The Disney Canon

[Sakura]

Nitpick: I think you mean Lucasfilm or even Lucas Licensing

I agree with the sentiment though... How many millions upon millions of dollars did they make on the hundreds of comics, on the dozens upon dozens of bestseller-listed novels, on the insanely popular video games? The EU isn't (wasn't) just something that was created to be an idea mine for future plagiarists. It was a living universe which continued the SW universe and continued maintaining Lucasfilm's profitability in the 16 years between trilogies and the decade since Episode III came out.

No doubt Lucasfilm would still have been a pricey and viable property with seven films and several TV series to its name, but the value of the EU to the SW brand and to Lucasfilm's overall worth is/was immeasurable.

Had they chosen to respect the EU and either told a story in the existing framework or else adapted an existing story, they would have won twice over--they would have satisfied existing fans, and everyone knows damn well that tons of 'casual' fans will turn out to see anything with "STAR WARS" stamped on it.

But no. They threw out decades of hard work by hundreds of authors enjoyed by millions of fans--because it was inconvenient for less than ten film writers.

I think Disney's motivation for doing that is: "why work into something that the fans like when we can do whatever the hell we want with our shiny new franchise"

Disney's just plain evil

[P-90_177]

Nitpick: I think you mean Lucasfilm or even Lucas Licensing

I agree with the sentiment though... How many millions upon millions of dollars did they make on the hundreds of comics, on the dozens upon dozens of bestseller-listed novels, on the insanely popular video games? The EU isn't (wasn't) just something that was created to be an idea mine for future plagiarists. It was a living universe which continued the SW universe and continued maintaining Lucasfilm's profitability in the 16 years between trilogies and the decade since Episode III came out.

No doubt Lucasfilm would still have been a pricey and viable property with seven films and several TV series to its name, but the value of the EU to the SW brand and to Lucasfilm's overall worth is/was immeasurable.

Had they chosen to respect the EU and either told a story in the existing framework or else adapted an existing story, they would have won twice over--they would have satisfied existing fans, and everyone knows damn well that tons of 'casual' fans will turn out to see anything with "STAR WARS" stamped on it.

But no. They threw out decades of hard work by hundreds of authors enjoyed by millions of fans--because it was inconvenient for less than ten film writers.

I think really you can equate the EU now to that of the Star Trek Universe. The only things you can consider as canon in star trek is what you see on TV and in film. I think somewhere it has been said that Star Trek Online can be considered canon too but that's only in the sense that it helps to explain the JJ Trek time line. In the Star Trek EU there are some great stories like the New Frontier series, or the Corp of Engineers but they would never be considered truly canon except in the circumstances that had paramount decide to make them into a tv series. Even Star Trek computer games make no sense most of the time in terms of where they fit on the timeline (certainly barely any Activision game doesn't, with the possible exception of Bridge Commander).

Now personally I'm a big fan of New Frontier so I like to imagine that somewhere those character exist in the universe when I'm watching DS9 or Voyager, but I would never expect for those characters in those situations to be considered the word of god. Nor particularly would Peter David, who created the characters n first place consider them to be canon.

At the end of the day, it is unreasonable to expect Disney to stick to the EU at all. Lucas definitely wouldn't have. He never liked the EU to begin with, but yet we talk about Disney as if they are being particularly malicious when all they are doing is making what is most likely the best judgement call from a story perspective.

[Gatefan1976]

P-90
There is one distinct, yet important difference between ST EU and SW EU
Gene Roddenberry NEVER said "I am done, my story is told", George Lucas DID. In purely technical terms, both EU's were always "non canon", and I think we are all aware of that. What is getting my goat at least is, these authors were given free reign, and now they are getting canned for "business reasons"

It's illogical, sure, but fandom is rarely logical.

[DigiFluid]

In purely technical terms, both EU's were always "non canon"

Not so with Star Wars. Everything was canon--subject to the canon hierarchy. Films, TV episodes, comics, novels, video games--everything.

With respect to Trek, nothing beyond what appeared on screens was ever considered part of the canon.

[Sakura]

heres the old canon levels prior to Disney's axe falling on them

G-canon is George Lucas Canon; the six Episodes and any statements by George Lucas (including unpublished production notes from him or his production department that are never seen by the public). Elements originating with Lucas in the movie novelizations, reference books, and other sources are also G-canon, though anything created by the authors of those sources is C-canon. When the matter of changes between movie versions arises, the most recently released editions are deemed superior to older ones, as they correct mistakes, improve consistency between the two trilogies, and express Lucas's current vision of the Star Wars universe most closely. The deleted scenes included on the DVDs are also considered G-canon (when they're not in conflict with the movie).

