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  1. #41
    Colonel Spimman's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    This could be interpreted quite a few ways, I'm with Rob on the view that this doesn't undermine Return of the Jedi.

    Could this be that Luke is the "last Jedi" left at this point? Could this reference that Luke is the last of the "Old Jedi" and signify a shift that will happen when Rey trains? Who knows at this point...
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  2. #42
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    Thing is he wasn't the last of the old jedi, as he is more the First of the new ones.

  3. #43
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    Semantics. If you're the first, but there are no other Jedi, you're also the last until and unless there is someone to succeed you.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  4. #44
    Major General Princess Awinita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    Well set Digi, well said!

    My personal thought on this is that Luke is currently the Last Jedi because there arent any left, there may be other Force traditions out there, but no actual JEDI ORDER; liker Digi said; the Rebellion restored the REPUBLIC not the Jedi Order. So its possible that Luke is the Last Jedi for the moment until he can train more somehow.

    Also shouldnt this thread get stickied and the Episode 7 thread unstickied ? Just wondering

    This is the Assassin's Way part 17 complete

    "Elegant beauty is Nature. but only for the gentle and soft Flower" ~Hu Ge
    "The one thing every new hairstylist must learn is how to do hair in a combat zone!" Bob; owner of Bob & Weave's Combat Salon in Red Dust Club, an original story currently in progress

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    All this speculation, I prefer to wait and see what happens, and what it all means.
    However, that said, 'Jedi' in Return of the Jedi was not a single Jedi coming back, but the return of the Jedi cult/movement as a collective noun. So maybe Luke is encouraged to come back teaching and his trainees are the last Jedi that need to be trained because the baddies are finally defeated for ever.
    Speculation on Ray: When she touched Luke's sabre in TFA she had a flashback, & I presume the little girl was her. In the background we see the Millenium Falcon flying away. Could Ray and Ben be twins? Remember Padame had twins, so if it runs in the family Leia too could have had twins & split them up, fostering Ray & keeping Ben. But I can't see why she would, unless she had a premonition, her 'Force' has not been fully explained, assuming different people have different talents (I never saw Leia waiving a light sabre around) maybe she had a foreboding about Ben.
    There again, Jebi are not supposed to have intimate relationships, so if Luke did have some daliance he could have asked his old friend & brother-in-law to drop the child (Rey) off for her safety, & to keep the Jedi from expelling him. So Ray could be his daughter I suppose.

  6. #46
    Major General aretood2's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Who Knows View Post
    All this speculation, I prefer to wait and see what happens, and what it all means.
    However, that said, 'Jedi' in Return of the Jedi was not a single Jedi coming back, but the return of the Jedi cult/movement as a collective noun. So maybe Luke is encouraged to come back teaching and his trainees are the last Jedi that need to be trained because the baddies are finally defeated for ever.
    Speculation on Ray: When she touched Luke's sabre in TFA she had a flashback, & I presume the little girl was her. In the background we see the Millenium Falcon flying away. Could Ray and Ben be twins? Remember Padame had twins, so if it runs in the family Leia too could have had twins & split them up, fostering Ray & keeping Ben. But I can't see why she would, unless she had a premonition, her 'Force' has not been fully explained, assuming different people have different talents (I never saw Leia waiving a light sabre around) maybe she had a foreboding about Ben.
    There again, Jebi are not supposed to have intimate relationships, so if Luke did have some daliance he could have asked his old friend & brother-in-law to drop the child (Rey) off for her safety, & to keep the Jedi from expelling him. So Ray could be his daughter I suppose.

    Unless they're still pushing the idea that a highly advanced space faring galactic civilization can't detect twins (Or prevent a "mysterious pregnancy death" for that matter)...that begs the question as to why Lea never mentioned it. It'd be a hard secret to keep considering at the time of the pregnancy there would have been no need to keep it a secret and still raise one twin while abandoning the other. I say they are cousins! That's my story. Luke knocked up some lady and didn't know about it. In my perfect world the line "Luke, I am your daughter" would pop up

  7. #47
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    I said I couldn't see why Leia would split them, and if the flashback shot was Rey being dropped off she was old enough to have memories of her parents. So "I am your daughter" does have possibilities. But at the age of the little girl she should also know & recognise her cousin (if that is what Ben is) And if the Force is strong in her & Ben they would know. (Leia has ESP 'cos she knew Luke was hanging off the bottom of sky city)
    But Rey Kenobi (Obi wan's grand-daughter) has possibilities too.

  8. #48
    Major General Princess Awinita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    It was confirmed by the actors and production crews that Ren and Rey arent related; so Liea having twins isnt possible.

