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  1. #1

    Default Weakness in Wraith tech

    Apologies if this has been discussed before (my searches for it haven't shown anything) but does anyone know/ have any ideas about what the weakness in Wraith technology (Aurora) is?

  2. #2
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Quote Originally Posted by jhorgan9 View Post
    Apologies if this has been discussed before (my searches for it haven't shown anything) but does anyone know/ have any ideas about what the weakness in Wraith technology (Aurora) is?
    Considering that there's an episode where a virus infect a hiveship and it ultimately destroys itself, i'd say that's a good candidate

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    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Poss their need for power?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Possibly - I mean McKay did say in enemy at the gate that insufficient power generation is the Achilles heel of Wraith technology. That seems like something the Ancients would have figured out pretty quickly though and I don't see how it would have impacted the outcome of the war. On the Aurora, it was made to seem that the information they were carrying would be able to turn the war in the favour very quickly - like if they'd figure out how to hack Wraith tech or something.

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    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Poss their need for power?
    Not that it's impossible, but it sounded like the weakness would be crucial for the war effort, and i just dont see how lack of power would do that. The ancients themselves suffered from it (though i believe the Wraith were mostly responsible for that, probably because they destroyed ZPM factories first) so it seems weird that sharing a weakness would be crucial.

    Thinking about it, maybe it led the ancients to realize that their 3 ZPMs were stolen, not just destroyed and that the source of the Wraith's strength was using their ZPMs. it's possible that they would've found a way to track and destroy these ZPM's and cripple the Wraith war effort.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Yes, on the Aurora the crew made it seem that the "weakness" could turn the war in their favour very quickly. I always imagined it to be something like a way to hack Wraith technology and shut it off at will. In Enemy at the Gates, McKay states the insufficient power generation is the Achilles hell of Wraith tech so I would think the Ancients of all people would be aware of that. I just don't see how they could exploit that for their own benefit

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    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Quote Originally Posted by jhorgan9 View Post
    I always imagined it to be something like a way to hack Wraith technology and shut it off at will.
    That's not really a weakness in technology now, is it?

    I would expect the Ancient to introduce a dormant virus in the Wraith. Once the wraith enters hibernation it spreads the virus throughout the ship. Then, this virus attacks the ship's growth code and causes essentially cancer to the ship. A bit like in that episode, except intentional.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Yeah it is... a defect in the coding of their operating systems that the Ancients could exploit to remotely active/ deactivate Wraith tech.

    How is a virus that affects the Wraith a weakness in Wraith Technology...? Sure it has the potential to have an effect on their tech due to its organic nature but that's an indirect effect. First, a genetic analysis would reveal what viruses (if any) the Wraith are susceptible to - something the Ancients of all races would have know how to exploit and they did go down the biomolecular path with the when creating the Asuran nanites. Second, Todd only became infected with/ was affect by the virus because he had received a gene therapy that stripped him of some/ most of his natural healing abilities. Finally, what you're suggesting wouldn't have turned the war in their favour. A virus that only propagates while the Wraith are hibernating - why would would the entire race be hibernating during a galactic war with the Ancients?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Also, perhaps it was to do with the ASurans. Perhaps the Aurora crew found key parts of the Wraith shutdown code, and they figured out a way to override it 'reactivating' the Asurans..

  10. #10

    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Quote Originally Posted by garhkal View Post
    Also, perhaps it was to do with the ASurans. Perhaps the Aurora crew found key parts of the Wraith shutdown code, and they figured out a way to override it 'reactivating' the Asurans..
    The Asuran attack directive was shutoff by the Wraith after the Ancients had returned to Earth. The wraith scientist that held Rodney and the team captive in Reunion (S4E3) states this.

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    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Quote Originally Posted by jhorgan9 View Post
    How is a virus that affects the Wraith a weakness in Wraith Technology...?
    The strength of the wraith (able to actively mold their ships) is also their greatest weakness. In this case, the specific weakness would be the link between the one in hibernation and the ship.

    Secondly, the wraith used hibernation also during regular travel, not just in between these massive cycles as we saw.

    Lastly, that's why the virus would be dormant: so the wraith immune system does not see it as a threat and destroy it.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhorgan9 View Post
    The Asuran attack directive was shutoff by the Wraith after the Ancients had returned to Earth. The wraith scientist that held Rodney and the team captive in Reunion (S4E3) states this.
    They likely tried several times before that though.

