Spoilers for all eps aired in the USA: The Mentalist - Red John revealed.

[MintSi]

See Ian S' post.He was concerned that you'd be accidentally spoiled for the "reveal",but you're obviously able to see the eps as they air, so that's ok.

Tags don't delete a post.They just cover the content till clicked.

To save any further confusion ,I'll edit/clarify the thread title to let untagged discussion go ahead.

Oops! IC. Thanks for the clarification.

[Coco Pops]

Spoiler:

So McCallister isn't Red John????????

We just had the episode where he had Jane dangling from some rooftop... Now I read about the bomb blast and he's not conscious now I'm confused

[MintSi]

Spoiler:

Yep. ....

This is a correction and partial rewrite mainly to get episode numbers and chronology straight ...

The "Red John" episode broke the 10-minute rule: Anyone nailed as the killer more than about 10 minutes before the end is almost certainly not the killer. After 5 years, you sure as heck do not poof Red John in Episode 8 of the finale season.

So, we know RJ hasn't been killed. (Well, unless we are snowed by the recaps, promos, and apologetic assurances from Heller.)

Still plenty of questions, though. (Like "Who was that woman in the chapel? Why attack Jane and just walk away a few minutes later?")

Then, comes Episode 9 "My Blue Heaven"-- on the island-- and we read "Two Years Later"! (Say What?!) Too much nonsense. Just too cute. Hits you: We're in a darn dream!

In fact, Jane never awoke following the shotgun blast and bomb explosion which ended Episode 6! The whole statewide alert, chasing after Bertram (supposed to be Red John), and everything else in Episode 7 was a dream. The big "Red John" showdown of Episode 8 was a dream, too!

Once we're on the island, we finally figure Jane must be laid up in the hospital-- just like the main character in that mystery Kim was reading: Daughter of Time by Josephine Tey). Jane is in a coma and we are well into his dreaming.

The episode is drenched with clues about what's actually going on. Besides the novel Kim is reading, a very good tipoff is the snarky but harmless 'off stage' criticisms of Jane by the locals (even what they are just thinking about Jane). Typical in-a-dream self-criticisms by the dreaming Jane. And, if we watch that magic trick Jane does for the kids carefully, it's simply impossible. Jane never contacts the boy and the kid has to stretch and dig into his pocket to get the coin.

So, looks like we're into a multi-episode dream quest where Jane discovers himself and where he finally nails Red John.

(Wonder if Jane ever wakes up?)

[MintSi]

Spoiler:

So McCallister isn't Red John????????

We just had the episode where he had Jane dangling from some rooftop... Now I read about the bomb blast and he's not conscious now I'm confused

Guess they're showing re-runs until the next new episode on Jan 5.

Back then, we we supposed to consider the sheriff as a suspect for being Red John.

Now, though, something about Red John has become just about certain: Practically from the start, we've been dealing with two Red John's.

One is the original bloody serial killer-- the 'banally evil', brutal, loser with enough animal cunning to evade arrest.

The other is someone who, very likely killed the original Red John. That person, maybe even before the original was dead, took on the "Red John" name and identity. The new Red John is very different from the loser serial killer: brilliant, clever, and a master manipulator. That Red John is the one with whom we have mostly been dealing all these years. I believe it is Lorelei.

When Heller, other writers, etc. say Red John is dead, they may well be telling the truth: the serial killer RJ is dead. (Could be he's been dead for years; but, maybe not.) Yet, it's a deception, since Red John the-criminal-mastermind is very much alive and yet to be 'officially' revealed.

[Coco Pops]

Guess they're showing re-runs until the next new episode on Jan 5.

Back then, we we supposed to consider the sheriff as a suspect for being Red John.

Now, though, something about Red John has become just about certain: Practically from the start, we've been dealing with two Red John's.

One is the original bloody serial killer-- the 'banally evil', brutal, loser with enough animal cunning to evade arrest.

The other is someone who, very likely killed the original Red John. That person, maybe even before the original was dead, took on the "Red John" name and identity. The new Red John is very different from the loser serial killer: brilliant, clever, and a master manipulator. That Red John is the one with whom we have mostly been dealing all these years. I believe it is Lorelei.

When Heller, other writers, etc. say Red John is dead, they may well be telling the truth: the serial killer RJ is dead. (Could be he's been dead for years; but, maybe not.) Yet, it's a deception, since Red John the-criminal-mastermind is very much alive and yet to be 'officially' revealed.

That may well be. I still think the writers had no idea how to resolve it.

[MintSi]

That may well be. I still think the writers had no idea how to resolve it.

Don't know about the other writers; but, I'm more inclined to believe the ending was pretty well set in Heller's mind from the start. The hard part was 'filling in' with episodes until it was time to connect up with the already mapped out series conclusion.

[MintSi]

Interesting thing about the last episode is that, of all the dream episodes (those following the bomb blast episode), it most appears to be a straight 'cop show'. Nothing about what we consider to be "content"-- the 'storyline'-- appears to indicate we are watching Jane's dream.