T-canon, or Television Canon, refers to the canon level comprising the feature film Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the two television shows Star Wars: The Clone Wars and the Star Wars live-action TV series. It was devised recently in order to define a status above the C-Level canon, as confirmed by Chee.

C-canon is Continuity Canon, consisting of all recent works (and many older works) released under the name of Star Wars: books, comics, games, cartoons, non-theatrical films, and more. Games are a special case, as generally only the stories are C-canon, while things like stats and gameplay may not be; they also offer non-canonical options to the player, such as choosing female gender for a canonically male character. C-canon elements have been known to appear in the movies, thus making them G-canon; examples include the name "Coruscant," swoop bikes, Quinlan Vos, Aayla Secura, YT-2400 freighters and Action VI transports.

S-canon is Secondary Canon; the materials are available to be used or ignored as needed by current authors. This includes mostly older works, such as much of the Marvel Star Wars comics, that predate a consistent effort to maintain continuity; it also contains certain elements of a few otherwise N-canon stories, and other things that "may not fit just right." Many formerly S-canon elements have been elevated to C-canon through their inclusion in more recent works by continuity-minded authors, while many other older works (such as The Han Solo Adventures) were accounted for in continuity from the start despite their age, and thus were always C-canon.

N is Non-Canon. What-if stories (such as stories published under the Infinities label) and anything else directly and irreconcilably contradicted by higher canon ends up here. N is the only level that is not considered canon by Lucasfilm. Information cut from canon, deleted scenes, or from canceled Star Wars works falls into this category as well, unless another canonical work references it and it is declared canon.

[DigiFluid]

Copied and pasted from Wookieepedia, I see. I recognize that text

[Sakura]

you've a keen eye sir

[P-90_177]

P-90
There is one distinct, yet important difference between ST EU and SW EU
Gene Roddenberry NEVER said "I am done, my story is told", George Lucas DID. In purely technical terms, both EU's were always "non canon", and I think we are all aware of that. What is getting my goat at least is, these authors were given free reign, and now they are getting canned for "business reasons"

It's illogical, sure, but fandom is rarely logical.

To be fair fandom is an awful, awful thing... and I say that as a massive fan of all manner of sci-fi and fantasy. We spend all our spare cash into tv shows, books, merchandise and conventions... stick all that money into the real world and we would have probably solved world hunger by now... It's true. We are terrible people.

[Flyboy]

No offense to the good stories, but canon should stick to the screen.

Why?

[rushy]

Why?

For starters, it's a lot more easier to keep track of, it's far more mainstream and it offers the widest array of possibilities. Say what you want about a gripping storyline or a magnificient description, great visuals can save a mediocre story, but a great story can be let down by mediocre visuals.

[Annoyed]

Ok, I know, I'm resurrecting an old thread here.

With the release of TFA, it seems to me that they aren't completely ignoring older non-film content. TFA refers to Luke Skywalker going into self imposed exile due to one of his students turning to the dark side and becoming a problem. Although not named, I suspect they're referring to Kyp Durron, one of Luke's first students in his Jedi Academy, as I recall.

Also, from a practical perspective, there have been hundreds if not thousands of off screen Star Wars novels, comics and other non-movie content created over the damn near 40 years this franchise has been in existence. Granting canon status to that body of work would tie the writers hands so they couldn't write anything without contradicting something that someone has written and published.

[DigiFluid]

Also, from a practical perspective, there have been hundreds if not thousands of off screen Star Wars novels, comics and other non-movie content created over the damn near 40 years this franchise has been in existence. Granting canon status to that body of work would tie the writers hands so they couldn't write anything without contradicting something that someone has written and published.

I said that right in the first post of this thread

[P-90_177]

Ok, I know, I'm resurrecting an old thread here.

With the release of TFA, it seems to me that they aren't completely ignoring older non-film content. TFA refers to Luke Skywalker going into self imposed exile due to one of his students turning to the dark side and becoming a problem. Although not named, I suspect they're referring to Kyp Durron, one of Luke's first students in his Jedi Academy, as I recall.

Also, from a practical perspective, there have been hundreds if not thousands of off screen Star Wars novels, comics and other non-movie content created over the damn near 40 years this franchise has been in existence. Granting canon status to that body of work would tie the writers hands so they couldn't write anything without contradicting something that someone has written and published.

Really? It seemed pretty obvious that

Spoiler:

The old Student mentioned was Kylo Ren

[DigiFluid]

Really? It seemed pretty obvious that

Spoiler:

The old Student mentioned was Kylo Ren

That was the whole point of [redacted]'s character in TFA

[Annoyed]

Hmm... Was Kylo Ren a character in some non-film story?

I haven't read any of the recent (10+ years) books that have been released. To be blunt, Although I read at a good clip, it's far too slow these days. I simply don't have time to indulge. A movie can tell a story in 2 hours that can take much longer in book form.