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  1. #1
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    Default Various Model I Stargate Theories

    Hi! Long-time lurker, first-time poster. I've been into the entire Stargate series since the beginning, and have pretty much soaked up the whole thing like a sponge. After watching the Universe series, and noting some inconsistencies, I've tried to come up with some theories to explain them, which seem to make sense to me.

    I don't know if they've been posted before or not. The search function is somewhat less than helpful, so if this has been stated before, please forgive me.

    SGU gates

    -- Model I

    -- Probably made of Naquadah

    -- Don't have a DHD or its power source

    -- Limited range because of above

    -- Can dial galaxy-wide with proper power source and DHD

    -- Destiny's Model I can dial earth with enough power, so this isn't an unreasonable assumption.


    So, you could basically drop a Model I gate into the Milky way, Pegasus, whatever, and hook
    it up to a DHD. It would work just fine within the modern gate system. The differences
    between the gates themselves seem to be almost entirely cosmetic. The Model I gates in the
    Destiny galaxies don't use a DHD, meaning they aren't linked in a galaxy-wide network, thus
    limiting their range. With a DHD and its power source, they should be just as capable as the
    Model II and III gates. Stargate technology must have been basically complete by the time
    these were constructed, with relatively minor refinements, mostly cosmetic, to come later
    on, otherwise the Ancients wouldn't have taken the effort to seed however many galaxies with
    them.


    Theory: Amelius' Model II specifications are the original, but were inherently flawed in some way.
    They were reworked until he arrived at the Model I design. Later on, some unspecified
    improvements were made, and the Model II design was completed, similar cosmetically to the
    original drawings.


    Theory: There may be a number, perhaps several hundred, Model I gates in the Milky Way
    Galaxy and possibly even Pegasus, hooked up to DHDs. It's not farfetched, given
    the immense number of worlds that haven't been explored. They may in fact have 39 glyphs on
    them just like the Milky Way gates, rather than the Destiny-style numerical abstractions.


    Theory: The gates constructed by the seedships are a one-off version of the Model I gates.
    They're designed as general-purpose gates, rather than for specific galaxies. This way,
    they can all use the same symbols in different galaxies. The energy costs of the seed ships
    making DHDs may have been prohibitive, or deemed unnecessary for the purposes of the smaller
    networks.


    Theory: The Berzerker Drones were able to blow a huge chunk out of a Model I gate with
    relatively small weapons, while a Model II gate can take horrific amounts of blast energy
    without even being marked. This doesn't make the Model I gates weaker. It may simply be
    that Naquadah is particularly vulnerable to whatever nature Berzerker Drones' weapons
    possess. A C-4 explosion and a rock slide didn't leave a mark on a Model I, after all,
    which would have more energy than a Berzerker Drone's weapons.
    And they wouldn't be very useful, or have lasted as long as they have, if they weren't as durable
    as their newer-model counterparts. The gate on Destiny would have exploded in spectacular fashion,
    or beenreduced to an inert chunk of metal when they tried to dial Earth if the Model I gates were
    that weak.

    Theory: The Model I planetary gates in the Destiny galaxies aren't made of Naquadah, but
    another, weaker superconductive element. Maybe, maybe not. That still doesn't explain why a
    Berzerker Drone's weapons disabled one gate, but a rock slide and C-4 didn't leave a mark on
    another. If Naquadah was that hard to find, there would be a lot fewer Mark II and III
    stargates around.


    Theory: It doesn't require an Icarus-type planet to dial a 9-chevron address at distances
    like Destiny's. A ZPM may be more than adequate for the task. Obviously, nobody on Earth
    would take the risk, though. They only have a couple, which they really need where they are at
    the moment. Also, the correct 9-chevron address had yet to be found. The Icarus planet
    was uniquely suited to testing this out, as it wasn't really good for anything else.
    Besides, if anything should go wrong with the ZPM, they'd be kind of screwed, or blown to bits
    at worst.

