The Disney Canon

[mandogater]

American Pie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uAsV5-Hv-7U&feature=kp

That's what I was thinking. I just wasn't sure.

[rushy]

*just realizes Kyle Katarn is non-canon*
AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGHHHHHHHH!!!

[The Shrike]

From the manager (EHT) at the Jedi Council Forums:

The official Disney / Lucasfilm position on canon has changed with the announcements regarding the Story Group. Now, essentially, instead of there being multiple levels of canon (and everything having a place within one of those levels), there is just one level of canon, and things either are or aren't canon. What has now been officially confirmed is that all of the movies will be canon, and so will be the Rebels and The Clone Wars TV shows. Expanded Universe material (novels, comics, games, etc.) that will come out after this point will be canon as well, but the EU material that came out before the announcement will not be canon. However, they have stated that they will continue to use that existing EU material for ideas (places, characters, storylines, etc.).

The bolded part is important, since it indicates that anything in the E.U can be used.

Take Daisy Ridley's character for example, she could be Jaina Solo, or she could be the daughter of Han and Leia, who has her father's mechanical aptitude and her mother's Force sensitivity, but with a different name, or she could be someone else entirely.

What the story group has freed themselves of is a situation where if they include a character from the E.U. they'd be obligated to follow their entire storyline as it was written in the novels.

[Gatefan1976]

In other words, they are feeling free to rip off the idea's from some good authors and not feel guilty about it..........

[mandogater]

In other words, they are feeling free to rip off the idea's from some good authors and not feel guilty about it..........

That's what it sounds like to me.

[Sakura]

In other words, they are feeling free to rip off the idea's from some good authors and not feel guilty about it..........

sounds about right

[RTechnik]

Yeah, Disney is just another of the big corporations that rip off ideas from their contractors and still wants them to work for them another time.

And what they should do is release new version of RoTJ with new graphic in the hangar, it looks like big maskirovka with the painted Falcon and other ships.

[P-90_177]

In other words, they are feeling free to rip off the idea's from some good authors and not feel guilty about it..........

Good writers borrow from other writers, great writers steal from them outright.

[The Shrike]

In other words, they are feeling free to rip off the idea's from some good authors and not feel guilty about it..........

There is no reason for Disney to feel guilty about it, they own the rights to those characters. The rights were signed away by the authors when they took the money and accepted Lucas's terms. Lucas sold the rights to Disney, so it's their baby to do with what they want.

[Gatefan1976]

There is no reason for Disney to feel guilty about it, they own the rights to those characters. The rights were signed away by the authors when they took the money and accepted Lucas's terms. Lucas sold the rights to Disney, so it's their baby to do with what they want.

If you are speaking in a strictly legal sense, no, there is no reason for them to feel guilty. I am more than sure that Lucasarts covered their butts in that regard. If however you consider that those authors were operating under the knowledge that they had a free hand, and that there would be no movies post ROTJ (which Lucas was adamant about for some 20 plus years), you can see why those authors, and the fans of their work might be a bit miffed in seeing the EU post ROTJ being reduced to little more than resource material.

[P-90_177]

If you are speaking in a strictly legal sense, no, there is no reason for them to feel guilty. I am more than sure that Lucasarts covered their butts in that regard. If however you consider that those authors were operating under the knowledge that they had a free hand, and that there would be no movies post ROTJ (which Lucas was adamant about for some 20 plus years), you can see why those authors, and the fans of their work might be a bit miffed in seeing the EU post ROTJ being reduced to little more than resource material.

Speaking as a writer myself, I'd be completely fine with that. Any author of the EU has known full well that their work was owned by someone else and that it might be used or changed at any point. They've had the work published which they'll have done more as a labour of love because I can more than guarantee that they have other projects they are known for. They just do it because they're star wars fans and they have been able to write their own stories and have a bit of fun and get paid for it. Their work is still out there. It hasn't been diminished in any way as a work on it's own. And speaking for myself, if Disney end up using an EU character that I created, I wouldn't be miffed, I'd be flattered. If it was a character or a story that I owned then yes I'd be miffed, but with the full knowledge that it never was owned by me, yes, I would be flattered.

[Gatefan1976]

Speaking as a writer myself, I'd be completely fine with that. Any author of the EU has known full well that their work was owned by someone else and that it might be used or changed at any point. They've had the work published which they'll have done more as a labour of love because I can more than guarantee that they have other projects they are known for. They just do it because they're star wars fans and they have been able to write their own stories and have a bit of fun and get paid for it. Their work is still out there. It hasn't been diminished in any way as a work on it's own.