"White Lines" begins with a drug cartel hit on a DEA office in Corpus Christy and the killing of 5 DEA agents. Jane, along with Lisbon, Cho, and Kim, is dispatched from Austin FBI HQ to investigate.

While the team follows a trail of standard 'police clues', Jane zeros in on Crystal, attractive ex girlfriend of a deceased suspected Gulf Coast Drug Cartel kingpin.

The team finds the shooters-- all killed-- and uncovers a power struggle within the cartel involving Paco, suspected current head of the cartel. Jane, meanwhile, is involved semi-romantically with Crystal, who we soon discover (but unbeknownst to Jane) is the mastermind boss of the cartel!

Crystal's involved in eliminating Paco (and his men) as her connection to Columbia in order to make the connection directly to her. That was the idea behind the attack on DEA and clues leading to Paco as leader. And, it works!

Paco, on the run from the police and FBI confronts Crystal about the frame. She kills his gunsel and captures him. Crystal wraps things up by shooting Paco in a vacant house, an anonymous call to the police, and having her gunsel set up an apparent Paco shootout with arriving cops leaving Paco to be found dead as supposedly the result of police gunfire.

Cho, however, discovers evidence of another shooter (Crystal's gunsel) at the scene. Lisbon and Kim are putting things together and, upon viewing an earlier mirror cam video, notice that Crystal happens to be present in the DEA office perhaps in relation to the inquiries about her deceased boyfriend! When Crystal walks up to the mirror to put on lipstick and is obviously looking into the spot of the hidden camera's location, everything clicks. Lisbon and Kim know Crystal is the cartel Boss!

Jane, of course, has pretty well known from the start. In a romantic meeting on one of Crystal's boats he tells her so. Crystal confirms his conclusion and pulls out a gun to shoot Jane, whereupon Jane points to his cellphone and informs her that the conversion is being monitored by the FBI who just about to arrive "right about now!" Oops! Nope. But, then, we hear helicopter blades, Crystal is distracted, Jane jumps to safety in the water, and, in the glare of helicopter lights Crystal has to surrender.

Voila! Nice neat kind of fun cop show. No dream. Obviously, Jane is well enscounced as the FBI's Mentalist heading into future brilliant crime busting.

EXCEPT, the episode is riddled with blatantly ridiculous production and continuity screwups.

- The shooters blast every glass thing in the DEA office to shards except the big mirror hiding a third mirror cam-- don't even check behind it-- and then proceed to remove their masks.

- The cops arrive at Paco's supposed hiding place with sirens blaring. After exchanging just a few rounds with 'Paco' (Crystal's hidden gunsel), they wait a few seconds and decide it's okay to run across the lawn and burst into the house through the (carelessly unlocked) front door.

- At one point after coming back to Austin HQ from Corpus to get the names of the shooters from the FBI computer geek who's ID'd mirror cam pics (no phones in Texas), Lisbon talks about checking on something back in Corpus. Cho asks "Wanna take a ride to Corpus?" Lisbon says 'sure' and they're off. Ummmm -- that's a 220 mile drive! With San Antonio along the way, just the one ride will burn at least 3 hours.

Something you'll notice is that throughout the episode is stuff like Jane talking with Crystal in Corpus in one scene and asking for opinions of Lisbon and Kim on the right shirt to wear in Austin FBI HQ in the next. Blatantly and up front, it happens with nearly all the main characters several times.

Corpus, one supposes, is just across the street from Austin!

And, actually, it is ... in your dreams.

[Ian-S]

I don't understand your thinking behind this being all a dream, continuity has never been TV's strongest quality, especially when it comes to locations, but that doesn't mean to say it's all a dream - have I missed an announcement from the producers or cast that indicates it is just a dream?

[MintSi]

I don't understand your thinking behind this being all a dream, continuity has never been TV's strongest quality, especially when it comes to locations, but that doesn't mean to say it's all a dream - have I missed an announcement from the producers or cast that indicates it is just a dream?

No announcements I know of; in fact, Heller and associates staunchly back the whole business of Red John's demise at Jane's hands.

Been lots of talk by Heller and Simon Baker about the focus now being on Jane's 'new life'. How will he adjust now that his all-consuming quest to dispatch RJ is finished? Will he find love, like maybe with Lisbon? ... Bunches of important meaningful thrilling brand new stuff ahead!

Whatever.

Actually rigging a false climax just 8 episodes into the last season of the series and selling it! Pretty nice snowjob. Naturally any comment from Heller or Baker is going to support the deception.


Sure, TV drama episodes mess up on continuity and other things here and there, but, really ...

- Jane is in a room with a bomb blast and the next day he shakes off the cobwebs and is ready to take charge of chasing the evil Bertram?

- Jane, a mere consultant, makes the statewide press announcement of Red John's identity?

- In the chapel how does Jane manage to have a gun hidden beneath a bench?

