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Weakness in Wraith tech

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    #16
    Do you think so? McKay states on several occasions that the replicates probably created the nanovirus (Ep: Progeny comes to mind but he also says it again when Todd tells them that the replicators have started to annihilate human worlds). I never saw them as being one in the same, in terms of the nanovirus being the nanites that eventually interlocked to form the Asurans. I don't know why the ancients would direct the nanites to kill humans - seems pretty dark for them..?

    Correct, the immune system recognises antigens (some of which are proteins and enzymes) and in doing so can discriminate self from non-self. It does recognises novel pathogens all the time though, otherwise it wouldn't be very effective. I do get what your saying though - I've been thinking about them in terms of what we know but obviously the Ancients could create one that wouldn't illicit an immune response. Your microbiome idea is very interesting. Delivering it to them inside of a seemingly harmless bacterium? How do you imagine it would affect their systems? Just like the "cancer" it caused of Todd's ship?

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      #17
      no shields

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        #18
        Has anyone here read Legacy? It introduces a new contender for the big Wraith technology weakness. Forget which book it was in.
        I suspect the writers didn't have anything particular in mind as a weakness when they wrote this episode.

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          #19
          I agree that they didn't have an idea - otherwise they might have brought it up again, which they didn't (it was destroyed and that was it)

          As for true weaknesses:

          - their organic hulls for their ships (they can endure only short hyperspace jumps, so the problem isn't necessarily the speed (in order to get to another galaxy) but the number of jumps required and replenishing the ships powersource along the way...not to mention that even Goa'uld ships can do longer and faster jumps and thus would have a huge advantage in space warfare, especially if they go for overwhelming numbers in ambushes (to compensate for their weaker shields compared to Asgard-Shields or Ancient ones...note: I don't think the Wraith can one-shot Ha'taks, hell the real flagships of the systemlords (like the one Apophis inherited from Sokar!) or Anubis's Flagship could probably endure a slugging match for a while, as they generate more power than a 304 without a ZPM and thus have more power for the shields!))

          - the need to feed (the Pegasus Replicators were kind of (yes, moraly what they did was of course wrong!) right to kill off the human population of Pegasus)

          - viruses can harm their ships (we've seen that on the show, when Todd tried the unfinished gene-therapy on his people!)

          - no shields (so most ship weapons damage the hive directly instead of having to batter down the shields first and only then having a chance to attack the hull)

          - unwieldy and slow ships (in real space), those Hives are lumbering giants that can be outmaneuvered by anything smaller (hell even an Asgard O'Neill-Class would fly circles around a Hive while pounding it to pieces! Hell, even one of those Ori-Toilet-Bowl ships could run circles around Hives and those ships are pretty large, too!)...cruisers aren't much better and they are weakly armed compared to a Hive!

          - Only energy-weapons for ground combat (thus replicators worked well against them and something like a Kul-Warrior-Armor would dominate the Wraith...hell, those Ancient Personal Shields alone would negate their numbers...)

          The Ancients only lost because frankly they were too peaceful for their own good (I recently read a fanfiction (XSGCOM - it's a crossover of X-COM and Stargate) where humanity's tendencies for conflict and our talent and proclivity for war only came about the because the Ancients kind of engineered us as a weapon of revenge (a "bioweapon")) and didn't know anything about combat tactics, using resources best you can etc...frankly the Ancients are worse soldiers than the Asgard and the Asgard have an excuse:

          Their frail bodies because of hundreds of thousands of years of cloning and genetic manipulation! Without those the Asgard would be better soldiers than the Ancients ever were!

          greetings LAX

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            #20
            Originally posted by Laxian of Earth View Post
            I agree that they didn't have an idea - otherwise they might have brought it up again, which they didn't (it was destroyed and that was it)
            Seems to me that the whole reprogramming aspect is the main weakness. Although i already posted that in this thread.

            I mean, the Ancients could basically infect all humans with a simple dormant virus that does them no harm. Then, any time they connect to a ship to hibernate, or any time a wraith feeds on then and then hibernates, they infect the ship. Especially if it were made a fairly slow virus that causes only minor changes until it receives a certain signal, it would be devastating to the wraith.

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              #21
              The organic nature of Wraith ships are also a strength that probably won them the war. Yes, they're inferior in battle to non-organic ships that have shields and persistent hyperspace engines. At the same time, though, they're able to be grown on any planet at any time so long as there is enough energy available to feed them to "maturity." This means that it's impossible to damage their production capabilities to any real degree, allowing the Wraith to just kept pumping out ship after ship until they have overwhelming numbers. Ancient production capabilities, on the other hand, are very much vulnerable and a successful attack against an Ancient shipyard not only means they'd lose valuable in-production ships that they spent months working on, it also means the loss of the site itself, which would require time and energy to rebuild elsewhere.

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                #22
                Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
                The organic nature of Wraith ships are also a strength that probably won them the war.
                The Ancient's advanced nature was both their greatest strength and greatest weakness. So i can see the poetic irony in the Wraith's greatest strength being their greatest weakness too.