See, I would be inclined to agree with this standpoint, I have read a few other novels from some of the EU authors, and I know many of them a "Genre Authors" who write in the "sandbox" of others. Michael Stackpole, R.A. Salvatore spring immediately to mind. While these two authors, and others have indeed "borrowed" other settings (The Battletech universe and the Forgotten Realms settings respectively for example) they have added immensely to the tapestries of those universes. So too have they added to the rich tapestry that is the SW universe.
This leads to this:

And speaking for myself, if Disney end up using an EU character that I created, I wouldn't be miffed, I'd be flattered. If it was a character or a story that I owned then yes I'd be miffed, but with the full knowledge that it never was owned by me, yes, I would be flattered.

Lucasarts NEVER created the EU stories, or the EU characters, they ARE the unique works of the authors. FASA did not create Phelan Kell, or his stories any more then TSR made Drizzit Do'Urdan. They, and their stories are the product of the authors imagination alone. YES, they exist in someone else's sandbox, but these are not fan fiction stories, they are stamped with the "seal of approval" of the owners of that sandbox. To turn them into no more than resource mines is a bitter pill for some. Even more, one could create an argument that the ONLY reason something like SW has survived to be a multi-generational franchise is on the very backs of those EU authors who kept it alive, and one could make the SAME argument for Dr Who.

Remember, I am not arguing the "legalese" here; Legally all is good and proper, and the owner of the time has the right to dictate whatever they wish, kick what they want, keep what they will. Disney could ALSO kick all the films currently made to the curb as well, it IS within their legal right as owners of the IP, and George Lucas would have no leg to stand on, it's not his sandbox anymore.
Of course, the FANS may be a bit miffed..............

[P-90_177]

Of course, the FANS may be a bit miffed..............

Indeed.... but fans don't matter.

Well they do but generally movie makers aren't making films just for fans, they make them for everyone. You throw in some nice mentions for the fans but beyond that it's more like "what have you done for us lately?"... And Star Wars is still one of those franchises that still gets as many average joes off the street wanting to watch as actual, proper hardcore fans...
Even if every single EU fan out there decided to collectively not see Episode VII because of the outrage, it would barely cause a blip on Disney's radar... partially because a lot of fans will lie to their peers and go see the film anyway regardless of any outrage (but naturally, only on a discount night), but also because at the end of the day, the vast majority of people who will be going to see the films (and many of them really love star wars as much as any card carrying fan) have never even glanced at an EU book.

[Gatefan1976]

Indeed.... but fans don't matter.

Well they do but generally movie makers aren't making films just for fans, they make them for everyone. You throw in some nice mentions for the fans but beyond that it's more like "what have you done for us lately?"... And Star Wars is still one of those franchises that still gets as many average joes off the street wanting to watch as actual, proper hardcore fans...
Even if every single EU fan out there decided to collectively not see Episode VII because of the outrage, it would barely cause a blip on Disney's radar... partially because a lot of fans will lie to their peers and go see the film anyway regardless of any outrage (but naturally, only on a discount night), but also because at the end of the day, the vast majority of people who will be going to see the films (and many of them really love star wars as much as any card carrying fan) have never even glanced at an EU book.

This is all true.
I guess my question is, would Disney have ever bought Lucasarts without the work and dedication of people that they now see as a blip? Would lucasarts even exist? I would wager it only remained commercially relevant due to the advancements of ILM and THX, not for the movies Lucas made post S.W. or I.J.

If commercial viability is the standard of what is "good" or "right", it is no wonder we are inundated with things like "Real Housewives" or "the Kardashians" and "Survivor", and movies have become little more that CGI action orgies with no heart, soul or message. Even when movies with a message are made, the G.P. care more about that "great action sequence" or the "rack/arse on that chick"

[DigiFluid]

This is all true.
I guess my question is, would Disney have ever bought Lucasarts without the work and dedication of people that they now see as a blip? Would lucasarts even exist? I would wager it only remained commercially relevant due to the advancements of ILM and THX, not for the movies Lucas made post S.W. or I.J.

Nitpick: I think you mean Lucasfilm or even Lucas Licensing

I agree with the sentiment though... How many millions upon millions of dollars did they make on the hundreds of comics, on the dozens upon dozens of bestseller-listed novels, on the insanely popular video games? The EU isn't (wasn't) just something that was created to be an idea mine for future plagiarists. It was a living universe which continued the SW universe and continued maintaining Lucasfilm's profitability in the 16 years between trilogies and the decade since Episode III came out.

No doubt Lucasfilm would still have been a pricey and viable property with seven films and several TV series to its name, but the value of the EU to the SW brand and to Lucasfilm's overall worth is/was immeasurable.

Had they chosen to respect the EU and either told a story in the existing framework or else adapted an existing story, they would have won twice over--they would have satisfied existing fans, and everyone knows damn well that tons of 'casual' fans will turn out to see anything with "STAR WARS" stamped on it.

But no. They threw out decades of hard work by hundreds of authors enjoyed by millions of fans--because it was inconvenient for less than ten film writers.