The coming end of internet freedom

[mad_gater]

That is what whistles are for.

or one of those compressed air horns you see lifeguards at public pools using

[Coco Pops]

So, you are running as root. You hit a web page which has itself been infected with something that infects your computer, and it is running with root privileges. It can therefore do anything to your computer that you could, harmful or not.

Only I don't visit anything that looks remotely dodgy. I'm very cautious about visiting websites.

[Annoyed]

Only I don't visit anything that looks remotely dodgy. I'm very cautious about visiting websites.

Yahoo looks dodgy? They have sold ads to some company that pops up scamware screens, trying to trick people into letting them into their computers so they can "fix" something that isn't even broken for a couple of hundred bucks. This is in addition to their own trash, "Yahoo! Search"

What if the next guy they sell ads to sneaks some thing worse ?

[Coco Pops]

Yahoo looks dodgy? They have sold ads to some company that pops up scamware screens, trying to trick people into letting them into their computers so they can "fix" something that isn't even broken for a couple of hundred bucks. This is in addition to their own trash, "Yahoo! Search"

What if the next guy they sell ads to sneaks some thing worse ?

Simple I never visit yahoo

[Womble]

Absolutely, the bad guys target the platform with the widest market penetration, but the design of the OS itself also makes *nix variants more secure.

The OS security model is better under both Linux and OSX (Which is basically BSD UNIX with a pretty face on it)

Unless you're an idiot, you don't run day to day as the root user. You shouldn't under Windows either, but in the *nix world it's practical to not run as root, whereas for years, Windows made it so much of a PITA to gain admin access to do required tasks that most people gave up and ran as an admin user all the time. Windows trained the average user to be insecure.

The flip side is that if you want third-party developer support, you need to give all kinds of permissions / privileges. Reminds me of Google's recent attempt to stop app developers from using "accessibility services" on Android. The features are designed to assist handicapped people, but they are leveraged by password managers, apps that monitor signal strength, battery managers and apps that allow you to remap your phone's keys. Unless you are a fan of iOS-style digital prison, the freedom of developing justifies the risks, up to a point.

Also, non-tech savvy people are not "idiots". Tech just isn't the center of their life, and there is no reason it should be. All of us are clueless in the areas of life which are not our primary expertise. (Something I've learned from years of dealing with the most outlandish travel errors - they do not indicate one's general intelligence but rather their state of mind at the point of booking). The safeguards must be built into the tech, not outsourced to "personal responsibility" of my 67 year old mom whose computer needs are limited to using Skype and scanning documents.

They have been getting better with recent releases, with User Account Control, for example, but this isn't all that hot either. If you try to install something, UAC prompts you, and all you have to do is click ok and answer yes to get admin rights. Windows has trained people to click just about anything. *snicker* One of the security software companies put up a web page a while back with a big button on it that said "Click here to infect your computer" and an astounding number of people clicked on it.

That is true, the long-winded EULA may contain a paragraph requiring you to sacrifice your first-born, and most people would never know.

That is why I like ChromeOS cloud-based security model. Almost nothing gets downloaded locally and every web page is sandboxed; even if you download a virus file, it cannot launch. Verification on every boot, system reset with the push of a button. The only way to get hacked is to download a bad Chrome extention (difficult to do accidentally unless you remove the safeguards and go outside of the curated store), or use unsecured wifi.

[Annoyed]

The flip side is that if you want third-party developer support, you need to give all kinds of permissions / privileges. Reminds me of Google's recent attempt to stop app developers from using "accessibility services" on Android. The features are designed to assist handicapped people, but they are leveraged by password managers, apps that monitor signal strength, battery managers and apps that allow you to remap your phone's keys. Unless you are a fan of iOS-style digital prison, the freedom of developing justifies the risks, up to a point.

Also, non-tech savvy people are not "idiots". Tech just isn't the center of their life, and there is no reason it should be. All of us are clueless in the areas of life which are not our primary expertise. (Something I've learned from years of dealing with the most outlandish travel errors - they do not indicate one's general intelligence but rather their state of mind at the point of booking). The safeguards must be built into the tech, not outsourced to "personal responsibility" of my 67 year old mom whose computer needs are limited to using Skype and scanning documents.


That is true, the long-winded EULA may contain a paragraph requiring you to sacrifice your first-born, and most people would never know.

That is why I like ChromeOS cloud-based security model. Almost nothing gets downloaded locally and every web page is sandboxed; even if you download a virus file, it cannot launch. Verification on every boot, system reset with the push of a button. The only way to get hacked is to download a bad Chrome extention (difficult to do accidentally unless you remove the safeguards and go outside of the curated store), or use unsecured wifi.

