Results 1 to 14 of 14

Thread: Birth (508)

  1. #1
    Site Admin GateWorld's Avatar
    Member Since
    Apr 2004
    Posts
    3,996

    Post Birth (508)

    Visit the Episode GuideONCE UPON A TIME - SEASON FIVE
    BIRTH
    EPISODE NUMBER - 508
    Tensions in Camelot come to a head when Merlin, now under Arthur's control, delivers an ultimatum to Emma. Refusing to give in, Emma and our heroes face off against Arthur, Merlin and Zelena in an epic battle of magic and will. Back in Storybrooke, Zelena's pregnancy mysteriously accelerates and Hook goes to new and desperate lengths to get answers from the Dark Swan. (ABC)

    VISIT THE EPISODE GUIDE >>
    Last edited by GateWorld; November 12th, 2015 at 10:43 PM.

  2. #2
    Captain Jeffer's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2005
    Location
    The Ancient Napkin Despenser Planet
    Posts
    1,007

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    Awesome episode but was pretty disappointed with the second hour
    Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together

  3. #3
    Captain tomstone's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,471

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffer View Post
    Awesome episode but was pretty disappointed with the second hour
    Same here, this one was awesome. I really did not see that twist coming and they actually made it pretty believable so far. Looks like Killian is a Dark one from the start. Notice how Emma was dressed in white till she crossed the line and he came out in a big black robe.

    I wonder what Emma did to Regina and the others, the sword is supposed to cut through everything, so did she cut through time?
    Fuzzy Wuzzy wasnt old,
    Fuzzy Wuzzy gotten bald
    There was Fuzzy no more Wuzzy

  4. #4
    Lieutenant Colonel Platschu's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jan 2005
    Location
    King's Lynn, UK
    Posts
    4,675

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    It was such a surprisingly good episode. Plot twists, continuation of the main story, good acting. That is the OUAT what we like.
    "I was hoping for another day. Looks like we just got a whole lot more than that. Let's not waste it."

    "Never underestimate your audience. They're generally sensitive, intelligent people who respond positively to quality entertainment."

    "Individual science fiction stories may seem as trivial as ever to the blinder critics and philosophers of today, but the core of science fiction, its essence, has become crucial to our salvation, if we are to be saved at all."


    http://picasaweb.google.com/103478402021017098633

  5. #5
    Major General
    Member Since
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    13,249

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    Can't wait to see what Hook does now, he knows he is also a dark one!

  6. #6
    Neelix Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,709

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    This show has got to have the most twisted sense of morality I've ever seen.

    Killing innocent men in from of their wives = "All sins can be forgiven if someone loves you!"

    Killing an evil murdering rapist = "This isn't the way! That's cold blooded murder!"

    Did Regina actually just say "Nobody harms my sister except me" as if they had some some sort of quaint sibling rivalry? Her victims should have a hell of a lot more right to decide Zelena's fate that Regina does.

    Emma's plan is probably the appropriate course of action to take with Zelena even if it didn't have the added benefit of destroying dark magic.

    The show has also got some pretty arbitrary rules about what does and does not cause people to become evil. I'm honestly rather disappointed in how the backstory of Emma's corruption went. It didn't seem to follow any real logical progression.

    EDIT: Then again I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. The show has always been like this.

    Actually, I'm not even sure I understand the logic of why Hook became the second Dark One. I'll let slide why tethering him to Excalibur makes him immortal in the first place, but wouldn't he have to commit another murder to become consumed by darkness?
    Last edited by Infinite-Possibilities; November 17th, 2015 at 12:44 AM.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  7. #7
    Captain Jeffer's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2005
    Location
    The Ancient Napkin Despenser Planet
    Posts
    1,007

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post

    The show has also got some pretty arbitrary rules about what does and does not cause people to become evil. I'm honestly rather disappointed in how the backstory of Emma's corruption went. It didn't seem to follow any real logical progression.
    I viewed it as her final act before becoming dark was completely and utterly for personal gain. Everyone was telling her not to and even hook said to let him die. Any selfish act regardless of the act would have caused her to become dark. Which would fit with most other villains in the series.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    Actually, I'm not even sure I understand the logic of why Hook became the second Dark One. I'll let slide why tethering him to Excalibur makes him immortal in the first place, but wouldn't he have to commit another murder to become consumed by darkness?
    Probably not, much for the same reason that if zelena became the dark one, they are pretty evil to begin with and have little to no redeeming qualities.
    Last edited by Jeffer; November 17th, 2015 at 08:11 AM.
    Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together

