognize “Jay Garrick” Flash as him?
    - “Jay” had a background in science that he demonstrated on several instances to Caitlin that couldn’t have been scripted or planned ahead of time. So far as we know, Hunter Zolomon never had the opportunity to become proficient in advanced sciences.
    - Now-Zoom admits to having the sickness from Velocity. So did past-Zoom (Jay) but their lightning were 2 different colors. Judging from Trajectory, this is a side-effect of Velocity, but it’s unlikely that it’s directly related to only speed, as Barry was going faster than Zoom this episode.

    Any others I missed?
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  6. #6
    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    If this was a Zolomon from before he gained speedster powers then why is he dying? Isn't it the Velocity drugs that were killing him?
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    I don't understand the explanation for the second Jay. Why doesn't murdering his past self erase himself from existence?
    Maybe the back time Jay was a different reality's one.. Perhaps that is who the man in the mask is.. The real Jay..

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    I thought it was pretty weird how they just showed the explanation for the Supergirl crossover, but then ignored it entirely.

    Harry: There is no way to another Earth!
    Flash: Yep, and I sure didn't just come from one like just now.
    It was kinda fubar that they didn't even Mention that..

  8. #8
    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    Also, what exactly was Zoom's plan? He wanted them to think Jay was dead so Barry could go faster, but he also didn't want them to close the breach. Yet he still had Jay help them do so?
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by Archaeis View Post
    Quite a few things that I didn’t think added up about the Zoom explanation.


    - Now-Zoom and Caitlin discuss things as if it happened between them and not past-Zoom. Unless Now-Zoom remembers those things in real-time from his past self.
    And if they are so closely connected:
    - Now-Zoom went back in time to team up with past-Zoom in order to be on 2 worlds at once. Now-Zoom said he convinced past-Zoom to be murdered, so why doesn’t that erase now-Zoom?

    - Hunter Zolomon was immediately recognized by Wells and said he was quite famous on Earth-2. Why did no one recognize “Jay Garrick” Flash as him?
    - “Jay” had a background in science that he demonstrated on several instances to Caitlin that couldn’t have been scripted or planned ahead of time. So far as we know, Hunter Zolomon never had the opportunity to become proficient in advanced sciences.
    - Now-Zoom admits to having the sickness from Velocity. So did past-Zoom (Jay) but their lightning were 2 different colors. Judging from Trajectory, this is a side-effect of Velocity, but it’s unlikely that it’s directly related to only speed, as Barry was going faster than Zoom this episode.

    Any others I missed?
    Maybe Wells had herd the name but not actually seen his face because he was to wrapped up in the particular accelerater. And with Hunters hair cut short like that he did look different from the photo.

    Hunter/Jay could have speed read books similar to what Barry has done.

    The blue is from running faster using the speed drug. That women that used it didn't have her lightning turn blue until she ran faster on the second dose. Barry's didn't run blue because he didn't use the drug I think it is directly related to the drug.
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  10. #10
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    If this was a Zolomon from before he gained speedster powers then why is he dying? Isn't it the Velocity drugs that were killing him?
    I understood it differently. Zolomon took the Velocity 9 in order to gain speed, but one use is enough to make your Body unstable. How he actually lost his speed is still a mystery, but either Zoom stole it or he has become so addicted to the Drug that he cant speedup without it. The Zolomon that died was a future version and not past, again a reason why he would be powerless without the drug if he was that sick already.

    The Guy in the Mask is most definatly Rani(not sure how his name is spelled). He split from the Professor inside the rift and dissapeared after. So either he was killed when the rift collapsed or he was thrown to the other Dimension, just like Zolomons Flash-Hat had appeared on Earth 1.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    It could be Ronnie but that would be a very plausible explanation the line "You wouldn't believe me if I told you" makes me think it's someone we haven't meet.

    As I write that it makes me think even more about that scene honestly Wally was gone and safe Barry could have attacked Zoom and put him in a cell they were all just sitting there like normal chatting. Everything that Barry did in this episode made absolutely no sense
    Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    It could be Ronnie but that would be a very plausible explanation the line "You wouldn't believe me if I told you" makes me think it's someone we haven't meet.

    As I write that it makes me think even more about that scene honestly Wally was gone and safe Barry could have attacked Zoom and put him in a cell they were all just sitting there like normal chatting. Everything that Barry did in this episode made absolutely no sense
    Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together

  13. #13
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffer View Post
    It could be Ronnie but that would be a very plausible explanation the line "You wouldn't believe me if I told you" makes me think it's someone we haven't meet.

    As I write that it makes me think even more about that scene honestly Wally was gone and safe Barry could have attacked Zoom and put him in a cell they were all just sitting there like normal chatting. Everything that Barry did in this episode made absolutely no sense
    That would most likely make it a third Flash. The only thing he ever got out was Jay Garret, the fake name of Zoom. If he was Ronnie and wanting to tell him that, he would probably have used his own name.

    As for Barry not taking down Zoom. We all should know there is a unspoken superhero codex. A Hero can never break his promisses, is amongst some of them. He wouldnt be much of a Hero, if he cheated.
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  14. #14
    Captain Jeffer's Avatar
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    An interesting theroy I just read

    Hunter took his mom's name "Zolomon" when Hunter killed his mother. He told the police it was his dad and his Dad being a good person took the fall plus the police didn't belive him after Hunter said that his dad killed his mom. The name of Hunters dad Jay Gerrick and thus the man in the mask IS Jay, Hunters father
    Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by tomstone View Post
    That would most likely make it a third Flash. The only thing he ever got out was Jay Garret, the fake name of Zoom. If he was Ronnie and wanting to tell him that, he would probably have used his own name.

    As for Barry not taking down Zoom. We all should know there is a unspoken superhero codex. A Hero can never break his promisses, is amongst some of them. He wouldnt be much of a Hero, if he cheated.
    How would he, beating zoom down and locking him up, be breaking his promise??

  16. #16
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    How would he, beating zoom down and locking him up, be breaking his promise??
    You cant just make a Deal and use it to defeat your Enemy, also we have already seen that Barry is no match for Zoom. There is no reason to think that Plan would work.
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  17. #17
    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    Initially I assumed they would do the trade on Earth-2 and Barry would somehow end up injecting Wally with the speedforce instead of Zoom.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by tomstone View Post
    You cant just make a Deal and use it to defeat your Enemy, also we have already seen that Barry is no match for Zoom. There is no reason to think that Plan would work.
    That deal though was AFTER barry got zoom here, 'tried beating him' and almost did the big dumb evil guy pontificating to Jay, letting him strengthen back up and run away, kidnapping wally.
    THAT is what i was on about. Not doing something during the 'deal later on...

  19. #19
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    what I wonder is why he didn't just tell Jay that he could just go back in time and stop his father from killing his mother. of course there is still more to go , so who knows what will happen in the next episodes.

  20. #20
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    Default Re: Versus Zoom (218)

    Quote Originally Posted by epg20 View Post
    what I wonder is why he didn't just tell Jay that he could just go back in time and stop his father from killing his mother. of course there is still more to go , so who knows what will happen in the next episodes.
    That's because time travel is dangerous as we saw in Flash Back, and doesn't always work as planned as we saw when Barry tried to save his parents...and Jay is a tad bit wacko.

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