  12. #12

    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    The virus would have to actively replicate and infect the Wraith before becoming dormant and, given that their immunity is comprised of components from both the invertebrate and mammalian immune system, they would be well equipped to handle such an infection. It's also likely that the Wraith themselves would become aware of the infection at this point and take steps to prevent it from spreading.

    In Reunion, the Wraith scientist tells Rodney that the replicators starting attacking the Wraith after the Ancients had been defeated.

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    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Quote Originally Posted by jhorgan9 View Post
    The virus would have to actively replicate and infect the Wraith before becoming dormant
    It can be delivered via humans. Considering the initial nanite virus that killed humans, it's very possible that the Ancients were exploring this avenue of weaponry. Infecting the human population with said virus (or heck, nanites) would allow the Ancients to backdoor to the Wraith's ships and destroy them from within. So a bit like the Hoffan drug, but it actually attacks the ships, not the wraith itself.

    I'm also not sure why the virus would have to actively replicate anywhere near a wraith. I would expect it to be transferred to the wraith and the wraith acts simply as a carrier. I would also expect that part of the virus design would borrow from Wraith pathogens or something similar to mask itself, while being inactive so as to not alert the wraith.

    Quote Originally Posted by jhorgan9 View Post
    In Reunion, the Wraith scientist tells Rodney that the replicators starting attacking the Wraith after the Ancients had been defeated.
    The Asurans were used in nanite form first, to kill Wraith. It's only later that they became human.

    Considering the Ancients discovered a weakness in their technology, and the big difference between Ancients and Wraith is their organic part, i think it's far likelier that the weakness lies in the organic nature of the wraith than in a few lines of code on their firewalls. I'm not even sure how such electronic warfare would be used by the Ancients since the wraith communicate via telepathy primarily.

  14. #14

    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    It can be delivered via humans. Considering the initial nanite virus that killed humans, it's very possible that the Ancients were exploring this avenue of weaponry. Infecting the human population with said virus (or heck, nanites) would allow the Ancients to backdoor to the Wraith's ships and destroy them from within. So a bit like the Hoffan drug, but it actually attacks the ships, not the wraith itself.

    I'm also not sure why the virus would have to actively replicate anywhere near a wraith. I would expect it to be transferred to the wraith and the wraith acts simply as a carrier. I would also expect that part of the virus design would borrow from Wraith pathogens or something similar to mask itself, while being inactive so as to not alert the wraith.


    The Asurans were used in nanite form first, to kill Wraith. It's only later that they became human.

    Considering the Ancients discovered a weakness in their technology, and the big difference between Ancients and Wraith is their organic part, i think it's far likelier that the weakness lies in the organic nature of the wraith than in a few lines of code on their firewalls. I'm not even sure how such electronic warfare would be used by the Ancients since the wraith communicate via telepathy primarily.
    During the series it was implied several times that it was the Asurans that created the nano virus.

    Biological viruses need to get inside cells to survive and to do that they need to be active. They also need to replicate to spread. Even if the virus only replicated in humans and all of it was transferred to Wraith during the feeding process, the Wraith immune system would instantly recognise and respond to it - The higher the initial viral load, the more profound the immune response.

    There's no evidence to suggest the Asuran nanites were ever used against the Wraith. They were designed to do obviously but Niam told Elizabeth that they evolved rapidly and were never the weapon the Ancients sought to create. That combined with the fact that the Wraith tells Rodney that "these things" showed up after the Ancients had lost the war suggests that their first ever encounter with the Asuras was after the Ancients had returned to Earth.

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    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Quote Originally Posted by jhorgan9 View Post
    During the series it was implied several times that it was the Asurans that created the nano virus.
    No, the virus evolved into the Asurans.



    Quote Originally Posted by jhorgan9 View Post
    the Wraith immune system would instantly recognise and respond to it
    How would it recognize something it has never seen before, or for that matter how would it consider a virus a threat if the virus is made to be accepted as wraith in origin? Our immune system works by identification enzymes that tell our immune system what is part of us and what is not. We also carry a small ecology with us of beneficial bacteria on our skin and in our gut. All that's needed is a disguised virus that enters the wraith. it does not need to replicate or attack the wraith cells, and so would not alarm the immune system.

