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  1. #1
    Site Admin GateWorld's Avatar
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    Post Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    Visit the Episode GuideARROW - SEASON FOUR
    ELEVEN-FIFTY-NINE
    EPISODE NUMBER - 418
    Oliver and Diggle find themselves at odds when Oliver suspects that Andy is still working for Darhk. Laurel gets a job offer from a surprising source, and Meryln attempts to help the enemy escape from prison.

    VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >>
    Last edited by GateWorld; April 6th, 2016 at 08:50 PM.

  2. #2
    Major General
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    So watched tonights ep.. man was that a shocker..

    Spoiler:

    1) so darhk is now out of prison with a # of fellow inmates, and had malcomb steal back the idol.
    2) its confirmed Andy is a bad guy again.. Man was Oli right with diggle in that "you kept telling me not to have a blindspot for family, but you are now the one having it"..
    3) Why the heck did they just Leave the idol in their lair, KNOWING it has been breached many a time now? Why didn't they hide it elsewhere, or better yet destroy the frikken thing????
    4) NOOOOO Sarah.. So we at least now know who is in the grave..

  3. #3
    Laurel Lance LtColCarter's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    Wow...tonight's episode's ending was heart wrenching.

    Spoiler:
    I can't believe that Laurel is dead! She want not one who I thought would get killed off. I thought it was going to be Captain Lance.

  4. #4
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    This was traumatising... I mean I honestly think I need counselling to get over this...

    Spoiler:
    I saw a spoiler giving away who was going to die but even then it was so terrible. And just for her to look like she was ok and then to be ripped away again... Oliver's face... Diggle's guilt... Lance... Dear God the whole thing just destroyed me. I mean honestly I was about 30 more seconds away from wailing like Felicity when it cut to credits...

    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  5. #5
    Colonel Teddybrown's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    Ok, Im sad she died and all, but there was so much foreshadowing in the episode...

    Good episode though and Im glad Diggle made it through it, looks like a great end to the season sibling rivalry!

  6. #6
    Lieutenant Colonel Gen. Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    It has been known for weeks, unfortunately. Pictures were leaked in February that showed scenes from the next episode including Lance crying over the gravestone as well as the gravestone itself with her full name (Dinah Laurel Lance). And even if it had not been known, it was so obvious from the beginning from the sheer fact the she had more lines and more development throughout the episode than in the last couple months. And the kicker? "Maybe just one more time...". Yep. Dead.

    What complete and utter horse ****. They get rid of Green Arrow's always love interest from the comics. They continue to push the Olicity **** at every turn. They even managed to had Laurel give a pro-Olicity speech just before she dies. And even better? Apparently the producers did not have a clue as to who was going to be in the grave when they first introduced it in the first episode this season. They didn't want to do it when it came time to, but they had to fill a literal plot hole. And they do this to the character that has already lost a daughter twice (Lance with Sarah "dying" twice). What awful and elementary level writing.

    At this point the only thing that will save this season for me is to see Oliver and company go on a war path and kill anyone and anything on the way towards Dahrk. They can't kill Felicity now, but they can also at least make sure she and Oliver are done for good. That relationship created a toxic environment, and it led to the death of a canary (Get it?).

    Edit: We also won't find out what Laurel said to Oliver until season 5. Probably because, like the grave, they haven't thought of what it will be yet...

    Again, what ****. This used to be a great show until the producers thought it would be great to stick the nerdy awkward girl with the hot superhero just to appease the people that think thats what makes a great show, and the rest of it has suffered for it. Great job Guggenheim and Mericle, you killed Arrow.

  7. #7
    Colonel P-90_177's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gen. Chris View Post
    It has been known for weeks, unfortunately. Pictures were leaked in February that showed scenes from the next episode including Lance crying over the gravestone as well as the gravestone itself with her full name (Dinah Laurel Lance). And even if it had not been known, it was so obvious from the beginning from the sheer fact the she had more lines and more development throughout the episode than in the last couple months. And the kicker? "Maybe just one more time...". Yep. Dead.

