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If you were an Ancient and the designer of the Stargate....

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    If you were an Ancient and the designer of the Stargate....

    If you were an Ancient, well the Ancient who created the Stargate how would you make it? Now to me it seems the way it was built is not very efficient. I mean using constellations? Really? Most of the civilizations in space that we saw in Stargate were fairly primitive, much more so than we are. Now being an Ancient it may have been easy to understand, especially since they designed and created the device, but how is using constellations, 6 of them going to help? Then the Point of Origin, how are people supposed to know that? There are 39 symbols, so the POO has to overlap and I don't really get how that works...

    Now if I was the designer of the Stargate I wouldn't make it as complex, I would make it relatively easy to use, like the Asgard computer core or the Ancient holographic knowledge thing on Atlantis. Why not simply have the pedestal and at the top make it so it is a touch screen interface that allows you to choose what planet you want to go too? Let's say you're here on Earth... You touch the screen and it will show you an image of the galaxy then you can narrow down your search by zeroing in on certain quadrants and it will get narrower and narrower over lets say 5 or 6 screens then display the active Stargates in that area. (Sorry if my explanation is a little confusing.) Another thing is I think they should've included camera's, not many people in the Stargate Universe had MALP's to use, so why not put cameras on the Gate and once you dial the gate on the interface it will show you a live feed. I doubt the Ancients made the Stargate Network just for themselves, we also have no idea how the Alliance of the Great Four Races came to be, it could've been through the Stargates...

    How would you design the DHD's, Stargates and the Stargate Network?

    #2
    If I was an Ancient I would make it more complex, not less. Why would I want a bunch of primitives to be able to use the gate network and get into and cause trouble? The idea of creating humans and having them inherit the Ancient's place in the universe wasn't a gleam in some Ancient's mind until tens of millions of years after the Stargate was built. That means, in your scenario, you would be building easy access modes of travel for random aliens that evolved on Stargate worlds or stumbled onto the gate network. You don't know what their intent is and do you really want to one day wake up to find out that Ancient controlled worlds were being raided by some enemy appearing and disappearing through the gate?

    And if I did have the foresight to realize that one day Ancients wouldn't be around and so the gate network would be left to whatever powers arose, how bad of me would it be to make it easy for the strong to gain control of it and use it to hurt the weak? The whole reason the Goa'uld exist as a threat is because the Ancients did not have that foresight. If there was no Stargate on their homeworld, they'd probably still be there trying to take over Unas hosts.

    So yeah I'd definitely put in security measures to try to keep non-Ancients from using them. They were created before gene recognition technology came into existence. However, I would retrofit every single gate with that the second that was developed and before then I'd put tradition password locks in place (and do away with manual dialing). Truly advanced species will find a way past any security measures, but it should be made as difficult as possible for non authorized users.

    That's not to say that it has to be just for them. However, if they meet a friendly alien species and want to give them access that is something that they should be able to choose or not choose to do. And, btw, the Four Great Races long postdates the early days of Ancient civilization. The Stargate was imagined as a possibility back when they were in their home galaxy. Presumably someone picked up the idea thousands of years later when they arrived in the Milky Way. That was supposed to be over 50 million years ago. The Asgard were not in existence then and dialogue from Atlantis saying that they had a 100,000 year old civilization suggests that the alliance was not formed by the Ancients living in the pre-plague Milky Way, 5-10 million years ago but by some of the Ancients who fled back to the Milky Way 10,000 years ago.
    Last edited by Xaeden; 15 March 2024, 06:01 AM.

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      #3
      Well in the Pegasus galaxy we know they use the Stargate network quite often and the Genii was a coalition of planets, considering they didn't have ships, they used the Stargate. The Athosians used it as well as numerous other planets there. I don't think the Ancients used it that many times, they had ships and when they did use it, it was to go from Atlantis to Earth. I am sure they used it more times than just that trip but no way they used it that much.
      Last edited by jfarrell327; 01 May 2015, 11:52 AM.

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        #4
        They didn't use it all that much based on what? That they had hyperdrive capable ships? Ships are there for bulk transport of large goods and for militaristic purposes. For everyday transport and travel the Ancients would not have shunned the device that can take them where they want to go in seconds for a ship that would potentially take days to get where it was going. The gate network connects their civilization. Instead of building planet wide population centers, they could built a single city or outpost on a particular planet and connect them all together with the Stargates that they placed nearby.

        Also, they designed non-hyperdrive ships (jumpers) specifically to make getting to and from a Stargate easier. Did you think they were just for show before Earth showed up?

        Your examples of what humans did with the gate highlights how the gate network has been used in the Ancient's absence, not how the Ancients intended for it to be used. The Athosians use it for peaceful trade, but the Genii have used it to militarily expand beyond their planet (they are not a coalition of different planets, they are a people from one planet who has set up bases and mines throughout the galaxy) and threaten/bully others. While I do think that the Ancients did intend for Pegasus humans to take over and benefit from the gate network once they were gone, they certainly didn't expect that humans would be so primitive when that time came.