    Theory: The explosion of the Icarus planet had little or nothing to do with the 9-chevron dialing. The
    Lucian Alliance was bombarding the heck out of the planet with their suped-up ships. All
    they'd have to do is get one lucky shot in and cause an eruption in just the right spot, or
    hit the power systems of the base and destabilize them. Then, BOOM. This would also
    explain why everyone was hurled through the otherwise stable wormhole at such high speed.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Various Model I Stargate Theories

    Why do people keep forgetting the Ori Super gate? You know the one powered by the black hole? It's already proven it can dial between galaxies, and it has basically an infinite amount of power.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Various Model I Stargate Theories

    My biggest gripe is the change in gate addressses from the movie version.

    Movie: Each planet has its own set of symbols based on constellations and planet.
    Series: Each planet has an identical set of symbols based on earth.

    Minor thing but it means the 7th chevron is pretty much irrelevant since either its always going to be the same thing i.e. a planet specific symbol that's different on each gate or a generic "origin symbol". Or you can only have a few gates because there are only so many symbols to dial in and you need 6 identification consetellations in addition to the origin point.

    When it was different symbols for each gate the origin symbol isn't as important because you have a whole new set of ID symbols and your origin one so you aren't limited to X gates because each gate has its own code.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Various Model I Stargate Theories

    Hi, I had a thought and dont know if any of these ideas have circulated.

    So the symbols on the gate? 38 factorial that is a big number.
    Seems to me that the DHD in this galaxy were nessary because the dialling in the Pegasus galaxy was done thru interface with the city, puddle jumpers and other means. Which also suggests that the Pegasus galaxy was the older technology. The Destiny galaxy gates were not improved by the ancients exploration, they would have to take their own DHD and power source with them, leaving a generic gate with rudimentary control access. The alpha system is where the ancients lived and exploried more recent, leaving DHD because they did not have the resources they left behind in Pegasus.

    So the three dimension coordinates with the origin are a spacial way of accessing a unique address in a database. Physical place in space matched with a unique database entry.

    Symbols on the gate dont quite line up with 39! but maybe there are not that many gates in the alpha galaxy. So the math works out somethig like 7! * 31 = 156,240. but wate, there is more. (a b c d e f x) is not the same as (b d c a f e x) so even more permutations, again that is a rather large number. Given the constellations as 3d coordinates, would have to be even less combinations as some gates will use the same symbols as other gates and others cannot because they are so remote; the planet wont even see the big dipper, for instance.

    The hart of my thought is each incoming gate has its own unique frequency, say, the vibration that a particular atom vibrates. That would mean that all gates are incoming gates and only become out going gates when the frequency is changed. Einstein called this connection between two atoms of the same frequency "Spooky action at a distance".

    The 3d coordinates and point of oragin, punch into the dialling device connects to a unique database entry, and the mechanism changes the gate being dialed to the same vibratiom as the gate in the database. That alines a wormhole between two identical vibrating gates. That would stop you from being riped appart in transit and you go where you want; assuming you know the database. That also irons out the extra galaxy dialling. the extra galaxy is normally locked out to conserve power connecting to the network but always accessible, given the power is available. Also if an algorithm is used to generate the gate database entry, that will be programed into the next gate to be placed by a seed ship, all gates can always be accssed as long as that gate exists.

    If I sound like a wack job sorry I dont care, but I would like to know whar you think.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Various Model I Stargate Theories

    Good ideas xouty2k.

    I like your concept of frequency alignment of gates via some form of quantum "entanglement" / "coherence". The current scientific literature for your "spooky action at a distance" supports this "entanglement" concept.

    Real world scientific experiments have already proven this quantum entanglement having a statistically measurable effect between entangled particles' quantum states even when they are separated by spatial distance AND TIME too.

    In other words, a particle, say a photon of light, having interacted in the PAST with another particle/photon will have an effect on each other now and in the FUTURE. The crazy thing means FUTURE particles will also have an effect on current and past particles! So quantum entanglement works across vast separation in space AND time too.

    See the wiki here on the unwieldy name of: Delayed Choice Quantum Eraser experiment.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delaye...quantum_eraser


    This is the better conceptual framework for Stargate "addressing" scheme than the 3D coordinates system which is really silly and impractical in the movie. The only "IP addressing" that makes sense with Stargate technology is one using some form of quantum entanglement over vast distances and time.