  8. #8
    Neelix Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,709

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffer View Post
    I viewed it as her final act before becoming dark was completely and utterly for personal gain. Everyone was telling her not to and even hook said to let him die. Any selfish act regardless of the act would have caused her to become dark. Which would fit with most other villains in the series.
    But there wasn't any embrace of the idea of the darkness itself in a general sense, either as a cause or as a practice. There was just a series of basically unrelated incidents and then suddenly she poofed from normal clothes to leather when she hit the last one, as if evil can be counted in integers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffer View Post
    Probably not, much for the same reason that if zelena became the dark one, they are pretty evil to begin with and have little to no redeeming qualities.
    What? The entirety of the last few season's of Hook's character have been about him finding redemption. He hasn't played the role of a villain for a long time. If he was already evil with no redeeming qualities then what the hell is Emma doing planning a future with him? It shouldn't matter if he's the dark one or not, in that case.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  9. #9
    Captain Jeffer's Avatar
    Member Since
    May 2005
    Location
    The Ancient Napkin Despenser Planet
    Posts
    1,007

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    But there wasn't any embrace of the idea of the darkness itself in a general sense, either as a cause or as a practice. There was just a series of basically unrelated incidents and then suddenly she poofed from normal clothes to leather when she hit the last one, as if evil can be counted in integers.
    I completely agree I still don't think that she has fully embraced it, but I don't think that there has to be a build up either. Had she done a completely selfish act at any point it would have made her the dark one. That act was what made her the dark one and everything before that doesn't matter.

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    What? The entirety of the last few season's of Hook's character have been about him finding redemption. He hasn't played the role of a villain for a long time. If he was already evil with no redeeming qualities then what the hell is Emma doing planning a future with him? It shouldn't matter if he's the dark one or not, in that case.
    Look at it as a drug addicted, or someone that is trying to quit smoking. They can do very well but when put into a situation like that and they could relapse. Often times people will love them in spite of their flaws and try to help them change.

    While I would agree he hasn't been doing extremely evil stuff he hasn't been doing good either. He tried to blackmail Mr. Gold, he was working with Cora, he tried to make a deal with Zelena, he beat the crap out of Will Scarlett. He said he loved Emma and could deal with her being the dark one but turned on her the moment things got tough.

    He hasn't been doing particularly evil stuff but everything he's done has been for himself.

    Now with that said I don't think for a second he's going to kill Emma in his last line of the episode he said we have to take care of her first which I think he's talking about Zelena, but I also think he's the one that killed Merlin.
    Last edited by Jeffer; November 17th, 2015 at 03:27 PM.
    Duct tape is like the Force. It has a light side and a dark side and it holds the universe together

  10. #10
    Major General
    Member Since
    Feb 2007
    Posts
    13,249

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    This show has got to have the most twisted sense of morality I've ever seen.

    Killing innocent men in from of their wives = "All sins can be forgiven if someone loves you!"

    Killing an evil murdering rapist = "This isn't the way! That's cold blooded murder!"

    I don't remember those 2 parts..

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    Did Regina actually just say "Nobody harms my sister except me" as if they had some some sort of quaint sibling rivalry? Her victims should have a hell of a lot more right to decide Zelena's fate that Regina does.
    Yes she did. And while i agree it is common for siblings to unite against everyone ELSE when one or the other is threatened, then freely bash on one another.

    Just like one of the gals i work with, she mentioned her brother would KILL anyone who beat her up, but has no problems beating on her himself..

  11. #11
    Neelix Infinite-Possibilities's Avatar
    Member Since
    Aug 2008
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    2,709

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    My point is Regina is acting like Zelena is really her sister, instead of a monster that just so happened to share her blood. They're not just normal siblings who have some comical sibling rivalry. Zelena is dedicated specifically to destroying Regina's life. Zelena vaporized a women and then stole her identity with the intention of having sex with a guy without his consent all so that Regina's "true love" would have a baby with her first.

    I mean I would assume the person you work with doesn't mean she literally has a violent physically abusive sibling.