- In that trick for the kids on the island, Jane gets the coin into the kid's tight jeans pocket without ever contacting him?

- A guy in the FBI computer pool spends lunch break to look for Jane in NYC using satellites and finds him?

- Police arrive to grab a killer reported in an empty house with sirens blaring?

...

Just a sampling of many supposed 'slipups' and/or outright nonsense situations.

Remember that scene just before we see the bomb blast where Jane has the shotgun on the suspects and is telling them how Red John slipped up and Jane knows he has a tattoo on his arm? Well, the "on the shoulder" part was dubbed-in later (listen and you can tell it's a dub) because otherwise we might wonder how the suspects would know to show their shoulders.

Doesn't sound like a series prone to making bunches of gross production mistakes.

Seems clear the supposed reveal and killing of Red John was a fake. We are in a dream.

[MintSi]

Something else.

The key to unraveling a lot of what's going on is the faked Red John killing of Lorelei. She was grabbed by the Feds who staged the murder scene. (Jane spotted the fake.)

So, the video supposedly naming the suspects on Jane's list was done while in Fed custody and the names came from Lorelei.

Jane never had a valid list and accepted Lorelei's list. When Lisbon arrived Jane had pics of the suspects ready to show her from a folder for 'his list' as proof Red John was 100% right.

Which explains why, in the dream, Jane glosses over asking Red John about his amazing 'psychic' feat. (The writer's could not plausibly explain it. For sure they would not let out that Lorelei's death was faked.)

...

[MintSi]

I don't understand your thinking behind this being all a dream, continuity has never been TV's strongest quality, especially when it comes to locations, but that doesn't mean to say it's all a dream - have I missed an announcement from the producers or cast that indicates it is just a dream?

No announcements I know of; in fact, Heller and associates staunchly back the whole business of Red John's demise at Jane's hands.

Been lots of talk by Heller and Simon Baker about the focus now being on Jane's 'new life'. How will he adjust now that his all-consuming quest to dispatch RJ is finished? Will he find love, like maybe with Lisbon? ... Bunches of important meaningful thrilling brand new stuff ahead! (in the remaining 14 episodes)

Whatever.

Actually rigging a false climax just 8 episodes into the last season of the series and selling it! Pretty nice snowjob. Naturally any comment from Heller or Baker is going to back up the trickery.


Sure, TV drama episodes mess up on continuity and other things here and there, but, really ...

- Jane is in a room with a bomb blast and the next day he shakes off the cobwebs and is ready to take charge of chasing the evil Bertram?

- Jane, a mere consultant, makes the statewide press announcement of Red John's identity?

- In the chapel, how does Patrick arrange for a gun to be hidden under a bench?

- In that trick for the kids on the island, Jane gets the coin into the kid's tight jeans pocket without ever contacting him?

- A guy in the FBI computer pool spends lunch break to look for Jane in NYC using satellites and finds him?

- Police arrive to grab a killer reported in an empty house with sirens blaring?

...

Just a sampling of many supposed 'slipups' and/or outright nonsense situations.

Remember that scene just before we see the bomb blast where Jane has the shotgun on the suspects and is telling them how Red John slipped up and Jane knows he has a tattoo on his arm? Well, the "on the shoulder" part was dubbed-in later (listen and you can tell it's a dub) because otherwise we might wonder how the suspects would know to show their shoulders.

Doesn't sound like a series prone to making bunches of gross production mistakes.

Seems clear the supposed reveal and killing of Red John was a fake. We are in a dream.

[Skydiver]

Or the show has jumped the shark so badly no one cares anymore.

[Coco Pops]

Or the show has jumped the shark so badly no one cares anymore.

I think this is the best answer

[MintSi]

Or, for some weird reason, lots of people actually expect that Heller would go to the trouble of setting up an illusionary storyline and then do anything in his comments except back the illusion.

There's a pretty nice clue in that conversation Jane has with McAllister in the chapel. This snip comes from the Mentalist Wikia recap of the "Red John" episode ...

Patrick admits that he does not know how Red John had obtained his list of suspects, but he does know how the bomb was pulled off. He says that there were two explosions, a concussion bomb first, followed by a lethal bomb that was only set off after Bertram, Smith and Patrick were dragged out of the way, killing Stiles and Haffner. Red John confirms this.

So, we are supposed to know how come Jane was not harmed by the big bomb explosion-- the one we see witnessed by Lisbon.

Except, there's no such thing as a safe, harmless concussion bomb. And, we don't know who pulled out McAllister and Jane and the other two. (With Jane holding a shotgun on everyone, McAllister was stuck in the room with everyone else who supposedly got knocked out by the concussion bomb.)

And there's the cruncher: Is the first loud sound we hear from outside-- the one before Lisbon arrives and the big bomb explodes-- made by any sort of concussion bomb? Nope. It's a shotgun going off, plainer than anything.

There we have it. Solid evidence the whole episode happens in Jane's dream.