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  1. #81
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
    River being Tasha works perfectly... right up until the point where you remember the line where she asks the Doctor about his new body, and he replies 'please.... this old thing? I've been rocking it for centuries'. She wouldn't have asked that if she was River.
    But it still might work if Tasha is River very recently post library? Maybe as I suggested the stored River in the Library computer becomes Tasha and the church and finds a way to get out of the computer from there..

  2. #82
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Pops View Post
    But it still might work if Tasha is River very recently post library? Maybe as I suggested the stored River in the Library computer becomes Tasha and the church and finds a way to get out of the computer from there..
    Library River has already met Eleven though.


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  3. #83
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
    Library River has already met Eleven though.
    But maybe this is even before that in her timeline not his? timey wimey and all that jazz

  4. #84
    Captain tomstone's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Pops View Post
    But maybe this is even before that in her timeline not his? timey wimey and all that jazz
    Well, she had a screwdriver in the Library and I thought it was Eleventh. I guess Twelve could have given it to her as well, still it does not quite fit.
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  5. #85
    Major General iiradned's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by tomstone View Post
    Well, she had a screwdriver in the Library and I thought it was Eleventh. I guess Twelve could have given it to her as well, still it does not quite fit.
    It was the 10th Doctor that saw River die in the Library and it was with the 11th Doctor she had her dates and married. It was also the 'murder' 11th Doctor for which she was imprisoned in Stormcage.

    In The Silence in the Library and Forest of the Dead River said that the last time she was with the Doctor was on their date at the Singing Towers of Darillium and it was after this date that she received her 'upgraded' sonic screwdriver.

    In the Series 6 DVD/Blu-ray extra Last Night shows River and the 11th Doctor just before setting off for this date.
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  6. #86
    Major General iiradned's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Coco Pops View Post
    But maybe this is even before that in her timeline not his? timey wimey and all that jazz
    River timeline starts with her birth as Melody Pond at Demons Run followed immediately afterwards by Kovarian kidnapping her taking her to Earth to grow up. Next in her timeline is as the little girl in The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon which also included her first regeneration. There followed an unknown time which ended when she again regenerated into Mels, Amy's best friend growing up in Leadworth which ended in her regeneration into River Song in Let's Kill Hitler.

    In the ending of Closing Time just before River is put in the Apollo spacesuit that emerges from Lake Silencio, Kovarian says that she has always known exactly where Melody/Mels/River was ever since she escaped her first spacesuit in The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon.
    Stargate is life, Sam and Jack are happiness, Shippers are almighty!
    loves and loves right back.

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    It's an immutable law of the multiverse.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Although I can't find any fault in all the logic, I think I now need a lie-down....

  8. #88
    General maneth's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    I liked this one, even if the intersecting timelines have me confused most of the time.
    http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v106/manephelien/avatars/deadtribbles.jpg

  9. #89
    Brigadier General SaberBlade's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by iiradned View Post
    River timeline starts with her birth as Melody Pond at Demons Run followed immediately afterwards by Kovarian kidnapping her taking her to Earth to grow up. Next in her timeline is as the little girl in The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon which also included her first regeneration. There followed an unknown time which ended when she again regenerated into Mels, Amy's best friend growing up in Leadworth which ended in her regeneration into River Song in Let's Kill Hitler.

    In the ending of Closing Time just before River is put in the Apollo spacesuit that emerges from Lake Silencio, Kovarian says that she has always known exactly where Melody/Mels/River was ever since she escaped her first spacesuit in The Impossible Astronaut/Day of the Moon.
    The regeneration of the little girl at the end of Day of the Moon was Melody becoming Mels. We see the young girl (presumably this is the original Melody) regenerate in New York six months after the moon landing. When Mels regenerates into River Song, she says the last time it happened she "ended up a toddler in New York". That would have been January 1970. They just didn't explain how she went from a toddler in New York at the start of the 70s, to a 7+ year old girl in Leadworth sometime during 1996 (although probably more like 12 going by the young Amelia in the scenes since they sort of screwed the years early on).

    Realistically and without screwing up any timelines or more "I lie" crap, the only hidden regeneration River could have had was between Melody in 70s New York and Mels in Leadworth during the 90s, but as she said she was in New York when that regeneration happened, still wouldn't explain how she got to England as a toddler, or who was raising her.



  10. #90
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    I suspect that a toddler who is actually as smart as an adult can get away with an awful lot. People make so many assumptions about kids, especially young kids, it would be easy to do. Especially so far ago (before all the rules got tightened).

  11. #91
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Tasha can't be from a point befor the impossible astronaut or demons run, or any of this story, since they talked about the psycopath wou was created to kill the doctor. So if the is a conection to River, it must be post library, though a regeneration after she died seems as unlikely. She could be from an alternitiv universe of course, but I don't think they open up that stuff again. If they did, anything would be possible, if you could just switch beween dimensions. this would be much worse than the usual timey-wimey stuff. So forget this idea.
    Nobody asked me, if I wanted to live. So don't anyone tell me how I shoul lead my life.

  12. #92

    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    I will miss Matt Smith

  13. #93
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Here's an interesting discussion from another forum.

    Is Tasha Lem River Song Discussion

  14. #94
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Question.

    The Doctor says that he cannot regenerate anymore and will die on Trenzalore before the Time Lords dose him up with a new regeneration cycle - Yet, in The Day of the Doctor, he met a future incarnation of himself who was reliving past faces (Tom Baker) and went to save Gallifrey with another future incarnation (Capaldi).

    ...Was the Doctor just being forgetful? I was under the impression that the Eleventh Doctor was the only one who retained his memories from the events of The Day of the Doctor...
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  15. #95
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Mappalazarou View Post
    Question.

