Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

[Gatefan1976]

Balance doesn't necessarily mean 50/50. If your body is at homeostasis (healthy) that means your body is healthy. However, it does not mean you are half sick and half healthy! You can't be "I'll kill younglings and save the galaxy" thus half dark and half light. Anakin tried that...

I hope they go beyond 50/50 to explain balance...that's all I'm saying.

No no, there is no Jedi, they are an extreme form of the light, there are no sith, they are the extreme of the dark, there is just the force and the will of the user.

[DigiFluid]

50/50 has never been the official stance on the 'balance of the Force' though. It's the assertion (both in-universe and from George's mouth) that the Light Side isn't just the 'good side' for the sake of left or right or up or down, but that it's the 'good side' because goodness/honour/nobility/selflessness/etc are meant to be seen the natural condition of life itself. Contrarily, the Dark Side is metaphor for corruption, selfishness, greed, etc--evil.

I'm not religious myself, but to draw a comparison: 'balance' is emphatically not meant as 'striving to find the middle ground between Jesus and Hitler.' 'Balance' is meant as being in a state of natural goodness, and not corrupted by the Dark Side.

Caveat: You don't need to be a Jedi to be a believer in/practitioner of the Light Side. They just happen to be its most prominent proponents in this universe.

[garhkal]

Well we know there will be an episode IX, so either it will take two movies to end the Jedi, & the "Skywalker family story", or IX will be totally the aftermath of the end of the Jedi & how the galaxy handles it.

Very interesting.

Well, rogue one proved they can do a DAMN GOOD SW film without having to have it all be about the jedi..

[Gatefan1976]

50/50 has never been the official stance on the 'balance of the Force' though. It's the assertion (both in-universe and from George's mouth) that the Light Side isn't just the 'good side' for the sake of left or right or up or down, but that it's the 'good side' because goodness/honour/nobility/selflessness/etc are meant to be seen the natural condition of life itself. Contrarily, the Dark Side is metaphor for corruption, selfishness, greed, etc--evil.

Sure, but that is the user overriding the will of the force to a degree.

I'm not religious myself, but to draw a comparison: 'balance' is emphatically not meant as 'striving to find the middle ground between Jesus and Hitler.' 'Balance' is meant as being in a state of natural goodness, and not corrupted by the Dark Side.

I am not so sure of that, there is always a bit of Ying in the Yang, but the Jedi and the Sith strive to eliminate even that form of balance.

Caveat: You don't need to be a Jedi to be a believer in/practitioner of the Light Side. They just happen to be its most prominent proponents in this universe.

No, but you need to be a Jedi to...... be a Jedi. Jedi are just one path, a relatively extreme path. and like any extreme path, it all but asks for an opposing force. Luke tried to recreate the Jedi, he created Kylo Ren, that is why there should be no more Jedi, they invite the dark by their very existence.

[aretood2]

No no, there is no Jedi, they are an extreme form of the light, there are no sith, they are the extreme of the dark, there is just the force and the will of the user.

What I mentioned comes from some of the EU sources but mostly fan interpretations of them and comments from those involved in Star Wars. They fall along the lines of your comment. So to me Luke's comment poses some possiblities.

One, he gave up. He found the venture to be pointless, that ultimately Jedi have breed darkside users at times and that at other times were blind to their appearance and that the Galaxy is better off without them. Then enter young Rey. It seems like the "reluctant warrior teacher who gave up" trope.

Two, he found some form of an old old way, an order before that of the Jedi that he feels is a much better path and wants to teach Rey about it. No more Jedi Council or organization. Just a galaxy of force users and a system they can follow.

I'm more of a fan of my first paragraph than the second.

50/50 has never been the official stance on the 'balance of the Force' though. It's the assertion (both in-universe and from George's mouth) that the Light Side isn't just the 'good side' for the sake of left or right or up or down, but that it's the 'good side' because goodness/honour/nobility/selflessness/etc are meant to be seen the natural condition of life itself. Contrarily, the Dark Side is metaphor for corruption, selfishness, greed, etc--evil.

And that would be what I'd lean towards. But how do you account for Bendu's comments in Rebels?

Sure, but that is the user overriding the will of the force to a degree.

*cough*darkside*cough*

I am not so sure of that, there is always a bit of Ying in the Yang, but the Jedi and the Sith strive to eliminate even that form of balance.

So kill one just youngling and then go save the Galaxy?

No, but you need to be a Jedi to...... be a Jedi. Jedi are just one path, a relatively extreme path. and like any extreme path, it all but asks for an opposing force. Luke tried to recreate the Jedi, he created Kylo Ren, that is why there should be no more Jedi, they invite the dark by their very existence.

That's my Number One possibility. But I see as Rey as showing him that it is inevitable that there will be strong force users. The darkside will rear its ugly head and if there is no one to counter it, to bring balance, then you get Supreme Leader Snoke and his merry band of the First Order. We don't really know where the Sith come from in this new cannon. All we know is that for whatever reason, they wanted revenge.

[Gatefan1976]

What I mentioned comes from some of the EU sources but mostly fan interpretations of them and comments from those involved in Star Wars. They fall along the lines of your comment. So to me Luke's comment poses some possiblities.

Look into Lucas's "Journal of the Whills"

One, he gave up. He found the venture to be pointless, that ultimately Jedi have breed darkside users at times and that at other times were blind to their appearance and that the Galaxy is better off without them. Then enter young Rey. It seems like the "reluctant warrior teacher who gave up" trope.