    Personally I am of the hope that rey is a Kenobi, its been canon that Obi-Wan either 1 had a fling with the Duchess of Mandalore or 2 his brother had the fling, as we know he had a brother {no it wasnt Owen Lars either}

    This is the Assassin's Way part 17 complete

    "Elegant beauty is Nature. but only for the gentle and soft Flower" ~Hu Ge
    "The one thing every new hairstylist must learn is how to do hair in a combat zone!" Bob; owner of Bob & Weave's Combat Salon in Red Dust Club, an original story currently in progress

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    I can see I have made a mistake in my comments. I thought this thread was based on the Movies 1 through 7. I have not read the comics, or watched the TV series "The Clone Wars" (Don't think it even airs here in Australia). So all these references to Obi Wan's brother & Dutchess of Mandalore are unknown to me.
    I will get my sorry ass out of here & thank hyou for your patience.

  10. #50
    Major General Princess Awinita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Who Knows View Post
    I can see I have made a mistake in my comments. I thought this thread was based on the Movies 1 through 7. I have not read the comics, or watched the TV series "The Clone Wars" (Don't think it even airs here in Australia). So all these references to Obi Wan's brother & Dutchess of Mandalore are unknown to me.
    I will get my sorry ass out of here & thank hyou for your patience.
    No no! Its all good, its all good! Dont mind me, I didnt know you were from Down Under, its my error! You are most welcome here! i am the one who should be aplogising, the mentions of Obi's brother were in a book series, not the TV shows. the Duchess of Mandalore is from the TV series. So sorry for the mixup there

    Again there is no need for you to leave!

    This is the Assassin's Way part 17 complete

    "Elegant beauty is Nature. but only for the gentle and soft Flower" ~Hu Ge
    "The one thing every new hairstylist must learn is how to do hair in a combat zone!" Bob; owner of Bob & Weave's Combat Salon in Red Dust Club, an original story currently in progress

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    This was not a personal attack on you Princess, or on anybody. It is just that I only have the movies to base my speculation on. So when you all are quoting from books, comics, a TV series and other spin-offs I am lost.
    I suppose if the writers of these spin-offs are in charge of writting the new trilogy, then yes, what they have expounded in those spin-offs will become canon in the movies.

    Oh, and I am not leaving, but I might tone down my comments.

  12. #52
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    According to Slashfilm, They Have Been Hearing Rumors about a Teaser Trailer Being Attached to Beauty and The Beast on March 17th
    Last edited by america126; February 24th, 2017 at 07:11 AM.

  13. #53
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    I just learned that the Spanish title is "Los Ultimos Jedi" which makes it plural Jedi. So it's the Last Jedi as in more than one Jedi.

  14. #54
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by aretood2 View Post
    I just learned that the Spanish title is "Los Ultimos Jedi" which makes it plural Jedi. So it's the Last Jedi as in more than one Jedi.
    I saw a similar story about the German translation which had arrived at the same conclusion.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  15. #55
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Who Knows View Post
    This was not a personal attack on you Princess, or on anybody. It is just that I only have the movies to base my speculation on. So when you all are quoting from books, comics, a TV series and other spin-offs I am lost.
    I suppose if the writers of these spin-offs are in charge of writting the new trilogy, then yes, what they have expounded in those spin-offs will become canon in the movies.

    Oh, and I am not leaving, but I might tone down my comments.
    This is a problem with many popular, long running franchises that have been expanded into multiple media formats. People don't have time to follow all of the books & other tie-ins.

    And then there are discussions about what is considered canon in the franchise. I believe there are several levels of canon in the SW franchise, for example, but I'm not familiar with them all. For example, even though Timothy Zahn's books are excellent, and well worth reading, I don't consider them canon because it didn't happen on the movie screen. I think other folks do consider them canon, though.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
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  16. #56
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    And then there are discussions about what is considered canon in the franchise. I believe there are several levels of canon in the SW franchise, for example, but I'm not familiar with them all. For example, even though Timothy Zahn's books are excellent, and well worth reading, I don't consider them canon because it didn't happen on the movie screen. I think other folks do consider them canon, though.
    Star Wars canon is defined by Lucas Licensing.

    Pre-Disney, you are correct, there were several 'tiers' of canon precedence. "G-canon" were the films, which were regarded as indisputably correct, no matter what other sources said. "T-canon" were TV shows, which trumped any 'tier' below, but if they contradicted the movies, it was the movies that were correct. "C-canon" were novels, comics, and video games, which were fine and correct, until and unless they were contradicted by the TV shows or movies, etc. and so on.

    Now that Disney is running the franchise, this is no longer the case.

    As of April 2014, everything filmed, animated, or published, is part of the official canon (with certain obvious exceptions, like the Lego releases). There's no debate, and personal opinions carry no weight--this is the official policy and practice of Disney, Lucasfilm, and Lucas Licensing, and is meticulously managed by the Lucasfilm Story Group.

    Naturally everyone is welcome to read or watch whatever they choose or choose not to, but that doesn't change the official, factual status of the Star Wars universe and its various entries.