    What complete and utter horse ****. They get rid of Green Arrow's always love interest from the comics. They continue to push the Olicity **** at every turn. They even managed to had Laurel give a pro-Olicity speech just before she dies. And even better? Apparently the producers did not have a clue as to who was going to be in the grave when they first introduced it in the first episode this season. They didn't want to do it when it came time to, but they had to fill a literal plot hole. And they do this to the character that has already lost a daughter twice (Lance with Sarah "dying" twice). What awful and elementary level writing.

    At this point the only thing that will save this season for me is to see Oliver and company go on a war path and kill anyone and anything on the way towards Dahrk. They can't kill Felicity now, but they can also at least make sure she and Oliver are done for good. That relationship created a toxic environment, and it led to the death of a canary (Get it?).

    Edit: We also won't find out what Laurel said to Oliver until season 5. Probably because, like the grave, they haven't thought of what it will be yet...

    Again, what ****. This used to be a great show until the producers thought it would be great to stick the nerdy awkward girl with the hot superhero just to appease the people that think thats what makes a great show, and the rest of it has suffered for it. Great job Guggenheim and Mericle, you killed Arrow.
    Agree to disagree there Chris. I'm feeling this season is even stronger than all except season 2.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  8. #8
    Lieutenant Colonel Gen. Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    In what way? Nothing has happened. Until recently the flashbacks have not mattered at all to the present day. The fighting and the way it is implemented have been ****; Oliver can singlehandedly kill Ra's and make Merlyn his ***** but a couple of cops are a problem? The stunts are terrible compared to what they used to be. The pairing of Olicity is awful, and they took a great character in Felicity and made her nearly unbearable...do you remember her literally walking out on Oliver because he made a decision regarding HIS son's safety without consulting her? Don't even get me started on the fact they completely hit the reset button on her paralysis, which is rather insulting and killed one of the few interesting twists this season. And then there is the fact that almost the whole team was sidelined this season in favor of more scenes with Olicity...We got more character development out of Diggle and the rest on FLASH episodes. Does that make sense to you?

    By stunt scenes, look at this fight scene out of the very first season, when Oliver went to Bludhaven to rescue Walter. Have you seen anything even remotely close to this since season 2?



    By all means, convince me that this season is better than season 1 and 3. The first half of season 4 was an improvement over the last half of season 3 but jesus did it go downhill fast.

  9. #9
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Agree to disagree there Chris. I'm feeling this season is even stronger than all except season 2.
    Probably on par with S1 IMO. Not as good as S2 but I like S4 better than S3. I felt like that season lacked direction. I don't have the hate for Felicity this season that some people do. As for the episode I wish it had been someone, mostly for the reason I liked Black Canary. I would much have seen Capt. Lance or Diggle die but that is more for the reason I am not a big fan of their characters.
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  10. #10
    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    So... if that's the end of Laurel then doesn't it seem like her entire arc of becoming the Black Canary was pointless? Narratively what did she accomplish? Even the reason for her becoming the Black Canary is moot now.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

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  11. #11
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    Probably on par with S1 IMO. Not as good as S2 but I like S4 better than S3. I felt like that season lacked direction. I don't have the hate for Felicity this season that some people do. As for the episode I wish it had been someone, mostly for the reason I liked Black Canary. I would much have seen Capt. Lance or Diggle die but that is more for the reason I am not a big fan of their characters.
    Season 1 had the interesting story about the Undertaking and how it all related back to why Oliver and his dad were targeted to be killed. Genesis? Nothing on it since they showed the corn in episode...9? At the very least Dahrk is an interesting villain played by a great actor but I feel like he has been underutilized.

    It would have made more sense to kill Diggle because of the sheer fact he trusted Andy. THAT would have been an interesting twist.

