Before the Flood (3504 / 904)

[GodAtum]

No, havent got a clue what happened. How did the Fisher King come back from the dead? he was one of the most useless and underwhelming villans ever.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

I say he wasn't really dead, only in hibernation, he was turning people into beacons to call an invasion force to Earth, and the easiest way for him to get there with no resistance is for his funeral. No one would stop a funeral in case it's part of an invasion plan, right?

The Fisher King.. Is he The Fisher King of Arthurian Legend? Keeper of the Holy Grail with the power to resurrect the dead?

Some of it seems to fit

We might see him again. He was "killed" far too easily and that's a lot of design work for a one-off monster.

And he was voiced by Peter Serafinowicz.. And we definitely need more of him in Doctor Who.. and on TV in general

While it was a slightly disappointing episode.. I say the quality this year so far is still much higher than it has been for a long time.

[Coco Pops]

What about those base doors? Are the round portals in the doors empty? Sometimes there was glass there and other times water poured through the round windows..

[Coco Pops]

BTW Blen Oh Blen....

What's this big theory you had that Moffat has been sewing seeds for the Doctor since the first episode of series 5?

[Blencathra]

Sorry I'm keeping my theory to myself for the time being. Firstly if I'm wrong then I'm going to look very silly, but more importantly if I'm right then I will have spoiled a big reveal & I don't want to do that.

I was just thinking about Clara again last night. Now my first initial irritation about her is over I have done a complete turn around and now I'm actually looking forward to seeing where this development in her character will go next.

In the past the Doctor has either picked a good person to travel with him, or when he has on occasion picked a bad person, that person has become good by travelling with the Doctor (thinking of Turlough again). With Clara we seem to be getting the reverse, and I think that makes an interesting change.

Clara started off as a sweet girl, but slightly bossy, who was quite willing to jump into the Doctor's timeline to save him. But now, since Danny's death, she has become this adrenaline junkie. All she wants is faster, more furious, more dangerous adventures. It seems to me that, despite what she says, the death of Danny has affected her more than she knows. She doesn't care about her family or her teaching any more. All she wants is that next adrenaline rush.

She is losing her humanity. She is becoming more and more like the Doctor and is picking up his bad traits. Donna told the 10th Doctor that he needed somebody to travel with him in order to stop him from going too far. But Clara is becoming like the Doctor. Very soon she won't be able to stop him, because she will be him.

Also she makes some quite terrifying statements, for instance "Don't you dare die with me." NOT "Don't you dare die". For her the Doctor can die later, but he must stay alive now because he "owes" her. No wonder the Doctor puts his head on the TARDIS console in despair. He's beginning to see that Clara has changed beyond all recognition and not for the better.

Previous Who companions have left because they either found somebody they preferred to the Doctor (Jo, Leela), or they got fed up (Tegan), or they left on their own terms (Liz, Romana, Nyssa, Martha), or they were forced to leave by external events (Jamie, Zoe, Sarah Jane, Rose, Donna, Amy) or they died (Adric, River) but is very rare indeed for the Doctor to leave somebody behind for their own good. The only one I can think of is Susan Foreman. But that wasn't quite the same, as the Doctor knew that Susan wanted firm roots and that she was in love with David Campbell.

This time I wonder if we will be working towards the Doctor actually forcing Clara out of the TARDIS and making her leave against her will. That would be an interesting and different way for a companion to go I think.

Edit - Or here's another idea. If Clara is so desperate to become the Doctor, then what about using the unused (on TV) story arc planned for Ace in the 1980s and send her to Gallifrey to train to be a Time Lord. Missy knows the location of Gallifrey, perhaps she could be prevailed upon to get Clara there. Then perhaps the Clara seen on Gallifrey in The Name of the Doctor isn't just a splinter of Clara, she actually is Clara.

[Pharaoh Hamenthotep]

So.. random thought

Beethoven's 5th Symphony was used in the example of the bootstrap paradox... And reading a bit about it I found that Beethoven’s secretary described the opening bars as ‘fate knocking at the door’

Knocking.. The opening bars.. "Duh Duh Duh Duh" Four of them.. Knocking.. Four times..

[Coco Pops]

Sorry I'm keeping my theory to myself for the time being. Firstly if I'm wrong then I'm going to look very silly, but more importantly if I'm right then I will have spoiled a big reveal & I don't want to do that.

I was just thinking about Clara again last night. Now my first initial irritation about her is over I have done a complete turn around and now I'm actually looking forward to seeing where this development in her character will go next.

In the past the Doctor has either picked a good person to travel with him, or when he has on occasion picked a bad person, that person has become good by travelling with the Doctor (thinking of Turlough again). With Clara we seem to be getting the reverse, and I think that makes an interesting change.

Clara started off as a sweet girl, but slightly bossy, who was quite willing to jump into the Doctor's timeline to save him. But now, since Danny's death, she has become this adrenaline junkie. All she wants is faster, more furious, more dangerous adventures. It seems to me that, despite what she says, the death of Danny has affected her more than she knows. She doesn't care about her family or her teaching any more. All she wants is that next adrenaline rush.

She is losing her humanity. She is becoming more and more like the Doctor and is picking up his bad traits. Donna told the 10th Doctor that he needed somebody to travel with him in order to stop him from going too far. But Clara is becoming like the Doctor. Very soon she won't be able to stop him, because she will be him.

Also she makes some quite terrifying statements, for instance "Don't you dare die with me." NOT "Don't you dare die". For her the Doctor can die later, but he must stay alive now because he "owes" her. No wonder the Doctor puts his head on the TARDIS console in despair. He's beginning to see that Clara has changed beyond all recognition and not for the better.

Previous Who companions have left because they either found somebody they preferred to the Doctor (Jo, Leela), or they got fed up (Tegan), or they left on their own terms (Liz, Romana, Nyssa, Martha), or they were forced to leave by external events (Jamie, Zoe, Sarah Jane, Rose, Donna, Amy) or they died (Adric, River) but is very rare indeed for the Doctor to leave somebody behind for their own good. The only one I can think of is Susan Foreman. But that wasn't quite the same, as the Doctor knew that Susan wanted firm roots and that she was in love with David Campbell.

This time I wonder if we will be working towards the Doctor actually forcing Clara out of the TARDIS and making her leave against her will. That would be an interesting and different way for a companion to go I think.

Edit - Or here's another idea. If Clara is so desperate to become the Doctor, then what about using the unused (on TV) story arc planned for Ace in the 1980s and send her to Gallifrey to train to be a Time Lord. Missy knows the location of Gallifrey, perhaps she could be prevailed upon to get Clara there. Then perhaps the Clara seen on Gallifrey in The Name of the Doctor isn't just a splinter of Clara, she actually is Clara.

https://c2.staticflickr.com/4/3950/1...c5359b0e25.jpg

She looks like she's dressed as a Galifreyan there too.

[P-90_177]

She looks like she's dressed as a Galifreyan there too.

Yeah she was, that was from The Name of the Doctor when one of her splintered selves was on Galifrey. Remember when she told the first Doctor which TARDIS to take.

[Coco Pops]

Yeah she was, that was from The Name of the Doctor when one of her splintered selves was on Galifrey. Remember when she told the first Doctor which TARDIS to take.

I do indeed remember that. Maybe it was Timelord Clara..

[Coco Pops]

So why does every single alien hate the Timelords? Well maybe not hate but strongly dislike if you want?

The Fisher King figures out the Doctor is one and then goes on some kind of rant.. Why is this a recurring thing?

[P-90_177]

So why does every single alien hate the Timelords? Well maybe not hate but strongly dislike if you want?

The Fisher King figures out the Doctor is one and then goes on some kind of rant.. Why is this a recurring thing?

Because they either routinely lorded it over other race OR tried to wipe out the universe in a senseless war... Basically why the rest of world gets ticked off at America.

[Coco Pops]

Because they either routinely lorded it over other race OR tried to wipe out the universe in a senseless war... Basically why the rest of world gets ticked off at America.

Ah so Galifrey is the USA of the universe..

[tomstone]

Ah so Galifrey is the USA of the universe..

Wow, never thought about it like that, but that is so true.

I got to say I am not a Fan of the new dynamic. I get that its a new take that has not been done, but the new Doctor is scary and Clara not balancing him out makes it even worse.

[Flyboy]

Ah so Galifrey is the USA of the universe..

Not really.... given that apart from a brief period in between the World Wars, the USA hasn't really had a policy of non-interference like Gallifrey. It's more a case of.... OH! You have oil!

[P-90_177]

Not really.... given that apart from a brief period in between the World Wars, the USA hasn't really had a policy of non-interference like Gallifrey. It's more a case of.... OH! You have oil!

Don't be confusing the boys and girls FB, my analogy was fine.