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  1. #81
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Listen (3404/804)

    Quote Originally Posted by rushy View Post
    But for the briefest moment, the fixed point becamed fluxed. Adelaide's suicide wasn't predetermined.
    Wasn't it?
    Pompeii became a non fixed point in time according to that logic due to the interference of the Pyroviles, but that very interference became the reason why the Doctor not only let it blow, but caused it.

    Fixed points are simply that, they WILL happen, no matter what, and the Doctor even says it himself, the more he tries to interfere, the more he causes the event. I'll Agree it's entirely out of character for the doctor, to accept "pre destiny", but I think that's more because the bigger his ego gets, the bigger "smack down" he needs. In the end, all he changed was where Adelaide died, and created the "mystery" of how she got to Earth at all, rather than why she caused the nuclear explosion on Mars.
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
    The truth isn't the truth

  2. #82
    Lieutenant Colonel rushy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Listen (3404/804)

    Quote Originally Posted by Gatefan1976 View Post
    Wasn't it?
    Pompeii became a non fixed point in time according to that logic due to the interference of the Pyroviles, but that very interference became the reason why the Doctor not only let it blow, but caused it.

    Fixed points are simply that, they WILL happen, no matter what, and the Doctor even says it himself, the more he tries to interfere, the more he causes the event. I'll Agree it's entirely out of character for the doctor, to accept "pre destiny", but I think that's more because the bigger his ego gets, the bigger "smack down" he needs. In the end, all he changed was where Adelaide died, and created the "mystery" of how she got to Earth at all, rather than why she caused the nuclear explosion on Mars.
    True, but if he hadn't told Adelaide the truth, she wouldn't have killed herself. Adelaide made the conscious choice to restore the timeline.


    "Change, my dear. And it seems, not a moment too soon." - The Sixth Doctor.

  3. #83
    Colonel Gatefan1976's Avatar
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    Default Re: Listen (3404/804)

    Quote Originally Posted by rushy View Post
    True, but if he hadn't told Adelaide the truth, she wouldn't have killed herself. Adelaide made the conscious choice to restore the timeline.
    She also made the conscious decision to blow up the Mars base without any interference, and no foreknowledge of what that decision would cause.

    Point being, what did the "time lord triumphant" really change?
    ALL THANKS TO THE WONDERFUL CREATOR OF THIS SIG GO TO R.I.G.
    A lie is just a truth that hasn't gone through conversion therapy yet
    The truth isn't the truth

  4. #84
    Lieutenant Colonel rushy's Avatar
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    Default Re: Listen (3404/804)

    He gave Adelaide foreknowledge of her fate and the power to choose.
    Also, it's "Time Lord Victorious".


    "Change, my dear. And it seems, not a moment too soon." - The Sixth Doctor.

  5. #85
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    Default Re: Listen (3404/804)

    So who did the writing on the Doctor's blackboard?

  6. #86
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    Default Re: Listen (3404/804)

    And there really was something on young Rupert's bed. And it didn't look like another kid from the home, even out of focus.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: Listen (3404/804)

    Quote Originally Posted by Quizziard View Post
    And there really was something on young Rupert's bed. And it didn't look like another kid from the home, even out of focus.
    It did indeed........ All the Doctors waffle and bull wasn't convincing.

    But the message about fear was good. But his waffle in that scene was not convincing. There was something there.

  8. #88
    General Blencathra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Listen (3404/804)

    I re-watched this last night. It's just dawned on me that Rupert/Danny Pink was living in the West Country Children's Home, Gloucester, at the same time (early 1990s) that Amy, Rory and Mels were growing up in Leadworth, a short distance away. I don't know if that is of any significance, but it's.... interesting.

    I'm still fascinated by the toy soldier.
    Last edited by Blencathra; August 9th, 2015 at 01:53 AM.

  9. #89
    Probie
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    Default Re: Listen (3404/804)

    I think this was one of my favorite episodes of the season. Hoping to see more of that toy soldier. I think it'd be cool if it had a larger part in Clara's overall story.

  10. #90
    General Blencathra's Avatar
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    Default Re: Listen (3404/804)

    This was a great episode. One of my favourites too.

    I think we will hear more about that toy soldier. There is a big chunk of the puzzle missing. How did that soldier get from the young Doctor and into the toy box at Gloucester Children's home? Did the Doctor put it there? If so, why? Or did somebody else? Again, why? I have my own theory about that.

    I think we will be hearing more about Danny Pink as well.


  11. #91
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    Default Re: Listen (3404/804)

    Ah, but who or what was the creature on the bed?

    And how did that chalk write on the Doctor's blackboard by itself?

  12. #92
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    Default Re: Listen (3404/804)

    Quote Originally Posted by Blencathra View Post
    This was a great episode. One of my favourites too.

    I think we will hear more about that toy soldier. There is a big chunk of the puzzle missing. How did that soldier get from the young Doctor and into the toy box at Gloucester Children's home? Did the Doctor put it there? If so, why? Or did somebody else? Again, why? I have my own theory about that.

    I think we will be hearing more about Danny Pink as well.

    Not everything needs to go full circle. Particularly since the soldier has to have been made in the first place. Chances are it was either a toy the young doctor eventually lost, or it's in the TARDIS somewhere.
    Please do me a huge favour and help me be with the love of my life.

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