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                  #23
                  Well, the Wraith are probably not that vulnerable to destruction of their supply lines, that's true (they basically can set up shop everywhere and carry all the necessary "tools" with them, too

                  Hm...I wounder:

                  Why didn't the ancients use the Dakara weapon (either take the old one to Pegasus or dial the Pegasus gates from the Milkyway or build a damned new one if you have to!) against them? (are they that close to humans, so that you'd wipe those out as well and if so: Why not at least wipe out their ships?)

                  Hell, shut down the gates for a few years (humans did it with the "Avenger"-Virus, so why can't the gate builders? Hell, for all we know they could do this at the push of a button, without any virus!) and use the Attero-Device (the one that locks hyperspace for hyperdrives operating on certain frequencies and also blows up gates unfortunately - which you avoid by shutting the gate system down!) and then pick off the vulnerable Wraith (use drones (like the imperial probe droids in Star Wars!) to find them, move in and kill them!)...the Ancients really are bad at strategical planning and thinking...I'd rather face the Wraith freaking ALONE than with an Ancient by my side because I would fear that his stupidity sabotages me!

                  greetings LAX

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                    #24
                    Because the Lanteans never set up shop in Pegasus to continue their race. The Ancients' sole goal was to ascend, and anyone who achieved it was barred from helping others. Basically, Ascension was the ancient's biggest brain drain. So there was no incentive for the Ancients to win, just more incentive for them to ascend faster. Considering some of the Ancient's experiments in Pegasus, they also became more desperate with that.

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                      #25
                      I'd really like to know the reason for that, frankly stupid, rule! Hell, if you know how to ascend and have done so without help then who are they to dictate rules (also: What do ascended people do all day? They don't have to eat, they can't help "lower" races, so isn't ascenscion basically hell? (Just like that Q who wanted to die in Star Trek!) You are a spirit without much of a body and you can't do anything!) Hell, their rules don't seem to be absolute! The Ori, also ascended beings (!), freaking did as they pleased and nobody was enforcing the rules on them! The Ancients only protected a few galaxies (Milkyway and Pegasus and maybe some others) against them! Not to mention that you can descend again (and keep hold of a few pieces of knowledge (chief among them: How to ascend, so you could basically descend, tinker with stuff and if you start getting old or if someone kills you? Well: You ascend and then descend again and continue where you've left off!))

                      Hm...if that was their only goal, then why not settle on a hard to access planet, stop technological development (so no project Arcturus for example!), cease contact with the rest of the universe and concentrate on ascending? I don't think every ancient wanted to ascend (I bet many knew that it was basically hell!), Janus for example surely didn't (otherwise he wouldn't have tinkered with all kinds of stuff, like the Time-Jumper, the Atero-Device etc.)

                      So no, I disagree that ascenscion was their only goal at that point (if it had been then they could have left at start of the Wraith-War! Recall all ships, launch Atlantis (with the cover off dozens, if not more, weapon satellites!) and leave Pegasus for good!)!

                      greetings LAX

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by Laxian of Earth View Post

                        Hm...I wounder:


                        Why didn't the ancients use the Dakara weapon (either take the old one to Pegasus or dial the Pegasus gates from the Milkyway or build a damned new one if you have to!) against them? (are they that close to humans, so that you'd wipe those out as well and if so: Why not at least wipe out their ships?)
                        I wonder if the Atlantis Ancients even knew about the device. It was developed by dying Ancients to recreate life destroyed by the plague. That the whole city of Atlantis managed to escape infection suggests that the decision to move the city was done somewhat early on, whereas the decision to recreate life suggests a dying breath type action to ensure their legacy after it became evident that their fate was sealed.

                        Sure, there could have been communication between the Ancients in both galaxies, but it also makes sense that as he plague spread the remnants of their civilization would fracture into groups devoted to their own last ditch efforts (Dakara, time travel, ascension, etc.) and not necessarily consider it important to keep each other abreast of what they were doing. The Ancients who established them in Pegasus, meanwhile, seemed disinclined to go back to the Milky Way at any point after to scavenge for information or technology given that they had no idea what to expect when they finally decided they had to return to Earth to escape the Wraith (they thought they would find more remains of their former civilization). This makes sense because there would be a fear that he plague would somehow have remained in some form (which it did in Ayiana) and until the end of the Wraith war there was no reason to take that risk.

                        It's also quite possible that Atlantis broke off all contact with the remaining Milky Way Ancients because they didn't want them to know where they went out of concern that some might try to follow them.

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                          #27
                          I was thinking more along the line of some device that could jam Wraith's telepathic abilities. Imagine how bad that would cripple them, they would literally be unable to use any of their tech, communicate or even pilot their ships.
                          Spoiler:
                          I don’t want to be human. I want to see gamma rays, I want to hear X-rays, and I want to smell dark matter. Do you see the absurdity of what I am? I can’t even express these things properly, because I have to—I have to conceptualize complex ideas in this stupid, limiting spoken language, but I know I want to reach out with something other than these prehensile paws, and feel the solar wind of a supernova flowing over me. I’m a machine, and I can know much more.

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                            #28
                            I always assumed it was referring to the cloning facility. They said that was why they had a vast numerical superiority over the Ancients. And that having superior numbers was the only reason the Wraith could defeat the Ancients.
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