    There is no one fixed grid or spatial coordinate system to calculate the 3D X,Y,Z coordinates between two Stargates because nothing is truly in a "fixed" position in the universe. Everything is always moving in RELATION to each other, so any 3D coordinate system is not going to be able to track such a network of stargates positions.

    The Universe is constantly expanding and the planets and stars and galaxies and everything else is always moving in relation to each other. The planets spins on its axis ad orbits its star which in turn orbits its galaxy, so if you're on another planet, the computation for their 3D distance between two stargates is a real complicated mathematical headache that changes every microsecond. When you take into account the expanding universe over tens of thousands, millions or billions or years (assuming the Ancient civilization can last that long), any 3D coordinate system database becomes obsolete real fast.

    This also helps explain why the spaceship Destiny needs to go travelling around galaxies to drop-off Stargates. In one scene, there was an assembly line of Stargates in some sort of hanger bay within Destiny. The logical thought is that Destiny probably has some kind of "entanglement" addressing mechanism to first "link" each Stargates and then it drops them off at various locations throughout the galaxy as it flies around in its automated pre-planned route.

    Later generations of the Ancients can then simply dial into each Stargate since there is a whole chain of Stargates "entangled" all the way back to their homeworld, which I assume is where they first built the Destiny spaceships.

    So, viola! After hundreds or thousands of years (depending on how fast Destiny can travel), you get a huge network of Stargates that the Ancients can now use to do their weekend holiday travels :-)

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Various Model I Stargate Theories

    Quote Originally Posted by Senko View Post
    My biggest gripe is the change in gate addressses from the movie version.
    How did you manage to achieve this?

  7. #7
    Captain Xaeden's Avatar
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    Default Re: Various Model I Stargate Theories

    A few things...

    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Miller View Post
    The Model I gates in the
    Destiny galaxies don't use a DHD, meaning they aren't linked in a galaxy-wide network, thus
    limiting their range.
    You're quite possibly on to something here as there was an episode Sg-1 where Carter theorized and then demonstrated that if both gates lack a DHD, they can only dial each other if they are within 300 light years of one another:


    CARTER
    Yeah. We're trying to locate the position of the Aschen home planet.

    JOE
    How can you do that without the coordinates?

    CARTER
    How?

    JOE
    Oh, I asked that question again.

    CARTER
    In my early work with the Stargate program, I theorised that all things being equal, the outside limit per lock between two planets without a DHD is three hundred light years. The computer is searching for viable coordinates within that radius of the Volian system, P3A-194.

    JOE
    Because the Aschen homeworld is somewhere within this area?

    CARTER
    There's a seventy percent probability.


    -2001: Season 5, Episode 10.

    It's an obscure reference, so the writers may not have even remembered this (I have never even seen anyone besides myself point this out in all the times discussions popped up regarding the dialing range in SGU). On the other hand, it's possible that they had this in mind when creating the limitation in SGU.

    There are some issues involved as apparently this means the panel that the Destiny has doesn't count as a DHD. It's also curious that the Destiny can dial Earth since Earth doesn't have a proper DHD either (or, at least, it's not supposed to; that may have changed behind the scenes). For the former, it's possible that the Destiny's DHD is too primitive to serve the same function as the Milky Way DHDs. For the latter, it's possible that the 9th chevron has the capacity to override that limitation somehow, which makes a degree of sense since it's not so much an address as a fixed code (after all, the Destiny is mobile).

    Obviously, this is all highly speculative; the point is simply that I could see them revealing that the lack of DHDs were the problem and, if they did that, there are ways that they could write themselves out of contradictions.

    With a DHD and its power source, they should be just as capable as the
    They have to have a power source, otherwise they couldn't dial. Most likely they are built into a gate's ramp alongside the circuitry that Eli accessed in "Common Descent." If you mean to say that you think their power sources are weaker than the ones DHDs have, it should be noted that the Destiny is capable of storing enough energy to dial Earth. Yet, even at 40%, it can only dial gates within a galaxy that can dial it back. Now, it's possible that the Destiny simply locks out gates that can't dial it back as a safety precaution and Rush had not discovered how to switch that off, but if that bit of information from SG-1 is the source of the problem, then it's all about the DHD and has nothing at all to do with the power source.

