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    #31
    Originally posted by mad_gater View Post
    actually groups like the KKK are comprised largely of Democrats....just to let you know
    Yeah, like a hundred years ago.

    Exactly what liberal policies do they support? I'm not saying conservatism equals racists...but I can't ignore the fact that they are really conservative.

    Gun laws- They hate them
    Abortion- They hate it
    Universal healthcare- They hate it
    Legal Immigration- They hate it (Disclaimer, not really a conservative thing, but it is the logical extreme that some "conservatives" end up arriving towards. It's more of a centrist belief).
    Illegal Immigration- Read above.
    Big government- Hate it
    Affirmative action- Hate it (Not that hating it is racist, but they hate it for all the wrong reasons)
    Separation of Church and State- Hate it (Same as the immigration thing. Logical extreme of some "conservatives" who decry the Republican party as no longer conservative...though it really is conservative and always has been since the 50's at the very least).
    Confederate battle flag- They practically idolize it
    Free Trade- They hate it (Though technically, conservatives are in favor of it in theory in the long term, but not in the short term).
    Unions- They hate them
    Global Warming- They either don't believe in it or blame minorities (Note: Conservatives don't blame minorities).


    I mean....not nice people and not "conservative" but really "conservative" at the same time. Though not at all liberal.



    Originally posted by Annoyed View Post
    This years' wack jobs are next years' legislation. There is a long history of crazy shiznit sprouting up in California and spreading.
    If that's the case, then this video is a good estimate of two possible futures.



    You would note that neither liberals or conservatives would approve of either scenario...though liberals I'm not too sure about actually.
    By Nolamom
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      #32
      sounds more like they don't know what they are (besides just plain crazy)...but they still tend to be largely associated with the Democratic Party....they're just being more subtle about the racism these days than they were back in the old Jim Crow days

      oh they might give lip service to some conservative values, but that's usually more of a ploy that they hope eventually discredits true conservatives (mainly they hope that people will begin to start associating all conservatives with the apparent nutcases who spout off about crazy crap)

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        #33
        Originally posted by The Flyattractor View Post
        That's because Isis isn't as EVIL as the old Confederacy.
        ISIS is WORSE than the Confederacy, as far as I'm concerned. But that's just my own humble opinion. As for whoever said to put the flag in a museum, I agree totally! That's where it belongs anyway. (also MOHO)
        Turas Sábháilte, Baile Sábháilte
        (Safe Journey, Safe Home.)

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          #34
          Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
          Let me respond by picking your brain. Why do you think that the Confederate flag triggers thoughts and memories regarding racism in the United States amongst minorities...and white people?
          IMO cause of revisionists who seem to have made the revolutionary war ONLY about slavery not about state rights? And remember, the KKK was established by Democrats, and most of their senior members were also democrats..
          Also, the south was not the only place which held slaves. The north also did.

          Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
          Exactly what liberal policies do they support? I'm not saying conservatism equals racists...but I can't ignore the fact that they are really conservative.

          Gun laws- They hate them
          And? Look at Chicago. It has some of the most restrictive gun laws around, but it has one of the highest murder rates in the country. Gun laws don't stop criminals killing. They just stop law abiding people defending themselves.

          Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
          Abortion- They hate it
          As to quite a few democrats that i know. Being against abortion is NOT a universal Conservative thing.

          Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
          Universal healthcare- They hate it
          Since i am English i know how "good" universal health care has been. My mother had to wait 8 months to get seen for her carple tunnel, after being kicked BACK Twice, to accommodate 'asylum seekers and illegals who were being treated'. Many of my friends and family still in the UK fly to the US or other countries who don't have a "Universal health care system" to get treated if they can afford it.
          So why is it 'good'?
          And why SHOULD we have universal health care anyway?

          Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
          Legal Immigration- They hate it (Disclaimer, not really a conservative thing, but it is the logical extreme that some "conservatives" end up arriving towards. It's more of a centrist belief).
          In what manner?? I don't see much in the way of Conservatives being against legal immigration into the US.

          Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
          Illegal Immigration- Read above.
          And why SHOULDN'T they be against people entering our country Illegally. What right does someone have to enter any other country without permission?

          Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
          Big government- Hate it
          So? I also hate big government. Look at what its done to our deficit!

          Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
          Affirmative action- Hate it (Not that hating it is racist, but they hate it for all the wrong reasons)
          So do i. IMO AA is nothing more than racism in reverse. It is also telling minorities "You are not good enough to succeed on your own merits, so we need to give you a boost up, to compete.

          Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
          Separation of Church and State- Hate it (Same as the immigration thing. Logical extreme of some "conservatives" who decry the Republican party as no longer conservative...though it really is conservative and always has been since the 50's at the very least).
          Being the whole Separation of Church and State mantra is based on a FLAWED ruling by the Supreme court based on a Letter wrote by one of the founders to a news paper, and something NOT In the constitution or Declaration, why shouldn't people be against it? Especially when its not used in the manner that the writer of it was envisioning.
          Such as saying that the Military can't attend a religious function in uniform, when that function is to HONOR the troops, cause it 'endorses that religion'.

          [QUOTE=aretood2;14368721] Confederate battle flag- They practically idolize it/quote]

          I have already said my piece on this.

          Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
          Free Trade- They hate it (Though technically, conservatives are in favor of it in theory in the long term, but not in the short term).
          With how i see free trade being used these days, it seems to hurt us more than it benefits us.

          Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
          Unions- They hate them
          IMO they served their purpose.

          Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
          Global Warming- They either don't believe in it or blame minorities (Note: Conservatives don't blame minorities).
          Being even the left can't agree on what it is, first global warming, then heating, now climate change, and even today there was a report that we might hit a mini ice age in 15 years all cause of solar activity, i find it rather ludicrous that people believe in it too.

          Originally posted by imzadi35 View Post
          ISIS is WORSE than the Confederacy, as far as I'm concerned.
          Same here.

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            #35
            The General of Dukes, wouldn't be the General without the confederate flag on its roof. It's how I recognize the bloody car - and I love the car.
            Heightmeyer's Lemming -- still the coolest Lemming of the forum

            Proper Stargate Rewatch -- season 10 of SG-1

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              #36
              I SO agree with you, Falcon Horus!
              Turas Sábháilte, Baile Sábháilte
              (Safe Journey, Safe Home.)

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                #37
                Originally posted by mad_gater View Post
                sounds more like they don't know what they are (besides just plain crazy)...but they still tend to be largely associated with the Democratic Party....they're just being more subtle about the racism these days than they were back in the old Jim Crow days

                oh they might give lip service to some conservative values, but that's usually more of a ploy that they hope eventually discredits true conservatives (mainly they hope that people will begin to start associating all conservatives with the apparent nutcases who spout off about crazy crap)
                My point when I listed all of those "conservative values" was that they align themselves with conservatives and not liberals. If you read my notes in the parenthesis you'd see that. Basically they believe in similar things but for the wrong reasons and thus would desire different executions (pun intended) and outcomes than conservatives or the GOP would. Now bare with me, this might actually be agreement with you.

                For example: They hate illegal immigration not because it is illegal but because they are mostly "minorities." Do you hate illegal immigration because of race? I don't think you do. Same value, different reasons...at least I hope so in general.

                They hate universal healthcare not because of some economic/political argument routed in pragmatism, but because to them it just means "more handouts to the blacks."

                They hate big government because its a politically correct way of saying "I hate that the federal government gave the blacks rights" and arguing that it violates states rights is just another PC tactic so they don't have to down right use specific racist arguments in the hopes of gaining credibility. (Interestingly, "states rights" was a euphemism for "slavery" in the south during Antebellum America and the Civil War).

                They love gun laws because...how else are they supposed to shoot minorities? They don't believe in the separation of church and state because it does play lip service to conservatives, and they wouldn't mind having their wacky cult like beliefs sponsored by the government. They also see minorities as ungodly and unchristian. So it is another way of attacking them.

                You could do the same for everything they believe in. But their view isn't about pragmatism or economics or retaining wholesome values. It is purely about blaming and attacking minorities. That's the difference. The problem I see is that some "conservatives" are picking up on their arguments and adopting them and then in turn claim that the GOP has "lost its way" when it never has. The GOP has been the same since Nixon. The only changes in the 20th century that the GOP has gotten was increased animosity towards immigration, belief in "state's rights" and resistance to civil rights measures. That was in thanks to southern Democrats who moved into the Republican party and began infecting it with stupidity.

                So actually Mad....I do agree with you. This isn't sarcasm, in a weird way, you have a point. I only disagree in that they are certainly not liberal. They were democrat, but they saw the writing on the wall and moved into the republican party. With them, they brought along some gullible naive non-racist friends who now form the republican base and scared away minorities at a time that the more liberal faction of the Democratic Party was courting minorities so they could get enough votes for things like the New Deal and the Republican Party got complacent with their minorities (which were guaranteed voters for them). It only makes perfect sense that they'd try to win back minorities...but that's another topic for another day...or thread.

                Originally posted by garhkal View Post
                IMO cause of revisionists who seem to have made the revolutionary war ONLY about slavery not about state rights? And remember, the KKK was established by Democrats, and most of their senior members were also democrats..
                Also, the south was not the only place which held slaves. The north also did.
                Interesting that you mention revisionists. You do realize that primary sources are littered with "slavery" as a point of severe contention if not a main cause and when they mention "States rights" they almost always reference slavery.

                Primary sources such as written letters, transcripts of political debates, documents of causes of secession that several states wrote, and transcripts of speeches such as the cornerstone speech.

                Yes, it wasn't only about slavery, but slavery was an inescapable cause. And what northern states, exactly, still had slavery? New Jersey and Pennsylvania are the southernmost northern states and they abolished slavery decades before Lincoln was even born. Or do you mean the border states that didn't have the...proper anatomical parts...to leave the union? A geography lesson would show you that the Mason Dixon line is between Pennsylvania (to the north) and Maryland and Delaware (to the south). Well, really they flirted with abolitionists a lot, actually which is why they didn't leave. They wanted to see which way the wind was blowing...and Lincoln held a gun to their heads forcing them to stay (what a tyrant!).

                Anyway, the Civil war in and of itself isn't enough. Don't you think that the way the battle flag was used predominately since the civil war plays a role? After all, the non-racist public didn't start using that flag until the 1960's. By then, that flag gained its identity and symbol of racism in the eyes of many minorities (especially black people. hard to like the flag that your mother's and grandmother's rapists fly every day he wears a white hooded outfit while the courts refuse to prosecute them).

                And? Look at Chicago. It has some of the most restrictive gun laws around, but it has one of the highest murder rates in the country. Gun laws don't stop criminals killing. They just stop law abiding people defending themselves.
                Did I ever say I was in favor of gun laws? Do you really think that's why they are against gun laws?

                As to quite a few democrats that i know. Being against abortion is NOT a universal Conservative thing.

                That's beyond the point.

                Since i am English i know how "good" universal health care has been. My mother had to wait 8 months to get seen for her carple tunnel, after being kicked BACK Twice, to accommodate 'asylum seekers and illegals who were being treated'. Many of my friends and family still in the UK fly to the US or other countries who don't have a "Universal health care system" to get treated if they can afford it.
                So why is it 'good'?
                And why SHOULD we have universal health care anyway?
                I never said anything in being for or against it myself, the concept or Obamacare.

                In what manner?? I don't see much in the way of Conservatives being against legal immigration into the US.
                You are correct in that conservatism does value immigration. Thus my confusion as to why people like Senator Sessions and Rush Limbaugh are against legal immigration.
                And why SHOULDN'T they be against people entering our country Illegally. What right does someone have to enter any other country without permission?
                As I told MG, they aren't against it because of legal reasons.


                So? I also hate big government. Look at what its done to our deficit!
                But you hate it because of economic reasons, not racial reasons.

                So do i. IMO AA is nothing more than racism in reverse. It is also telling minorities "You are not good enough to succeed on your own merits, so we need to give you a boost up, to compete.
                But that's not why they hate it.

                Being the whole Separation of Church and State mantra is based on a FLAWED ruling by the Supreme court based on a Letter wrote by one of the founders to a news paper, and something NOT In the constitution or Declaration, why shouldn't people be against it? Especially when its not used in the manner that the writer of it was envisioning.
                Such as saying that the Military can't attend a religious function in uniform, when that function is to HONOR the troops, cause it 'endorses that religion'.

                Once again, not the reason they don't believe in it.


                Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
                With how i see free trade being used these days, it seems to hurt us more than it benefits us.

                IMO they served their purpose.
                As far as wages and benefits? Yeah. But remember, they also serve to protect employees from unfair practices through internal appeals and advocacy. Imagine how many police officers would be needlessly fired if it weren't for their police unions? Left alone to the civil courts, most people don't have the resources nor stamina to fight that alone. It takes insurmountable amount of paper work, fees, and time. Lots and lots of time to file and fight in the civil courts especially if you are going up against a huge company who can afford a small army of ivy league lawyers.


                Being even the left can't agree on what it is, first global warming, then heating, now climate change, and even today there was a report that we might hit a mini ice age in 15 years all cause of solar activity, i find it rather ludicrous that people believe in it too.

                You honestly think that's why they don't believe in it?


                Originally posted by Falcon Horus View Post
                The General of Dukes, wouldn't be the General without the confederate flag on its roof. It's how I recognize the bloody car - and I love the car.

                I have nothing against the show, I haven't watched it. Like I said, that battle flag turned me off and I have no other incentive for watching it. Maybe sometime in the future I may be curious enough to watch it.
                By Nolamom
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                  #38
                  Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
                  For example: They hate illegal immigration not because it is illegal but because they are mostly "minorities." Do you hate illegal immigration because of race? I don't think you do. Same value, different reasons...at least I hope so in general.
                  Where are you getting that most conservatives hate illegal immigration cause its mostly minorities from?

                  Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
                  They hate universal healthcare not because of some economic/political argument routed in pragmatism, but because to them it just means "more handouts to the blacks."
                  Same question as above.

                  Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
                  They love gun laws because...how else are they supposed to shoot minorities? They don't believe in the separation of church and state because it does play lip service to conservatives, and they wouldn't mind having their wacky cult like beliefs sponsored by the government. They also see minorities as ungodly and unchristian. So it is another way of attacking them.
                  Again, where is this coming from?

                  Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
                  Anyway, the Civil war in and of itself isn't enough. Don't you think that the way the battle flag was used predominately since the civil war plays a role? After all, the non-racist public didn't start using that flag until the 1960's. By then, that flag gained its identity and symbol of racism in the eyes of many minorities (especially black people. hard to like the flag that your mother's and grandmother's rapists fly every day he wears a white hooded outfit while the courts refuse to prosecute them).
                  I'll give you that point. The KKK did kind of poison the use of it. BUT its the same with the Swastica. Before the Nazi's got ahold of it, it was used by the romans, Buddists (or was it shinto?) and several other religions over 100s of years. BUT now all people can think of when they see it is NAZI!

                  Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
                  Did I ever say I was in favor of gun laws? Do you really think that's why they are against gun laws?
                  No. BUT how is it the left/democrats are FOR it, when the most violent cities (for gun related crimes) ARE The cities they have ruled for 2+ decades and have INSTIGATED the most laws in.?

                  Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
                  That's beyond the point.
                  Is it? I hear from quite a few peole i MUST be conservative/republican, just cause i am against Abortion. Your earlier post, seems to mimic that mantra. Which thus means that if you are for Abortion you must be leftist/liberal. BUT as i said i know quite a few liberals who like me are against it, which kind of shoots down their POV.

                  Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
                  You are correct in that conservatism does value immigration. Thus my confusion as to why people like Senator Sessions and Rush Limbaugh are against legal immigration.
                  In all the times i have listened to Rush, i have not once (at least that i can remember) heard him say anything towards being against LEGAL immigration, just Illegal immigration and granting them amnesty.
                  Do you have any quotes to back up your comment that those 2 are against it?

                  Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
                  But that's not why they hate it.
                  They who??

                  Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
                  As far as wages and benefits? Yeah. But remember, they also serve to protect employees from unfair practices through internal appeals and advocacy. Imagine how many police officers would be needlessly fired if it weren't for their police unions? Left alone to the civil courts, most people don't have the resources nor stamina to fight that alone. It takes insurmountable amount of paper work, fees, and time. Lots and lots of time to file and fight in the civil courts especially if you are going up against a huge company who can afford a small army of ivy league lawyers.
                  It also makes it hard as hell to fire people when there IS cause. Just look at how much crap School boards have to go through to get rid of bad apple teachers, all cause of unions.

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                    #39
                    Originally posted by garhkal View Post
                    Where are you getting that most conservatives hate illegal immigration cause its mostly minorities from?

                    Same question as above.

                    Again, where is this coming from?
                    I'm not talking about conservatives. I'm talking about racist groups like the KKK that look conservative because they have similar beliefs. Although the beliefs held by groups like the KKK differ from conservatives in that conservatives don't have racist reasons for their beliefs. Groups like the KKK have racist reasons for their beliefs but are able to hide behind the vale of conservatism because it's convenient. Thus many of them complain about how the republican party lost its way when in fact it never really has...not by much.

