Discussion about hot topics trending today

[jelgate]

I think he likes being angry

[Annoyed]

Try a NEWS piece, rather than an opinion piece.
The text of the law mentions NOTHING that the opinion piece is attempting to convey. It's fear mongering 101.

Actually, I did read the raw BILL, not yet law, that is being proposed, 'cause I didn't think anyone would be stupid enough try such a blatant violation of freedom of religion. Never underestimate the stupidity of that state's government, I guess.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201920200ACR99

This measure would call upon all Californians to embrace the individual and social benefits of family and community acceptance, upon religious leaders to counsel on LGBTQ matters from a place of love, compassion, and knowledge of the psychological and other harms of conversion therapy, and upon the people of California and the institutions of California with great moral influence to model equitable treatment of all people of the state.

Read the rest of the bill, and you will see the clear intent of this bill is to dictate that Churches follow state dictates in what they teach, instead of what their faith teaches them.

I know the original post was an opinion piece, but that opinion piece was dead on accurate, including segments of the bill itself.

[SoulReaver]

Actually, I did read the raw BILL, not yet law, that is being proposed, 'cause I didn't think anyone would be stupid enough try such a blatant violation of freedom of religion. Never underestimate the stupidity of that state's government, I guess.

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/f...201920200ACR99



Read the rest of the bill, and you will see the clear intent of this bill is to dictate that Churches follow state dictates in what they teach, instead of what their faith teaches them.

I know the original post was an opinion piece, but that opinion piece was dead on accurate, including segments of the bill itself.

would this only apply to churches or would it apply to mosques & synagogues too

[Chaka-Z0]

would this only apply to churches or would it apply to mosques & synagogues too

it would

Resolved, That in addressing the stigma often associated with persons who identify as LGBTQ, we call on the people of California–especially its counselors, pastors, religious workers, educators, and legislators–and the institutions of California with great moral influence–especially its churches, universities, colleges, and other schools, counseling centers, activist groups, and religious centers–to model equitable treatment of all people of the state; and be it further

By the way idk what Annoyed is rambling about, this bill has no teeth, just a motion for LGBTQ acceptance and condemning conversion therapy.

Again, you want to follow a dogma follow it in your own home and churches, religion isn't over state law.

[Annoyed]

it would



By the way idk what Annoyed is rambling about, this bill has no teeth, just a motion for LGBTQ acceptance and condemning conversion therapy.

Again, you want to follow a dogma follow it in your own home and churches, religion isn't over state law.

That's just my point. The bill would have the state dictate what religious institutions teach their congregations, which is a clear violation of the Constitution.

And it matters, because any law begins its life as a bill. This could very well become law in that far-left loony bin.

[Chaka-Z0]

That's just my point. The bill would have the state dictate what religious institutions teach their congregations, which is a clear violation of the Constitution.

Are you high? Quotes plz.

Conversion therapies are a scam, the guys running those clinics are crooks or simply downright idiots believing their salsa. Just like in the 1900s when doctors sold you a vial of sugar and water on the promise it would enhance your breasts. You know, that's why professional orders exist, to prevent scams and people being conned with their lives on the line.

And it matters, because any law begins its life as a bill. This could very well become law in that far-left loony bin.

States have every rights to ban if they decide to. It's within their states, their laws, their call. Do you suggest states shouldn't be able to administrate themselves now? It's hard to tell because I clearly remember you advocating full independence of the states, even going as far as to suggest some should be able to go full YOLO and secede.

If the state decides squeegees are to be banned, as most urban centers did, then they can very well decide conversion therapies are to be banned also because they're on the same level : unwanted garbage.

[Annoyed]

Are you high? Quotes plz.

Conversion therapies are a scam, the guys running those clinics are crooks or simply downright idiots believing their salsa. Just like in the 1900s when doctors sold you a vial of sugar and water on the promise it would enhance your breasts. You know, that's why professional orders exist, to prevent scams and people being conned with their lives on the line.



States have every rights to ban if they decide to. It's within their states, their laws, their call. Do you suggest states shouldn't be able to administrate themselves now? It's hard to tell because I clearly remember you advocating full independence of the states, even going as far as to suggest some should be able to go full YOLO and secede.

If the state decides squeegees are to be banned, as most urban centers did, then they can very well decide conversion therapies are to be banned also because they're on the same level : unwanted garbage.

Regarding quotes, just read the bill.

And no, states do not have the right to pass laws that violate the rights enumerated in the Federal Constitution. Such as Freedom of Religion.

As far as the scam aspect goes, many people consider all religions to be scams. So, you can't have religions?

[SoulReaver]

it would

holyfook
wanna see them try enforce this law in a mosque



btw without getting into the whole Glbtqetc. debate - IF a true conversion were possible (full permanent genetic change, eg. XX to XY so a woman could become a man exactly as if she'd been born a man) would they support this?
what would the churches' stance be on this?