    The Doctor says that he cannot regenerate anymore and will die on Trenzalore before the Time Lords dose him up with a new regeneration cycle - Yet, in The Day of the Doctor, he met a future incarnation of himself who was reliving past faces (Tom Baker) and went to save Gallifrey with another future incarnation (Capaldi).

    ...Was the Doctor just being forgetful? I was under the impression that the Eleventh Doctor was the only one who retained his memories from the events of The Day of the Doctor...
    Eleven was the only one to retain his memory of most of the events. Being the 'senior' Doctor, the Curator will remember the meeting in the Gallery, but Eleven will not.

    Far more interesting is the ability of Twelve (Capaldi, to clarify) to join the fight to save Gallifrey. Technically this was only made possible by the very fact that they DID save Gallifrey. Wibbly-Wobbly and all that jazz, but it explains why Twelve was the last to join the fight, but realistically he shouldn't have been present when you consider that it's all one great big paradox.

    As Eleven thought he would die and wasn't sure if Gallifrey HAD been saved, I can only suggest that the full memory of saving Gallifrey, and indeed, Twelve's presence, was not entirely remembered precisely because of Twelve's presence...


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  16. #96
    Molly Hooper Sealurk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    I think the underlying reason - and this is pure speculation - is that the idea that the Doctor in Time of the Doctor is the last incarnation of the original cycle was only decided upon then, and hadn't been properly set up or agreed upon prior to that episode. In Nightmare in Silver the Doctor threatens to regenerate to burn out the Cyberiad (though admittedly this could have been an empty threat, or the Doctor has the capacity to start the regeneration process but would be unable to finish it).

    In universe, the reason could be that future incarnations are possible but not guaranteed, and he was in fact meeting a potential incarnation rather than a definite one. It could even be argued that the Doctor wasn't aware or sure that the Tenth Doctor's second regeneration counted and so there was perhaps the possibility of at least one more regeneration until he perhaps determined for certain that he was the last prior to TotD.

    It's all very tenuous, and it's one of my problems with ToTD. Still, decent enough episode.
    And now it's time for one last bow, like all your other selves. Eleven's hour is over now... the clock is striking Twelve's.

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  17. #97
    Molly Hooper Sealurk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Hmm, apologies for the double post. Probably a time clone, the result of a paradox generated by two versions of myself trying to say different things at the same time resolving itself and causing the forum software to go a bit haywire.

    That or I'm just an idiot.
    Last edited by Sealurk; February 3rd, 2014 at 10:18 AM.
    And now it's time for one last bow, like all your other selves. Eleven's hour is over now... the clock is striking Twelve's.

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  18. #98
    Colonel Flyboy's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Sealurk View Post
    I think the underlying reason - and this is pure speculation - is that the idea that the Doctor in Time of the Doctor is the last incarnation of the original cycle was only decided upon then, and hadn't been properly set up or agreed upon prior to that episode. In Nightmare in Silver the Doctor threatens to regenerate to burn out the Cyberiad (though admittedly this could have been an empty threat, or the Doctor has the capacity to start the regeneration process but would be unable to finish it).

    In universe, the reason could be that future incarnations are possible but not guaranteed, and he was in fact meeting a potential incarnation rather than a definite one. It could even be argued that the Doctor wasn't aware or sure that the Tenth Doctor's second regeneration counted and so there was perhaps the possibility of at least one more regeneration until he perhaps determined for certain that he was the last prior to TotD.

    It's all very tenuous, and it's one of my problems with ToTD. Still, decent enough episode.
    And this is why RTD will always be that ****ing bastard that wasted a God damn ****ing regeneration.

    And also why Moffat, god as he is, is a bastard for not getting Eight to be the 'other Doctor' in DotD. As wonderful as Hurt was, I'd have rather have seen Eight pushed to the edge of reason...


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  19. #99

    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Admiral Mappalazarou View Post
    Question.

    The Doctor says that he cannot regenerate anymore and will die on Trenzalore before the Time Lords dose him up with a new regeneration cycle - Yet, in The Day of the Doctor, he met a future incarnation of himself who was reliving past faces (Tom Baker) and went to save Gallifrey with another future incarnation (Capaldi).

    ...Was the Doctor just being forgetful? I was under the impression that the Eleventh Doctor was the only one who retained his memories from the events of The Day of the Doctor...
    I think it probably falls more into the "Moffat writes these big complicated stories, gets stuck on something and then just hits the UNIVERSAL RESET BUTTON" and then just flows from there"
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  20. #100
    Molly Hooper Sealurk's Avatar
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    Default Re: The Time of the Doctor

    Quote Originally Posted by Flyboy View Post
    And this is why RTD will always be that ****ing bastard that wasted a God damn ****ing regeneration.

    And also why Moffat, god as he is, is a bastard for not getting Eight to be the 'other Doctor' in DotD. As wonderful as Hurt was, I'd have rather have seen Eight pushed to the edge of reason...
    Absolutely agreed.

    Then again, if Eccleston had agreed to do the special, we'd never have needed the War Doctor and Eleven would still be... well, Twelve. Capaldi would have been the last Doctor of the original cycle, and his search for a way of extending his life or acquiring new regenerations now that he has a purpose and a mission to live for could have been a superb long term arc. Ah well.

    Still, in either the Eighth or Ninth Doctor's place we got Hurt's War Doctor who was brilliant, if sorely underused and underdeveloped, showing Moffat's capacity to make the best of a bad situation. I think Eleven actually being the final Doctor was something similar, turning a problem caused by both the lack of Nine or Eight and Ten's extra regeneration into an opportunity to tell a decent story (even if I think the solution was a bit deus machina).
    And now it's time for one last bow, like all your other selves. Eleven's hour is over now... the clock is striking Twelve's.

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