    Theory: The Berzerker Drones were able to blow a huge chunk out of a Model I gate with
    relatively small weapons, while a Model II gate can take horrific amounts of blast energy
    without even being marked. This doesn't make the Model I gates weaker. It may simply be
    that Naquadah is particularly vulnerable to whatever nature Berzerker Drones' weapons
    possess. A C-4 explosion and a rock slide didn't leave a mark on a Model I, after all,
    which would have more energy than a Berzerker Drone's weapons.
    And they wouldn't be very useful, or have lasted as long as they have, if they weren't as durable
    as their newer-model counterparts. The gate on Destiny would have exploded in spectacular fashion,
    or beenreduced to an inert chunk of metal when they tried to dial Earth if the Model I gates were
    that weak.
    I think that's a stretch. They had studied the gates for years and determined that gates were indestructible in almost all scenarios. Outside of pouring a ton of energy into gates using an Ancient device, they figured out how to take them out by designing Mark IX gate buster nukes, but a frequency of a simple energy weapon from a tiny drone ship does the trick?

    I doubt that the SGU gates are made of naquadah at all, as per your subsequent theory. You say in both that a C-4 explosion would produce more energy than a drone's weapons, but I don't know what you're basing that off of (my best guess is you're comparing amount of dirt that flies into the air when their energy weapons hit the ground, but those blasts are created using practical effects). A drone's weapon is designed to pack a punch on an enemy ship's shields and hulls. It would be weird to me to find out that they were weaker than a C-4 block.

    By the way, it's possible that SGU gates are made out of different materials. Seed ships may simply go around harvesting materials from asteroids and use whatever they can find to create different mixes. Therefore some gates may be more durable than others.

    Theory: The explosion of the Icarus planet had little or nothing to do with the 9-chevron dialing. The
    Lucian Alliance was bombarding the heck out of the planet with their suped-up ships. All
    they'd have to do is get one lucky shot in and cause an eruption in just the right spot, or
    hit the power systems of the base and destabilize them. Then, BOOM. This would also
    explain why everyone was hurled through the otherwise stable wormhole at such high speed.
    According to Mckay the Icarus planet blew up because Rush's calculations were off. If what you say is the case, the people back on Earth wasted a lot of time between the pilot and the fifteenth episode of season 2 coming up with new calculations that they thought would solve what was really a non-existent problem.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Various Model I Stargate Theories

    My thoughts on this, I posted this about 6 years ago on here.

    The seed ships couldn't possibly carry enough raw materials to make millions of gates to seed across the universe. They most likely have some way of taking raw materials from planets when they drop a gate. These ships have to make the gates out of whatever they find. If all they can find is iron, the gates are going to have to be made of that. They'd probably dump the weaker junk metal as soon as they can find something better, but any gates made with inferior metals would still be used, why expend the time/effort/energy to disassemble a gate just to remake it with slightly better stuff?

    And also any Naquadah that's found would need to be used only for things it's needed for (the internal workings of the gate) since it's pretty rare. Making a whole gate out of Naquadah when you have very short supply is pretty foolish. The Ancients could make the Milky Way and Pegasus gates entirely/mostly out of Naquadah because they had enough. Find a planet with a huge supply and you can keep going back for more. Seeder ships don't have that luxury. They can fill up with as much as they can carry and move on. It's impossible to go back for more as the main mission is far more important than making gates that are stronger that the Ancients may never use anyway.

    The limited amount of Naquadah in the gate could be the very reason they don't have the power to reach very far. Maybe it isn't about how much power they have stored, but how much can be channeled through the gate to make a wormhole.
    This could also explain why one gate takes a hit from a Berserker and is destroyed while another isn't damaged by C4.

    Anyway, I'm obviously right. I did invent the things


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