[Annoyed]

btw without getting into the whole Glbtqetc. debate - IF a true conversion were possible (full permanent genetic change, eg. XX to XY so a woman could become a man exactly as if she'd been born a man) would they support this?
what would the churches' stance be on this?

That's the same standard I insist upon. You can say you're whatever you want to be, but at the end of the day, XX is female, XY is male, and there is nothing else, aside from genetic aberrations such as double Y or double X.

As I said, it makes no difference to me if you want to call yourself a tuna fish sandwich, there are really only two genders, and we can't yet convert.

[Chaka-Z0]

Regarding quotes, just read the bill.

I did, an nowhere does it mention anything attacking freedom or religions.

And no, states do not have the right to pass laws that violate the rights enumerated in the Federal Constitution. Such as Freedom of Religion.

This bill does nothing to attack Freedom of Religion.

As far as the scam aspect goes, many people consider all religions to be scams. So, you can't have religions?

That's your conclusion, not mine. I said the conversion therapy is a scam. I hardly doubt these are offered free eh?

Ever seen those crazy ''spirit possession'' mess on TV where the guy cures lethargic people back to life? Looks like they're having seizures. Assuming so because to my knowledge that zoo only exists in the US. Conv. therapies are exactly the same. They exploit people's beliefs to suck the money out of their godly wallets, there is nothing religious about that nor does it impede anyone in any way in regards to their freedom of religion.

[SoulReaver]

That's the same standard I insist upon. You can say you're whatever you want to be, but at the end of the day, XX is female, XY is male, and there is nothing else, aside from genetic aberrations such as double Y or double X.

As I said, it makes no difference to me if you want to call yourself a tuna fish sandwich, there are really only two genders, and we can't yet convert.

so you didn't read the question (want a simple(r) rephrasing?)

[Chaka-Z0]

holyfook
wanna see them try enforce this law in a mosque

I'm not sure you guys get what is the actual problem here. It's not about destroying conversion therapy as a whole, they would probably still be allowed to do that. The problem is, offering this as an actual recognized alternative to medical treatment.

AKA you go see a Doc:
''Doc, I've been having weird thoughts about Denis the balding garbage man, I think I like him, what do you think I should do? Tell my wife? Seek help?''

Then the Doc goes
''Non-sense, I'm signing you up for a conversion therapy. We will smite the homo out of you''

This is expected from religion. NOT science.

If you go to a mosque and ask to be converted, good for you mate, nobody will stop you. If you go out of your mosque on the streets and start picking people at random to propose conversion, that is the problem. If a Muslim Dr. somehow pushes for that, THAT is the problem.

Capice?

btw without getting into the whole Glbtqetc. debate - IF a true conversion were possible (full permanent genetic change, eg. XX to XY so a woman could become a man exactly as if she'd been born a man) would they support this?
what would the churches' stance be on this?

idk about true conversion on the science level but with all the surgeries and body chemistry altering medication available, kids can pretty much shift gender easily, at a young age. I've seen a documentary actually and if I was to show you a picture of that girl you would never be able to tell she used to be a boy.

[SoulReaver]

I'm not sure you guys get what is the actual problem here. It's not about destroying conversion therapy as a whole, they would probably still be allowed to do that. The problem is, offering this as an actual recognized alternative to medical treatment.

AKA you go see a Doc:
''Doc, I've been having weird thoughts about Denis the balding garbage man, I think I like him, what do you think I should do? Tell my wife? Seek help?''

Then the Doc goes
''Non-sense, I'm signing you up for a conversion therapy. We will smite the homo out of you''

This is expected from religion. NOT science.

If you go to a mosque and ask to be converted, good for you mate, nobody will stop you. If you go out of your mosque on the streets and start picking people at random to propose conversion, that is the problem. If a Muslim Dr. somehow pushes for that, THAT is the problem.

Capice?

cept the bill clearly mentions "religious centers" (you quoted this yourself). is a doctor's office a religious center? +_-

idk about true conversion on the science level but with all the surgeries and body chemistry altering medication available, kids can pretty much shift gender easily, at a young age. I've seen a documentary actually and if I was to show you a picture of that girl you would never be able to tell she used to be a boy.

I'm only talking about true (= full & permanent) conversion that was made clear enough:

so a woman could become a man exactly as if she'd been born a man

atm it's sci-fi of course

also the question was addressed at conservatives (especially religious ones)

[Chaka-Z0]

There are a lot of designated religious healthcare facilities bud. Especially in the States. Probably some aren't considered as hospitals so in law terms "center" is to prevent loopholes.

[Chaka-Z0]

And private schools, etc. Centers imo is all of that.