    When Hook was telling Emma about all the people he killed, he mentioned that he used to keep their rings as trophies, but now he keeps them as a reminder that "all sins can be forgiven if somebody loves you." That's a direct quote. He was trying to get her to open up by saying whatever bad things she's done in the past don't matter.

    Later in the episode he's horrified at the thought of her executing Zelena. Even though doing so would pretty much be completely 100% justified.

    So intentionally or not, the episode had the message that the deaths of the innocent don't matter, but the deaths of the guilty do. That's about as backwards as you could possibly take it.
    "First Weir, then Samantha Carter, and now, you! It's a pity you humans die or get reassigned so easily, or I might have a sense of satisfaction now!"

    *You got the touch! You got the poweeeeer!*

    "Arise, Woolseyus Prime."

    "Elizabeth..."

  12. #12
    Captain tomstone's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    1,471

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    Quote Originally Posted by Infinite-Possibilities View Post
    My point is Regina is acting like Zelena is really her sister, instead of a monster that just so happened to share her blood. They're not just normal siblings who have some comical sibling rivalry. Zelena is dedicated specifically to destroying Regina's life. Zelena vaporized a women and then stole her identity with the intention of having sex with a guy without his consent all so that Regina's "true love" would have a baby with her first.

    I mean I would assume the person you work with doesn't mean she literally has a violent physically abusive sibling.

    When Hook was telling Emma about all the people he killed, he mentioned that he used to keep their rings as trophies, but now he keeps them as a reminder that "all sins can be forgiven if somebody loves you." That's a direct quote. He was trying to get her to open up by saying whatever bad things she's done in the past don't matter.

    Later in the episode he's horrified at the thought of her executing Zelena. Even though doing so would pretty much be completely 100% justified.

    So intentionally or not, the episode had the message that the deaths of the innocent don't matter, but the deaths of the guilty do. That's about as backwards as you could possibly take it.
    I think its more of a Question of actually killing somebody. The good guys do not do that. Thats why Hook was worried about Emma suggesting to just kill Zelena. Its justified, but killing is never the answer, at least in fairy tale logic.

    I agree that Regina being protective is a bit out of Character after everything her Sister has done. I still go back to my Original point that the good guys dont kill and try to save lifes, so Regina even if relucantly comes to the rescue.
    Fuzzy Wuzzy wasnt old,
    Fuzzy Wuzzy gotten bald
    There was Fuzzy no more Wuzzy

  13. #13
    Colonel Spimman's Avatar
    Member Since
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Chasing 8 little feet
    Posts
    6,860

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    I wonder how good armies ever win battles in the enchanted forest...

    *tries not to think about it*
    <a href=http://s6.photobucket.com/user/spimman/media/Sig1_zps2497bbad.jpg.html target=_blank><a href=http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y202/spimman/Sig1_zps2497bbad.jpg target=_blank>http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y20...ps2497bbad.jpg</a></a>

  14. #14
    Lieutenant Colonel rushy's Avatar
    Member Since
    Nov 2009
    Location
    Estonia
    Posts
    4,466

    Default Re: Birth (508)

    Are you still really arguing about morals in this show? We've been in Austin Powers territory for the past two and a half years now.

    But I digress... I really enjoyed this episode. The Dark Hook twist was brilliant and the fact that
    Spoiler:
    he's going after Rumple again
    certainly fills me with glee. At least it gives the latter something to do after all this time. I was already afraid he was going into Archie territory.


    "Change, my dear. And it seems, not a moment too soon." - The Sixth Doctor.

Tags for this Thread

Similar Threads

  1. A New Home: The Birth of a new Sci Fi channel
    By Shpinxinator in forum Sci-Fi & Fantasy Television
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: March 25th, 2012, 01:45 AM
  2. Birth of the Alliance
    By Elitenova in forum Fan Fiction
    Replies: 55
    Last Post: June 29th, 2006, 06:48 PM
  3. Adria's Birth Is Really A Reference To
    By Scyld in forum SG-1 Season 10
    Replies: 49
    Last Post: April 20th, 2006, 06:28 PM
  4. Birth of the Replicators
    By Col_Lake in forum General Stargate Discussion
    Replies: 20
    Last Post: May 17th, 2005, 07:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •