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  1. #61
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by Britta View Post
    TNT was first used as a yellow dye, and Dynamite was invented for mining purposes. Consequently, neither of these are weapons. Of course this isn't true. What I'm getting that is that it's absolutely irrelevant what something was made for, what matters is what it's used for.
    Sure.
    Privately owned guns are overwhelmingly used for lawful purposes, mostly sporting purposes and hunting. There is also self defense. Most gun murders are gang violence, primarily gang-on-gang. Legalise and regulate all controlled substances and gun violence will plummet. A lot more gun violence can probably be attribute to indirect social harm caused by the war on drugs.
    I agree, but that is a separate issue. Suffice to say. I really do agree with your point there.

    Then there's the big question. If you somehow got rid of all guns, would the murder rate go up or down? Do they kill more than they save? Unfortunately there aren't good statistics kept of defensive uses of guns, but I wouldn't be surprised if they outweigh the lives lost.
    I don't want to get rid of all guns, this is the right wing illusion.
    I may want to take your 200 round per minute rifle off you, I don't want to take your 6 shooter, or your bolt action rifle.

    Besides, I don't think you should ban or restrict something for everyone because of the actions of a criminal minority, when there are far better solutions to explore. I think a lot of politicians use gun control as a big distraction to hide their disinterest in tackling the real issues.
    What better solutions?
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  2. #62
    Air Force Chief of Staff Britta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    I don't want to get rid of all guns, this is the right wing illusion.
    I may want to take your 200 round per minute rifle off you, I don't want to take your 6 shooter, or your bolt action rifle.
    I think the lines should be drawn based on fact, not fear. Automatic weapons and rifles aren't really used in crime. It's pretty much all handguns, which are also the most popular for self defense.

    There's a reason for this. Forget firepower, concealability almost always wins.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    What better solutions?
    Abolish the war on drugs, fix inequality. The usual suspects. I think gun violence isn't a gun problem, it's a violence problem. Instead of trying to declaw people, stop them trying to kill each other in the first place.

    "BRITTA? WHAT KIND OF LAME NAME IS THAT?"

  3. #63
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by Britta View Post
    Legalise and regulate all controlled substances and gun violence will plummet. A lot more gun violence can probably be attribute to indirect social harm caused by the war on drugs.
    You raise a very good point here. A great deal of violence in our society is caused by illegal drugs, and the problems caused by their illegality. But can we afford the alternative? I've had this discussion many times on conservative-oriented sites.

    Being generally in favor of the smallest, least intrusive government possible, ideally, it would be up to each citizen to decide for their self whether to smoke weed or use some other drug or not, just as it is with alcohol now. And the state can tax it, and that would ease state budget crunches. And in a vacuum, this is the stance I would take. But we don't live in a vacuum.

    With drugs and alcohol today, the faux disease of "addiction" is used as a ticket to the benefits free-ride superhighway. All someone has to do is get some head doctor to state that they are addicted to something, and they can hop on for the free ride, as the "doctor" states that they are unable to work due to their addiction. Oh, and by the way, very often these medical personnel are paid by the state, so it is in their financial best interest to have a sizable number of "patients" to treat.

    My concern and objection to legalizing pot and other mostly harmless drugs is that it will take the medical profession all of 5 minutes to come up with new 35 dollar words for "addiction" to the newly legalized drugs, and ten minutes after that, there will be new government funded programs for these addictions which allow the user to hop onto the benefits free-ride way.

    We have to be forcing people off of that free-ride way, not opening up more onramps. We can't afford the increase in leeches that legalization would inevitably result in.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
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    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
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  4. #64
    Air Force Chief of Staff Britta's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    State funded rehab. If you have an addiction that is preventing you from working, the state should help you get clean. That should be the limit. The state shouldn't be funding people who choose not to get clean, and spend their time sitting around getting high.

    There's a world of difference between tolerating drug use and endorsing it.

    "BRITTA? WHAT KIND OF LAME NAME IS THAT?"

  5. #65
    Major General aretood2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by Womble View Post

    When you take a good look at the statistics as a whole, the entire American gun control debate is completely off target from both sides. More firearms regulation is necessary, but the laws being proposed do not address the problem correctly because hey are driven by wrong motivation.
    A lot about this one paragraph is true. The left feels like it could legislate the problem away while the right feels that giving everyone a gun is the answer. The fact is that neither will work. The problem is cultural.

    Statistically, the percentage of white mass shooters is proportional to the number of white people in the US. Same with black shooters and Asians are rare, but there aren't that many of them to begin with. The number missing from that are Hispanics which are more rare than a Donald Trump apologies.

    They are also, overwhelmingly male. The problem? The gun culture. Culturally, men are tied to guns and disuaded from dealing with emotional issues (signs of weakness and stuff). So, I'm a man...I have repressed all sorts of things...men use guns. Time to blow up (pun intended) and start killing people. That's how it works.

    On the school level it is much the same for student shooters.

    Now keep in mind that the percentage of mass shooters in each category is insignificantly small. But it exists just big enough in the US to matter, because it is a cultural issue. You can't legislate culture nor can you scare it away with guns.

  6. #66
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by Britta View Post
    State funded rehab. If you have an addiction that is preventing you from working, the state should help you get clean. That should be the limit. The state shouldn't be funding people who choose not to get clean, and spend their time sitting around getting high.

    There's a world of difference between tolerating drug use and endorsing it.
    I really don't buy into the whole "addiction" thing. I don't accept it as a "disease". There is no disease on the face of the earth that can force me to open a bottle and drink its contents or ingest some other substance into my body. It's simply willpower, or a lack thereof.

    The speech Kirk gives Anan 7 in "A Taste of Armageddon" is a very good illustration of this.
    KIRK: All right. It's instinctive. But the instinct can be fought. We're human beings with the blood of a million savage years on our hands, but we can stop it. We can admit that we're killers, but we're not going to kill today. That's all it takes. Knowing that we won't kill today.
    Last edited by Annoyed; July 25th, 2015 at 04:31 PM.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
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  7. #67
    Colonel mad_gater's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by Britta View Post
    TNT was first used as a yellow dye, and Dynamite was invented for mining purposes. Consequently, neither of these are weapons. Of course this isn't true. What I'm getting that is that it's absolutely irrelevant what something was made for, what matters is what it's used for.

    Privately owned guns are overwhelmingly used for lawful purposes, mostly sporting purposes and hunting. There is also self defense. Most gun murders are gang violence, primarily gang-on-gang. Legalise and regulate all controlled substances and gun violence will plummet. A lot more gun violence can probably be attribute to indirect social harm caused by the war on drugs.

    Then there's the big question. If you somehow got rid of all guns, would the murder rate go up or down? Do they kill more than they save? Unfortunately there aren't good statistics kept of defensive uses of guns, but I wouldn't be surprised if they outweigh the lives lost.

    Besides, I don't think you should ban or restrict something for everyone because of the actions of a criminal minority, when there are far better solutions to explore. I think a lot of politicians use gun control as a big distraction to hide their disinterest in tackling the real issues.
    agree wholeheartedly....and all you have to do is look at Chicago as a microcosm of what gun control inevitably does.....Chicago has some of the strictest gun laws in the US yet they have one of the highest crime rates in the country

  8. #68
    General Falcon Horus's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    I really don't buy into the whole "addiction" thing. I don't accept it as a "disease". There is no disease on the face of the earth that can force me to open a bottle and drink its contents or ingest some other substance into my body. It's simply willpower, or a lack thereof.
    Clearly, you've never been addicted to anything, or have felt the aftermath of an addiction. Otherwise, you wouldn't have said this.

    Better to ask someone who has what an addiction feels like, or what it does to a mindset even one that has enough willpower to overcome it.
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  9. #69
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    Clearly, you've never been addicted to anything, or have felt the aftermath of an addiction. Otherwise, you wouldn't have said this.

    Better to ask someone who has what an addiction feels like, or what it does to a mindset even one that has enough willpower to overcome it.
    Special snowflake is special.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
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  10. #70
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by Falcon Horus View Post
    Clearly, you've never been addicted to anything, or have felt the aftermath of an addiction. Otherwise, you wouldn't have said this.

    Better to ask someone who has what an addiction feels like, or what it does to a mindset even one that has enough willpower to overcome it.
    Guess again. I smoked for 24 years. Decided to quit in June, 2000, and the only cigarette I've smoked since then was in late August of that year, as a self-test. Took 3 hits and flushed it. Have not put another to my lips since then.
    It was one of the most difficult things I've ever done. But I only had to do it once.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
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    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
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  11. #71
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    Guess again. I smoked for 24 years. Decided to quit in June, 2000, and the only cigarette I've smoked since then was in late August of that year, as a self-test. Took 3 hits and flushed it. Have not put another to my lips since then.
    It was one of the most difficult things I've ever done. But I only had to do it once.
    Count yourself among the lucky ones.
    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    there is no disease on the face of the earth that can force me to open a bottle and drink its contents or ingest some other substance into my body.
    Yea guess again. A friend of mine had anorexia (yea, a guy) and you have no idea what the power of the mind is. Just because you got off with your smoking doesn't mean it's just as easy/hard for everyone. For bonus irony points: That very friend was of the same "people are weak/just lack willpower" mentality. Took him years of therapy to be somewhat normal again, and even now he's still busy with his body building. It never goes away completely.