True, the average user doesn't have to know the gory under the hood details, but just as with a car, you ought to know the basics of how it works and how to take care of it on a basic level. It's the cost of using the tool. How many times do repair shops financially rape people who haven't learned the basics of how a car operates and is maintained? Same principle.

As the average guy uses more tools, he has to learn more. But, on the other hand, you no longer need to know how to ride a horse.

Oh, and Google's OS is derived from Linux.

[Coco Pops]

What we really need is "A Machine" to spy on us every day, to predict crimes before they happen and warn of threats. Hmmmm I think I saw that somewhere

[Ian-S]

My mum once got one of those "your computer is infected with a virus" scam calls, I happen to be there and not being a tech savvy she didn't understand and was getting quiet annoyed, so I took the phone and put it on mute, quickly explained what was going on and told her what to say, she said to the guy she would have to go and boot the pc up so she would be back, she placed the phone in front of the radio and we went to the park with my son.

When we came back two hours later the guy on the other end was still holding on, she said the computer just blew up and hung up on him. They still get called, but don't answer if they don't know the number now.

[Coco Pops]

My mum once got one of those "your computer is infected with a virus" scam calls, I happen to be there and not being a tech savvy she didn't understand and was getting quiet annoyed, so I took the phone and put it on mute, quickly explained what was going on and told her what to say, she said to the guy she would have to go and boot the pc up so she would be back, she placed the phone in front of the radio and we went to the park with my son.

When we came back two hours later the guy on the other end was still holding on, she said the computer just blew up and hung up on him. They still get called, but don't answer if they don't know the number now.

OMG 2 hours

[mad_gater]

My mum once got one of those "your computer is infected with a virus" scam calls, I happen to be there and not being a tech savvy she didn't understand and was getting quiet annoyed, so I took the phone and put it on mute, quickly explained what was going on and told her what to say, she said to the guy she would have to go and boot the pc up so she would be back, she placed the phone in front of the radio and we went to the park with my son.

When we came back two hours later the guy on the other end was still holding on, she said the computer just blew up and hung up on him. They still get called, but don't answer if they don't know the number now.

you guys have some mighty persistent scammers

[Gatefan1976]

you guys have some mighty persistent scammers

They should apply for political positions

[Annoyed]

They should apply for political positions

Nah, they're far too honest.

[Womble]

True, the average user doesn't have to know the gory under the hood details, but just as with a car, you ought to know the basics of how it works and how to take care of it on a basic level. It's the cost of using the tool. How many times do repair shops financially rape people who haven't learned the basics of how a car operates and is maintained? Same principle.

As the average guy uses more tools, he has to learn more. But, on the other hand, you no longer need to know how to ride a horse.

That is really just an excuse to outsource responsibility to the end user. When I gift my mom a tablet for birthday it should not oblige her to take a class on how Android works.

Oh, and Google's OS is derived from Linux.

It can be derived from Amiga OS for all I care. It's the principle of the thing, not the roots of it.


Bad news today. Google just changed the Google App Engine to eliminate domain fronting - an unintended software quirk which allowed many apps to evade state-level internet censorship. The true context of this move will most likely go unexplained so I'll scoop it for you.

You see, for the last couple of weeks Russia's media censorship body, Roskomnadzor, has been engaged in an all-out war on the popular messaging app Telegram. Telegram's founder and owner, Pavel Durov, is an outspoken critic of Russian authorities and an internet freedom activist; his app is popular among Russian opposition due to being end-to-end encrypted. Roskomnadzor obtained a court order demanding from Telegram to give them the encryption keys so that Russian police and FSB could monitor traffic; Durov refused claiming that the nature of encryption is such that Telegram does not have the key. Initial attempts to block the app failed due to Telegram using domain fronting to get around restrictions. Eventually Roskomnadzor banned ALL traffic routed through Google and Amazon's servers and demanded a "legally meaningful response" from both of them. This is Google's response.

[Annoyed]

That is really just an excuse to outsource responsibility to the end user. When I gift my mom a tablet for birthday it should not oblige her to take a class on how Android works.

Since when is taking care of anything, be it a car, TV, dishwasher computer, or whatever not the responsibility of the owner of the device? Should General Motors be responsible if someone runs their car without oil in it , or something like that? Should Maytag be responsible if someone puts something stupid in the washer or dishwasher?

[Womble]

The short answer is yes if they haven't done everything within their power to stop the user from accidental misuse. Otherwise the fault is with the manufacturer for bad design.