    I would also expect the Ancients -who are supposed to be millions of years ahead of us- to invent something better than what we can come up with. It needs something that can piggyback the wraith into their starship's internal systems. If something like the Retrovirus can get into the ship's systems and wreck havoc, then the ancients can invent something similar. I'm not even sure if a virus is the best way to go (i said virus because of the retrovirus).

  16. #16

    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Do you think so? McKay states on several occasions that the replicates probably created the nanovirus (Ep: Progeny comes to mind but he also says it again when Todd tells them that the replicators have started to annihilate human worlds). I never saw them as being one in the same, in terms of the nanovirus being the nanites that eventually interlocked to form the Asurans. I don't know why the ancients would direct the nanites to kill humans - seems pretty dark for them..?

    Correct, the immune system recognises antigens (some of which are proteins and enzymes) and in doing so can discriminate self from non-self. It does recognises novel pathogens all the time though, otherwise it wouldn't be very effective. I do get what your saying though - I've been thinking about them in terms of what we know but obviously the Ancients could create one that wouldn't illicit an immune response. Your microbiome idea is very interesting. Delivering it to them inside of a seemingly harmless bacterium? How do you imagine it would affect their systems? Just like the "cancer" it caused of Todd's ship?

  17. #17
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    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    no shields

  18. #18
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    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Has anyone here read Legacy? It introduces a new contender for the big Wraith technology weakness. Forget which book it was in.
    I suspect the writers didn't have anything particular in mind as a weakness when they wrote this episode.

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    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    I agree that they didn't have an idea - otherwise they might have brought it up again, which they didn't (it was destroyed and that was it)

    As for true weaknesses:

    - their organic hulls for their ships (they can endure only short hyperspace jumps, so the problem isn't necessarily the speed (in order to get to another galaxy) but the number of jumps required and replenishing the ships powersource along the way...not to mention that even Goa'uld ships can do longer and faster jumps and thus would have a huge advantage in space warfare, especially if they go for overwhelming numbers in ambushes (to compensate for their weaker shields compared to Asgard-Shields or Ancient ones...note: I don't think the Wraith can one-shot Ha'taks, hell the real flagships of the systemlords (like the one Apophis inherited from Sokar!) or Anubis's Flagship could probably endure a slugging match for a while, as they generate more power than a 304 without a ZPM and thus have more power for the shields!))

    - the need to feed (the Pegasus Replicators were kind of (yes, moraly what they did was of course wrong!) right to kill off the human population of Pegasus)

    - viruses can harm their ships (we've seen that on the show, when Todd tried the unfinished gene-therapy on his people!)

    - no shields (so most ship weapons damage the hive directly instead of having to batter down the shields first and only then having a chance to attack the hull)

    - unwieldy and slow ships (in real space), those Hives are lumbering giants that can be outmaneuvered by anything smaller (hell even an Asgard O'Neill-Class would fly circles around a Hive while pounding it to pieces! Hell, even one of those Ori-Toilet-Bowl ships could run circles around Hives and those ships are pretty large, too!)...cruisers aren't much better and they are weakly armed compared to a Hive!

    - Only energy-weapons for ground combat (thus replicators worked well against them and something like a Kul-Warrior-Armor would dominate the Wraith...hell, those Ancient Personal Shields alone would negate their numbers...)

    The Ancients only lost because frankly they were too peaceful for their own good (I recently read a fanfiction (XSGCOM - it's a crossover of X-COM and Stargate) where humanity's tendencies for conflict and our talent and proclivity for war only came about the because the Ancients kind of engineered us as a weapon of revenge (a "bioweapon")) and didn't know anything about combat tactics, using resources best you can etc...frankly the Ancients are worse soldiers than the Asgard and the Asgard have an excuse:

    Their frail bodies because of hundreds of thousands of years of cloning and genetic manipulation! Without those the Asgard would be better soldiers than the Ancients ever were!

    greetings LAX

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    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Weakness in Wraith tech

    Quote Originally Posted by Laxian of Earth View Post
    I agree that they didn't have an idea - otherwise they might have brought it up again, which they didn't (it was destroyed and that was it)
    Seems to me that the whole reprogramming aspect is the main weakness. Although i already posted that in this thread.

    I mean, the Ancients could basically infect all humans with a simple dormant virus that does them no harm. Then, any time they connect to a ship to hibernate, or any time a wraith feeds on then and then hibernates, they infect the ship. Especially if it were made a fairly slow virus that causes only minor changes until it receives a certain signal, it would be devastating to the wraith.

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