    Also, you literally smoked for 25 years and admit quitting was the hardest thing ever. you cant imagine someone having it slightly harder and not being able to quit at all?

    Finally, just for contrast: my father smoked for years. Until one day he felt sick (something unrelated), didn't smoke for a week and when he got better, he lit a cigarette, spat it out and never smoked since, never craving it either. For that one case i know 10 guys who tried and failed. Hell my ex-colleague was addicted to drugs, to smoking and drinking. He managed to quit drugs and quit drinking (after ~30 years) but can't cope with quitting smoking too. if he tries he just completely breaks down and starts drinking (And smoking) again.
    Last edited by thekillman; July 26th, 2015 at 08:04 AM.

  12. #72
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    Count yourself among the lucky ones. and smoking? smoking's not halfway across the addiction list.
    Although I don't place a great deal of faith in psychological claptrap, most of the medical reports I've read say that cigarettes are harder to quit than heroin, alcohol or most anything else. This article https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...e-is-the-worst places only food and love above cigarettes
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
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    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
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  13. #73
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    Although I don't place a great deal of faith in psychological claptrap, most of the medical reports I've read say that cigarettes are harder to quit than heroin, alcohol or most anything else. This article https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...e-is-the-worst places only food and love above cigarettes
    It places potato chips above cigarettes. sounds legit.

  14. #74

    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    It places potato chips above cigarettes. sounds legit.
    Maybe its those pot potato chips.

  15. #75
    Lieutenant General thekillman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by jelgate View Post
    Maybe its those pot potato chips.
    More like crack and heroin potato chips.

  16. #76
    Colonel mad_gater's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    Count yourself among the lucky ones.

    Yea guess again. A friend of mine had anorexia (yea, a guy) and you have no idea what the power of the mind is. Just because you got off with your smoking doesn't mean it's just as easy/hard for everyone. For bonus irony points: That very friend was of the same "people are weak/just lack willpower" mentality. Took him years of therapy to be somewhat normal again, and even now he's still busy with his body building. It never goes away completely.

    Also, you literally smoked for 25 years and admit quitting was the hardest thing ever. you cant imagine someone having it slightly harder and not being able to quit at all?

    Finally, just for contrast: my father smoked for years. Until one day he felt sick (something unrelated), didn't smoke for a week and when he got better, he lit a cigarette, spat it out and never smoked since, never craving it either. For that one case i know 10 guys who tried and failed. Hell my ex-colleague was addicted to drugs, to smoking and drinking. He managed to quit drugs and quit drinking (after ~30 years) but can't cope with quitting smoking too. if he tries he just completely breaks down and starts drinking (And smoking) again.
    cigarettes are quite the expensive addiction too....can easily spend hundreds of dollars a week on cigarettes....good thing I never started smoking I guess

    the one and only drag I ever took off a cigarettes just reinforced my desire to never start once I was done hacking my lungs out...I figure I got enough cigarette smoke second hand from my paternal grandparents while they were still alive anyway

  17. #77
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by thekillman View Post
    Last edited by thekillman; Today at 12:04 PM.
    Also, you literally smoked for 25 years and admit quitting was the hardest thing ever. you cant imagine someone having it slightly harder and not being able to quit at all?
    Added after my first response, I guess.

    No. But I can imagine someone having a harder time and having to work harder to achieve the goal.

    There is an awful lot of things that happen to us that are totally outside of our control. But our battles with our own inner demons are ours alone, to win or to lose as we see fit. When I started quitting, I swore to myself that this was one battle I would not lose.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
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  18. #78
    Major General aretood2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    What of the whole Hulk Hogan racist comments....it left me very perplexed.

  19. #79
    Captain ZRFTS's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    What of the whole Hulk Hogan racist comments....it left me very perplexed.
    I don't know; celebrities usually get cocky of themselves and make mistakes on the basis that their thinking is "in line" with the public. When in actuality, the public takes offense and the person doesn't realize until they tell it to him; meaning the damage is done. Every celebrity has gone through this without even realizing and sometimes it's nothing, sometimes it's severe. Hulk Hogan may have lost his WWE status but he still has his fanbase. Bill Cosby on the other hand...
    Back from the grave.

  20. #80
    Major Annoyed's Avatar
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    Default Re: Discussion about hot topics trending today

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    What of the whole Hulk Hogan racist comments....it left me very perplexed.
    Consider the source and move on would be my suggestion.
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    "Perhaps there's something to be said for assimilation after all."
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