Star wars is full of tropes

Two, he found some form of an old old way, an order before that of the Jedi that he feels is a much better path and wants to teach Rey about it. No more Jedi Council or organization. Just a galaxy of force users and a system they can follow.

The living force perhaps?

I'm more of a fan of my first paragraph than the second.

Sure.

*cough*darkside*cough*

Manipulating events to save a boy who will go on to destroy the Jedi order based on a prophecy?
*cough-lightside-cough*

So kill one just youngling and then go save the Galaxy?

Anakin did not save the galaxy, he destroyed the Jedi order, he did bring balance to the force, from a certain point of view.

That's my Number One possibility. But I see as Rey as showing him that it is inevitable that there will be strong force users. The darkside will rear its ugly head and if there is no one to counter it, to bring balance, then you get Supreme Leader Snoke and his merry band of the First Order. We don't really know where the Sith come from in this new cannon. All we know is that for whatever reason, they wanted revenge.

Sure, but nothing says that they have to be -jedi-. Luke can train Rey, we hear him do it, but that does not mean he will instil the same concepts that Obi-wan and Yoda instilled in him, he will be the last person trained -as a jedi-

[aretood2]

Manipulating events to save a boy who will go on to destroy the Jedi order based on a prophecy?
*cough-lightside-cough*

A boy whose existence in the first place was the result of a Sith's use of the dark side.

Anakin did not save the galaxy, he destroyed the Jedi order, he did bring balance to the force, from a certain point of view.

I distinctly remember a certain Emperor thrown to his death...

Sure, but nothing says that they have to be -jedi-. Luke can train Rey, we hear him do it, but that does not mean he will instil the same concepts that Obi-wan and Yoda instilled in him, he will be the last person trained -as a jedi-

Except the title is plural. The last Jedi as in more than one. So Rey does become a Jedi, unless the title refers to another.

[Gatefan1976]

A boy whose existence in the first place was the result of a Sith's use of the dark side.

If Qui-Gon never manipulated the chance cube, he would never have been freed from slavery. Plagius may have initiated the process, but Qui-gon, then Obi-wan certainly impacted the events based on their choices.

I distinctly remember a certain Emperor thrown to his death...

And?
He had destroyed the Jedi, and in atonement, he destroyed the Sith. Sure there are plenty of darksiders still around, but not sith due to the rule of two.

Except the title is plural. The last Jedi as in more than one. So Rey does become a Jedi, unless the title refers to another.

That's speculative. You might be right, Jedi can indeed be plural, but when your teacher, a jedi says that the jedi must end, I find it hard to believe he would train another in the ways of the Jedi. Also, and this is super nitpicky about the language, I would imagine the title would be "the last OF THE Jedi", rather than "the last Jedi"

[aretood2]

If Qui-Gon never manipulated the chance cube, he would never have been freed from slavery. Plagius may have initiated the process, but Qui-gon, then Obi-wan certainly impacted the events based on their choices.

But was Qui-Gon following the will of the Force?

And?
He had destroyed the Jedi, and in atonement, he destroyed the Sith. Sure there are plenty of darksiders still around, but not sith due to the rule of two.

He saved the Galaxy...right now new cannon would have to fill this part in, but the old canon did establish that it was the emperor's death that allowed "luck" to swing towards the Rebels. Something to do with battle meditation.

That's speculative. You might be right, Jedi can indeed be plural, but when your teacher, a jedi says that the jedi must end, I find it hard to believe he would train another in the ways of the Jedi. Also, and this is super nitpicky about the language, I would imagine the title would be "the last OF THE Jedi", rather than "the last Jedi"

I'm basing it off the Spanish title "Los Ultimos Jedi" The article "los" and adjective "Ultimos" are written in the plural.

[Gatefan1976]

But was Qui-Gon following the will of the Force?

If you open up that, you have to ask if Sideous or Plagius were as well.

He saved the Galaxy...right now new cannon would have to fill this part in, but the old canon did establish that it was the emperor's death that allowed "luck" to swing towards the Rebels. Something to do with battle meditation.

Yes, Old cannon stated that when the emperor died, the imperial troops lost the focus and cohesion that his control provided via battle meditation, so, not so much luck shifting, but a lack of an overall control. You can assume if the emperor employed it all the time, the imperials would come to rely on it to a degree, making the lack of control even more damaging.

I'm basing it off the Spanish title "Los Ultimos Jedi" The article "los" and adjective "Ultimos" are written in the plural.

Not the best way to do it, like English is not the best way to study texts originally in Latin.

[aretood2]

If you open up that, you have to ask if Sideous or Plagius were as well.

Seeing as those powers are unnatural, I'd say it's a pretty good bet that they were not acting on the will of the force. It's not really the Sith way. Besides...do you know AtlantisRules!?

[Gatefan1976]

Seeing as those powers are unnatural, I'd say it's a pretty good bet that they were not acting on the will of the force. It's not really the Sith way. Besides...do you know AtlantisRules!?

Which powers?
And yes, I remember AR

[aretood2]

Which powers?
And yes, I remember AR

The ones Palpatine called unnatural in the theater, the power to create life.

And figures, you're a heretic just like AR-_-

[Teddybrown]

Behind the scenes video

[garhkal]

Man, to see Carrie on set, gave me goosebumps.