    But nope, gotta kill Black Canary, because reasons...?

    The Olicity shippers are celebrating this because they see her as the enemy. I mean we are talking grade-A nutjobs here who sent Cassidy as well as Amell's wife death threats because they are unable to grasp the difference between TV and reality. And these are the idiots that the producers listened to when they thought this is what the fans wanted. And the ratings are showing it. Great job, producers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    So... if that's the end of Laurel then doesn't it seem like her entire arc of becoming the Black Canary was pointless?
    Basically. She was Black Canary for 1.5 seasons.

  12. #12
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    Hmm wasn't expecting that, I tend to avoid spoilers, even avoiding comic canon where I can, but given everything explained above with regard to having to fill a virtual plot hole and in relation to hte comics, it does seem somewhat strange they'd choose her.

    But hey at least it wasn't left on a cliffhanger with the crash team entering the room....

  13. #13
    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    So at the end of the day, after all the work she does, Laurel still never becomes anything but another victim. She doesn't die a heroes' death, she was executed as an example to hurt Lance and everyone else. It feels like doing Sarah all over again.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  14. #14
    Lieutenant Colonel Gen. Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    So at the end of the day, after all the work she does, Laurel still never becomes anything but another victim. She doesn't die a heroes' death, she was executed as an example to hurt Lance and everyone else. It feels like doing Sarah all over again.
    Yep. And it wasn't even unexpected like Sarah dying in the first episode of season 3. THAT was shocking. THAT was surprising. THAT was an amazing moment that left me tense and breathless. That was truly great TV.

    This? If I didn't know about the spoilers I would have figured it out soon enough just from the amount of development Canary AND Laurel got (as two separate people).

  15. #15
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    So at the end of the day, after all the work she does, Laurel still never becomes anything but another victim. She doesn't die a heroes' death, she was executed as an example to hurt Lance and everyone else. It feels like doing Sarah all over again.
    Sometimes death is senseless though... I'm fine with that.

    And to be honest I think they've probably got rid of the weakest character but with the largest impact, which is a double bonus. Laurel's story has never been all that riveting, and unlike Sara she's never been completely convincing as the Canary.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

  16. #16
    Lieutenant Colonel Gen. Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    Quote Originally Posted by P-90_177 View Post
    Sometimes death is senseless though... I'm fine with that.
    They already had a senseless death this season, though. Waller went out pathetically because DC thinks people will confuse her with the iteration that will be seen in Suicide Squad. For people who are important not only in the DC comics but in the shows they are in, having both Waller and Canary go out with a whimper is a sad state of affairs. They needed to get rid of Waller for the movie...fine, but do it in a meaningful way so it isn't cheap. But the fact that they killed Laurel to fill a literal plot hole is pathetic.

    This season simply has terrible writing. There is no evidence to suggest otherwise.

  17. #17
    Major Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    Exactly, they've done this before already. And presumably we're going to do an exact repeat of Lance's grieving father arc that they've already done twice at this point.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  18. #18
    Lieutenant Colonel Gen. Chris's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    Exactly, they've done this before already. And presumably we're going to do an exact repeat of Lance's grieving father arc that they've already done twice at this point.
    Precisely! There has been so few episodes where Lance has NOT been grieving a dead daughter. And now that he had them both back for a handful of episodes the older one is snatched away by the plot hole.

    Also it looks like Blackthorne (Lance) is pissed about this decision. It troubles me that none of the stars think that they can convince the writers and producers that some of the decisions they are making are terrible. I understand that actors like Amell are comfortable now that they finally have their big break but they are in relative positions that their voices can/should be considered.

  19. #19
    Colonel mr_kennedy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    So did Katie Cassidy leave ARROW or are they gonna push the reset button next season?
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  20. #20
    The Monitor jelgate's Avatar
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    Default Re: Eleven-Fifty-Nine (418)

    She didn't chose to leave. The writers do decided to kill her off and won't be coming back
    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
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