                    I'll give you that point. The KKK did kind of poison the use of it. BUT its the same with the Swastica. Before the Nazi's got ahold of it, it was used by the romans, Buddists (or was it shinto?) and several other religions over 100s of years. BUT now all people can think of when they see it is NAZI!
                    I think it's Hindu. At first the CSA Battle flag was just that, a battle flag and that has its place when used in that manner. But I think what is most interesting are the opinions of Robert E Lee himself.

                    For starters he did not want monuments of himself nor his soldiers in battlefield sites.
                    He did not want people to be divided by a war he didn't even agree with (he believed in the perpetuity of the Union).


                    This he had to say about these things, "“I think it wisest not to keep open the sores of war, but to follow the example of those nations who endeavored to obliterate the marks of civil strife, and to commit to oblivion the feelings it engendered.”

                    And here is a quote from Jefferson Davis (President of the Confederate States).


                    “My pride is that that flag shall not set between contending brothers; and that, when it shall no longer be the common flag of the country, it shall be folded up and laid away like a vesture no longer used.”


                    Davis' descendent, SC Senator Jenny Horne pretty much carried out his wish recently.

                    No. BUT how is it the left/democrats are FOR it, when the most violent cities (for gun related crimes) ARE The cities they have ruled for 2+ decades and have INSTIGATED the most laws in.?
                    As I mentioned above, this isn't about conservatives as it is about groups that are conservative in appearance but just simply racist that hide behind the vale of conservatism.


                    Is it? I hear from quite a few peole i MUST be conservative/republican, just cause i am against Abortion. Your earlier post, seems to mimic that mantra. Which thus means that if you are for Abortion you must be leftist/liberal. BUT as i said i know quite a few liberals who like me are against it, which kind of shoots down their POV.
                    Yes, because it has no bearing on my point that I was talking about.

                    In all the times i have listened to Rush, i have not once (at least that i can remember) heard him say anything towards being against LEGAL immigration, just Illegal immigration and granting them amnesty.
                    Do you have any quotes to back up your comment that those 2 are against it?
                    I remember reading something on it. I'd have to get back to you on that. Rain check.


                    They who??
                    The racists.


                    It also makes it hard as hell to fire people when there IS cause. Just look at how much crap School boards have to go through to get rid of bad apple teachers, all cause of unions.
                    Here's the thing. I've heard it both ways. On one side it seems that teachers are getting fired over the silliest of things. On the other hand I hear that the worst teachers in the world are able to hold on to their jobs. So all I can do is go by what I know in my area. And what I have seen is that it is simple enough to fire a teacher as long as there is proof of a just cause if there is tenure and they need no proof of anything to fire an nontenured teacher. For nontenured teachers, the unions have to prove that there was an illegal (that is against US/State law) reason for the dismissal.
                    By Nolamom
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                      #40
                      Thanks for clarifiing what you meant Aretood

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                        #41
                        Did everyone hear or see the report about the KKK member in SC who got heatstroke and was helped by a Black police officer? I thought that was nice of the officer to help the man, no matter his beliefs. We need more people like that in this world.
                        Turas Sábháilte, Baile Sábháilte
                        (Safe Journey, Safe Home.)

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                          #42
                          Originally posted by imzadi35 View Post
                          Did everyone hear or see the report about the KKK member in SC who got heatstroke and was helped by a Black police officer? I thought that was nice of the officer to help the man, no matter his beliefs. We need more people like that in this world.
                          That was class of that office.
                          BUT imo it would have been MORE classy had it been reversed (a KKK member medically assisting a black person).

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                            #43
                            Originally posted by garhkal View Post
                            That was class of that office.
                            BUT imo it would have been MORE classy had it been reversed (a KKK member medically assisting a black person).
                            And then promptly "did all he could" to save said person's life who tragically didn't make it. The biggest thing about that picture is that the officer was helping a man who would gladly have him and his family killed in their sleep.
                            By Nolamom
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                              #44
                              Originally posted by aretood2 View Post
                              And then promptly "did all he could" to save said person's life who tragically didn't make it. The biggest thing about that picture is that the officer was helping a man who would gladly have him and his family killed in their sleep.
                              R2.. How many blacks have been killed by members of the KKK in the past 50 years?

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                                #45
                                Originally posted by garhkal View Post
                                R2.. How many blacks have been killed by members of the KKK in the past 50 years?
                                So you are saying that the KKK would mind if black people just died? What's your point exactly?
                                By Nolamom
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