        However, that has nothing to do with the purpose behind the gate network. The Pegasus gate network, as it currently exists, was created 5-10 million years ago and the idea to populate the galaxy with a second evolution of their form came at some unknown time after that. However, the first gate network (as far as we know) was created 50 million years ago. The second evolution of their form in the Milky Way was created 5-10 million years ago on Earth in hopes of preserving their species when they were dying from the plague. So its creation had nothing to do with the second evolution of their form. That humans get to benefit from it is just a byproduct of the decline/evolution of Ancient civilization, just as all the Ancient technology that humans get to benefit from. For example, the Ancients did not leave Atlantis for humans to find. They left it because they hoped that future generations of Ancients would still be around in the future and could return. Finding out that humans, if given a little help, could be the ones to benefit from it was exciting to a grand total of one of them.
        Last edited by Xaeden; 15 March 2024, 06:02 AM.

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          #5
          Originally posted by Xaeden View Post
          The gate network connects their civilization.
          Ancient technology seems to have been built around the use of the Stargate, e.g. the ZPM (a planet's worth of power in a convenient bottle), the control crystals, the jumpers. There are some unavoidable things that won't fit through a gate, but it seems that the gate was used a lot for convenience. So i support that notion: the stargate was an important element of their civilization.

          Furthermore, such suggestions as camera's don't make sense in context. We built MALPS for unexplored worlds and radios for connected worlds. Yet the ancients placed them in a time where they were masters of the galaxy: to them there was no risk of actually ending up in the middle of nowhere near a black hole or a hostile civilization. The constellation thing is a bit of a stretch, true, but they can memorize complex designs, memorizing the list of adresses would be no big deal, no need for touch screens.

          The only things i'd change are:

          *have the coordinate system make more sense.
          *Have remotes like the Universe gate.
          *have a non-rotating gate (so Atlantis style). Moving parts just invite maintenance problems
          *have the DHD with the center button as the instant 7th symbol in stead of the confusing mess of the series.
          * make the stargates less durable so, should something bad happen, i won't need a ****ing Gigaton nuke behind it.

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            #6
            I would have also made all gates have their own Iris, so anyone who wanted to block travel to their world could have done so.

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              #7
              Originally posted by garhkal View Post
              I would have also made all gates have their own Iris, so anyone who wanted to block travel to their world could have done so.
              That wouldn't really be fair or possible. You open a wormhole walk through and oops, sorry... you're dead...

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                #8
                Originally posted by jfarrell327 View Post
                That wouldn't really be fair or possible. You open a wormhole walk through and oops, sorry... you're dead...
                Of course it would be possible. In the ancient's time, things like uninhabited worlds or dangerous worlds wouldn't have gates. A quick radio to the other side would've ensured safety

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                  #9
                  Originally posted by jfarrell327 View Post
                  That wouldn't really be fair or possible. You open a wormhole walk through and oops, sorry... you're dead...
                  Well if you are blocking travel to your planet, its most likely being done for security reasons...

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by garhkal View Post
                    Well if you are blocking travel to your planet, its most likely being done for security reasons...
                    But I was speaking about all of the gates. Sure it is possible but it isn't really needed. Not all worlds with the Stargates were inhabited, so why put it on all gates? Not to mention many of the inhabited worlds even knew how to work the stargate, most didn't even know what it was, like the one that thought it was an artifact until it came to life and the MALP came through.

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                      #11
                      True blocking all planets would defeat the purpose of having the gate there. BUT having one on the Ancient held worlds would ensure they couldn't be overrun via the gate.

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                        #12
                        Originally posted by garhkal View Post
                        True blocking all planets would defeat the purpose of having the gate there. BUT having one on the Ancient held worlds would ensure they couldn't be overrun via the gate.
                        I would imagine that at a certain point they came to consider a city/outpost's shields sufficient protection. With the exception of Atlantis, which has an in-house Stargate because they chose to keep the city on water, all Stargates on former Ancient worlds have been observed to be placed a short distance away from their population centers. That's true even of Atlantis' sister city and Atlantis itself when it was still in the Milky Way.

                        To make an in-house Stargate work following the move to Pegasus they had to put a shield on the gate. In the other instances, they could just do something along the follow:

                        Monitor gate activity. If there's an incoming wormhole, put the shields up and wait for confirmation that those who dialed in are friendly. If not and an enemy sends a bomb through, no big deal, the shields will protect them. There's no indication that they ever created more than a single population center on a single planet so it would be easy to protect what they have. It does suck that the surrounding environment would be devastated but if its a city ship that is attacked you could always move it. Not ideal as they'd use less resources keeping a bomb out in the first place than having to deal with the ramifications, but they're the Ancients. As such they're overly confident in their ability to overpower enemies with their advanced technology and they probably don't expect anyone who halfway knows them to think sending a bomb through would do anything but serve as a minor irritant.

