Are the Ancients Stupid?

[Bhousden]

Hold it right there, mister (unless you're a miss in which case my apologies)! His argument is as valid as yours is. Considering the fictional nature of this discussion, it will be hard to proof who's right and who's wrong.

His argument is invalid bc he's claiming that because was already a hybrid the retrovirus worked differently on him than a "true" wraith, but he was a full wraith when Beckett gave him the retrovirus that made him a hybrid. It was a continuation of work on that retrovirus that allowed Michael to perfect it. Given enough time Beckett could possibly have perfected it with or without Michael. Let's not forget it Beckett's help that allowed Michael to perfect it.

[Falcon Horus]

See Killman's reply.

And thanks for further explaining.

[taladyvet]

Jumping in very late to this interesting topic, and speaking not as a scientist or anyone remotely knowledgeable about gene therapy, but as someone who tends to look at things from the point of a Devil's Advocate:

I always found it almost self-defeating for the Wraith to storm through Gates or swoop in on human groups and wipe out every single human of adult/breeding age. Considering how quickly the Wraith were reproducing, wouldn't they ultimately hunt their food into extinction? Assuming Wraith are not morally worried about looking at their food source as, well, food, and not equals, wouldn't they have found it 'easier' to gather and breed their own 'breeding farms' of food than to expend a lot of energy to hunt it down?

{I know this may start a whole firestorm of replies, but I tried looking at it from the point of the Wraith. While they may have insect-like origins, their subsequent intelligence would also look at the whole thing as a phenomenal waste of resources. We domesticated animals for food; why wouldn't the Wraith?<and I've been watching way too much Supernatural, so forgive me if I'm looking at my species as Meatsuits...

[Bhousden]

I always found it almost self-defeating for the Wraith to storm through Gates or swoop in on human groups and wipe out every single human of adult/breeding age. Considering how quickly the Wraith were reproducing, wouldn't they ultimately hunt their food into extinction? Assuming Wraith are not morally worried about looking at their food source as, well, food, and not equals, wouldn't they have found it 'easier' to gather and breed their own 'breeding farms' of food than to expend a lot of energy to hunt it down?

This is why they hibernaye every couple hundred years, and why they were hibernating when the Atlantis expedition encountered them.

[blueray]

Some of the waith (if not most of them) seemed to enjoy the hunt as well as getting their food. If they wanted to they would just feed and leave the dead humans on the planet, instead they always capture them and use torture or suspense before they fed them.

[garhkal]

One thing i never understood in the latter seasons was how they seemed to switch from those big wraith guns where you need to have them OVER the shoulder (or under it) to use it effectively, then switched from mid S3 on to those stun rifles that reminded me of the planet where SG1 was trapped and Teal'c was blinded... AND added those pistols...

[Laxian of Earth]

Hey,

so I'll jump in here

Short answer: Yes, they are!

Long answer:

Yes, but not because they are actually retarded. No, Sir, the ancients are just like the Asgard in a way!

Their bodies have not deteriorated because they didn't try to turn themselves immortal through cloning, but their minds are kind of similar to the Asgard!

They can't stomach a real fight and they can't do small unit tactics etc.

I mean look at them:

They have superior technology (probably even something like a Asgard beaming tech because otherwise the Wraith wouldn't have a ready made counter that they just have to switch on on their ships!), they even made replicators (again, how creative!) to fight for them, but they can't handle war (mentally!)...they'd lose any fight ground side (unless all their warriors have personal shields - and maybe even then, we haven't seen any heavy weapons like say an RPG (well, a high tech version) of it or even rifles being used by the ancients! The Wraith surely have encountered shields, I mean they managed to turn off the Replicator's attack code for ****'s sake!)

Also their ships despite being well armed by our standards (at least before the Asgard beam weapons!) aren't really warships for the most part (the Aurora-Class might be the only real warship and compared to what the ancients are capable off - like say those beam weapon satellites and even that gun on top of that power source Rodney blew up a solar system with - they are poorly armed and their shields are quite weak (without a ZPM, which is not part of the normal equipment!) and they don't have any fighters to speak off! The Jumpers aren't fighters!)...the Jumpers are armed transports with major weaknesses (the windshield for example and the quickly depleting supply of drones! They have no other weapons!) and no shield (unless you sacrifice the cloak - and even that will not last long...Jumpers more or less are civilian vehicles with a rocket-launcher strapped to them )

Over all they just don't think like warriors and that's what stops them from conducting a war like humans or the wraith (hell, even the Asgard or Goa'uld) would!#

Give us (earth humans) their weapons and tech (and the capability to make it - especially those ZPMs...note: I'd like to know why they didn't just install an Asgard generator on Atlantis (or several...they don't use most of the space anyway!)) and we would wipe the Wraith out in a few months (except for some that go into hiding, but their ships etc. would be destroyed soon!)

=> You focused on the cloning? (damned...should remember to read opening posts before commenting)

Well, evolved beings like the ancients wouldn't want someone to suffer (and yes every clone is basically a human being after all!) at the Wraith's hands, even a a clone!

Also: The Wraith made humans with some of their DNA (Teyla! I'd really like to know if they wanted to make a "tastier" meal!)...so it's not far fetched that they could clone humans, but maybe it just doesn't work that way (without having that human live a normal life)? I don't know

In the end they should IMHO gone for biological warfare (a biogenetic plague that could wipe out the Wraith!), but they didn't (which brings us back to: They don't think like warriors...hell, they could have used a virus like the one from SG-1 (that deactivated gates...hell, maybe they could have just deactivated the gates by via command-interface or something...no virus needed, they built the things after all!) and then they could have used the Ataro-Device without blowing up gates left and right!)

greetings LAX
ps: Other than that? The Ancients are pretty smart, but they reached the end of their existence (so it was ascension or dying out...they chose to mingle with primitive humans (well the ones that didn't ascend!) and leave all their stuff (even the dangerous pieces!) as their legacy!)...that's the other thing, they are barely hanging on, so fighting a war isn't in their interest!

[garhkal]

The Jumpers aren't fighters!)...the Jumpers are armed transports with major weaknesses (the windshield for example and the quickly depleting supply of drones! They have no other weapons!) and no shield (unless you sacrifice the cloak - and even that will not last long...Jumpers more or less are civilian vehicles with a rocket-launcher strapped to them )

One thing i never saw answered. HOW once a jumper uses its "load of drones" does it get replenished..??

ALSO do they carry just 6 (3 a side) or 12 (6 a side)??

[Laxian of Earth]

Not sure and not sure

Really, we don't know the definitive answer to EITHER question (at least as far as I know)

greetings LAX