    In the new Disney/Story Group era, there is no longer any latitude to complain (as an example) that something in Rogue One wasn't explained, when that explanation was in the tie-in/prequel novel Catalyst--both those releases are officially full and equally weighted contributions to the Star Wars canon. Your (the proverbial you, not you in particular) choice not to read the book is not a failure of the filmmakers. In the Story Group era, skipping Catalyst and complaining that Rogue One confuses you would be no different than skipping Empire Strikes Back and then complaining that you're confused by Return of the Jedi.

    This is not to say that the filmmakers aren't going to try. Certainly, it's in Disney/Lucasfilm's best financial interest to make sure that the movies are as accessible as possible, since they by far are the moneymakers for the studio. And I think they've done an excellent job so far of making sure that the films stand up without needing to read the tie-in materials. But that material does exist, and its status as part of the canon is not in dispute.
    Last edited by DigiFluid; February 19th, 2017 at 07:57 AM.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  17. #57
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    Disney is obviously able to do what they want. But that doesn't mean I have to accept and go by their fiat definition.
    Although I can't think of any off the top of my head, I'm sure there are unsolved paradoxes; things happen in one branch of the franchise that render things that happened in other branches impossible. Just mashing everything together and saying it all fits by executive decree doesn't cut it for me. If it fits, fine, but as far as I'm concerned, the films are canonical authority.
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  18. #58
    Lieutenant General DigiFluid's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Annoyed View Post
    Although I can't think of any off the top of my head, I'm sure there are unsolved paradoxes; things happen in one branch of the franchise that render things that happened in other branches impossible. Just mashing everything together and saying it all fits by executive decree doesn't cut it for me. If it fits, fine, but as far as I'm concerned, the films are canonical authority.
    And you would be incorrect. That is exactly what the Story Group was created for in 2012.

    The 2014 'expanded universe reboot' reduced the canon down to the six "Saga" films, The Clone Wars animated series, and the then-new Darth Maul: Son of Dathomir comic (itself an adaptation of unproduced Clone Wars scripts). Every Expanded Universe book, comic, videogame, etc. released between 1977 and 2014 was shunted off to a separate, non-canon continuity branded "Star Wars Legends."

    Meanwhile every release since 2014 is and has been produced in direct collaboration with the Story Group. If it doesn't fit into what's already been told, or it contradicts what's already been told, it doesn't happen--the writer has to modify it before it's greenlighted to go for publication. Everything "fits," and everything--regardless of medium--has the same creative weight. And these decisions are made by a creative group, not by a board of executives.
    "Not every movie is for you. Not every TV show is for you. Not every song is for you. Find the things you like, and like them. Go nuts liking them. A thing ISN’T for you? Cool. Go find something you like. That’s it. That’s as complicated as it should be." -- David Blue

  19. #59
    Major General Princess Awinita's Avatar
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    Personally I am glad they even got the SG to begin with, up until 2014 when Lucasfilm made the announcement, the whole EU was a complete confusing mess to the new reader or new fan. Nobody knew EXACTLY where to start reading, what series to focus on before starting a new trilogy or whatnot.

    But now with the Story Group formed and going strong, they're actually turning out a pretty good setup of books and comics that I for one am actually starting to enjoy {Shattered Empire for comics, Empire Aftermath {or is it Aftermath Empire ?} trilogy to name a few}

    I am also happy that they're not entirely doing away with the original EU and actually using it as a launching pad, its got a wealth of lore the new writers can draw from, be it characters, planets {Scarif was apparetly mentioned in one of the old Legends books but I cant remember which one, I just see the planet name so dang familar} The roleplaying games by West End Games and Wizards of the Coast are from what I understand, quasi canon, wherein they got some stuff that IS in fact canon matrierals, but stuff that hasnt been wholly introcued formally into the nuCanon {this is quite understandable, please correct me if I am wrong}

    This is the Assassin's Way part 17 complete

    "Elegant beauty is Nature. but only for the gentle and soft Flower" ~Hu Ge
    "The one thing every new hairstylist must learn is how to do hair in a combat zone!" Bob; owner of Bob & Weave's Combat Salon in Red Dust Club, an original story currently in progress

  20. #60
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    Default Re: Star Wars: Episode VIII - The Last Jedi.Spoilers/Discussion/Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by DigiFluid View Post
    And you would be incorrect. That is exactly what the Story Group was created for in 2012.
    There have been Star Wars books since the late 1970's, many of them excellent, and all of which were licensed by the copyright owners. Just because the new owners find that material inconvenient doesn't erase all that has gone before.
    They can call it Legends or Fred for all I care, it's still Star Wars, so they can't really claim that all off screen material is canon. They can make that claim for new material, but the history of the franchise went along with the purchase.
    "It may seem pointless but small talk is a vital dating skill. It helps to establish a rapport with your companion."
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