                        Alternatively, if an enemy sends forces through the gate, there's not much that they can do against a well shielded target. They'd have 38 minutes to send through as many ground troops with puny weapons and, if they have them, small fighters/vehicles that again can't carry weaponry of sufficient power to take down a city/outpost's shields. Meanwhile, the Ancients could safely bombard them as they're coming through so it would just be a conga line of death for anyone stupid enough to try something like that. After the 38 minutes are up, the Ancients could quickly gain control of the gate and prevent future access until they figured out who attacked them.

                        Also, if they're under attack from orbit and they need to gate in/out they could temporarily extend the shields over the Stargate. It's not so far that it should sufficiently weaken them and as long as they can be sure that they know that their people are the ones dialing in and they don't leave the gate within the limits of their shield after they are done dialing out, they'd be quite safe. However, again, they're the Ancients. During their height, (before the Wraith showed up) if someone attacked them from orbit they likely could have easily dealt with it or been content to hunker down under their superior shields for a few days until their fleet showed up to remove the threat.

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                          #13
                          Originally posted by jfarrell327 View Post
                          But I was speaking about all of the gates. Sure it is possible but it isn't really needed. Not all worlds with the Stargates were inhabited, so why put it on all gates? Not to mention many of the inhabited worlds even knew how to work the stargate, most didn't even know what it was, like the one that thought it was an artifact until it came to life and the MALP came through.
                          None of this is relevant for the Ancients. When the Ancients were around the Stargates were placed on planets they inhabited and they all knew how to work the stargate.

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                            #14
                            The gate networks were to Ancients what roads were to Romans. So what if villagers use them to facilitate their travels to the next town, as long as you have priority to move your armies, patrols, citizens and supplies across your empire. An advancement that benefits all, but mostly those who built them. And when the empire fell they didn't bother removing them. So why would the Ancients? Especially when we know they were not very good at fixing their mistakes

                            They probably replaced the remotes by DHDs knowing others would eventually benefit from these roads but made them complicated enough so primitives wouldn't get hurt. Then we have the four races alliance, Stargate tech was probably part of the deal.

                            Would i improve it? Sure, Id bring back remotes, kinos and spacesuits for us the keepers of the network. If you want a "vpn", move some gates to planetary orbits with nine symbols combo and use jumpers for those, hell, put a gate in every ship so you're always one step from home.

                            But keeping the network from others is a mistake.

                            Some of the best episodes were from "unscheduled offworld activations". But you need shields AND an iris. It wouldnt be ancienty without redundancy

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                              #15
                              So what if villagers use them to facilitate their travels to the next town, as long as you have priority to move your armies, patrols, citizens and supplies across your empire.
                              Roman peasants were (in theory) tax payers and therefore contributed to the overall success of the empire. Allowing them to use roads is not the same as allowing foreigners unfettered access, which is what is the issue here. Sure, the Romans did not have an interest in a total ban on foreigners traveling within the empire, (foreign merchants, for example, benefited the empire) but it wasn't suggested that the Ancients should have a complete ban either (only that they should have a system in place that would allow them to clear or restrict alien access at their purview).

                              And when the empire fell they didn't bother removing them. So why would the Ancients? Especially when we know they were not very good at fixing their mistakes
                              Well obviously the Ancients couldn't have removed them because they were dying from the plague or fleeing from the Wraith. The Romans too obviously weren't in a position to break up miles of roads during an invasion and it did not serve their interests to do so, even if that was remotely feasible, as they either still had to live there after the fall or they fled to the Eastern portion of the empire and hoped that the West would be reclaimed. The thing though is that building roads and bridges, like building Stargates, took a certain degree of specification that was lost in the West after the fall. As a result, they had a lifespan as advanced bridges and roads could not be rebuilt once they fell into disrepair. The same is not true of the Stargates, which were built to last. Thus, although there has only been a single observed instance where someone has been able to build a new one, the gate network can basically be used and abused in perpetuity. What I was suggesting was not that the Ancients should have somehow managed to break the network up while in their twilight, but that they should have had the foresight to realize that they built the gate network to outlast them and that could have devastating consequences since it was an open network. Hence, building in restrictions then would have been the responsible thing to do.

                              That, btw, is not to say they shouldn't want someone to benefit from the gate network after they are gone. For example, I do believe that humans were created and fostered in the Pegasus galaxy in order to claim their place as the successors the Ancients when they were gone. However, obviously the Ancients would have had an expectation that they were at a certain level when that happened and my argument is basically that the Ancients should have made sure that they there could have been a point where they were able to consciously turn over the reigns to their designated successors as opposed to allowing free and open access to the gate network and hoping things work out okay.

                              But keeping the network from others is a mistake.

                              Some of the best episodes were from "unscheduled offworld activations". But you need shields AND an iris. It wouldnt be ancienty without redundancy
                              Don't get me wrong, it's great from a story telling perspective. For the purposes of the show, I absolutely want the Ancients to be shortsighted so that we can get the kind of stories that we did. If the gate network was perfectly secured and everyone had the ability to lock everyone out there would be no show. However, I can both criticize the actions of fictional characters and say it was a good creative decision to make them deserving of criticism.

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