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  1. #21
    Lieutenant Colonel Amara D'Angeli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSam View Post
    Dedication for what cause?
    To get the source blood to fight the Cabal instead of to use for his own purposes.


    Crick? I feel I should know this but it just isn't coming to me.
    Watson & Crick. The DNA guys.

    What are your thoughts on "The Five"?
    I'm not sure I have thoughts on them as a group, really. I think it's an interesting concept that these five people have lived so long and been so influential throughout history (even if it's history people aren't [yet?] aware of). From what I've read, Season 2 will deal with the members of The Five a little more than season 1 did, yeah?
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  2. #22
    Captain JanSam's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Amara D'Angeli View Post
    To get the source blood to fight the Cabal instead of to use for his own purposes.
    Yes, well we'll have to discuss this more later......

    Quote Originally Posted by Amara D'Angeli View Post
    Watson & Crick. The DNA guys.
    THANK YOU for the links!!! And now I remember why it sounded familiar. If I remember right they mention Crick in a later episode.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amara D'Angeli View Post
    I'm not sure I have thoughts on them as a group, really. I think it's an interesting concept that these five people have lived so long and been so influential throughout history (even if it's history people aren't [yet?] aware of). From what I've read, Season 2 will deal with the members of The Five a little more than season 1 did, yeah?
    Late Season 2 but more so in Season 3. Great episodes too IMO.
    http://forum.gateworld.net/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=8226&dateline=1311902876

  3. #23
    Brigadier General fems's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    I finally got around to watching Revelations! I wasn't sure whether you meant just episode 13 or also 12 (since it's a two-parter), so I'm watching 12 now and follow it up with 13.

    I had forgotten how much I missed this show! Also really like the tone of the first season and the interaction of The Five.

    *goes back to watch*
    Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
    Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
    On FFnet or AO3


    My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories. /

  4. #24
    Lieutenant Colonel Amara D'Angeli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    I'm completely done with Season 1 now. I'm so excited to watch the Season 2 premier tomorrow.
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  5. #25
    Brigadier General fems's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    Just finished part 1 and really enjoyed it. I'd forgotten how annoying Clara! But I did like this early Will much, much better. At least here he still behaved like a protege and used his brain/observing skills, later he just bored me and reminded me of a whining child. It's good to see him like this, if only to remind myself that he was once a likable character!

    I also enjoyed seeing Magnus' maternal side a few times in scenes with Ashley and/or Henry. A lot of that is gone by the end of the show, which is a shame. James told her that she isolated herself but I think she was more open here than later on. Not that I can blame her considering the life (or lives, really) she's lived and how many people she has lost/will lose.

    Oh and the scene with James and John talking about the Ripper case! Ahh, that was always one of my favorite scenes. Like I've already mentioned, I really started disliking the character of Will later on and, in my opinion, a lot of that was also down to the actor's inability to, well, act and the show had to rely on the other characters (actors) to carry him through. John and James were perfect characters (and their actors are some of the best on this show!) and I just loved their interaction, although I can see now what you meant about John earlier, Amara. There will be more scenes (both past and present) between him and Helen which, I think, really gives you a great insight into their love for each other and the relationship they have/had.

    Now, onto part 2.
    Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
    Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
    On FFnet or AO3


    My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories. /

  6. #26
    Brigadier General fems's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    Okay, I will write part 2 as I'm watching it. Here goes...

    Argh, Clara with her annoying questions. I do wonder why she even bothered to come with them considering her attitude.

    John and James arguing is fabulous as always! They've got some great lines and I really liked James' comment about how John would perk up if there was a, uh, working girl around for him to kill. There's also something about CH's voice that I love, like when he says "Old boy" in that low, almost threatening tone. *sigh*

    Poor Henry! I feel so sad for what he had to go through. That doctor is very creepy as well, great job by the actor.

    Again, I really like the special effects they used to show us what Will and James are discussing when they imagine the city. It's too bad they abandoned it after, well, this season, I think. The way James is 'teaching' and testing Will is enjoyable and I think Will might have become a far more enjoyable character if he'd been James' protege! No offense to Magnus, of course. But hey, Declan was a pretty great guy too! Although I don't recall whether he was actually trained by James...

    Nikola!

    I really like this character too. He's a bit more of an arrogant ass here but I still like him. His remarks to/about Will [being disposable] are always funny, too. Again, it's implied here that John is only alive today because of Helen's blood prolonging his life/curing him, something that seems to be called into question later on so it's good to know I wasn't imagining things.

    Dana is an interesting villain too. Too bad Ashley is quick to 'trust' her. I mean, they have this super technology company and yet she thinks they can't poison a drink, or make it (and its can) themselves?

    Again, poor Henry! I must say that the CGI in this show isn't always superb but his (partial) transformation is looking really good, especially if you compare it to current shows like Grimm.

    Heh. The interaction between Magnus and Nikola is always great and I like his little one-liners as well. The boys' competition for Magnus' affection never ceases to amuse me and unlike many other TV shows it's handled nicely without being too much, in my opinion. Not just this episode but throughout the entire show. And I'm not all that big a fan of love triangles/quartets/quintets (?) normally, so that's saying something.

    You know, I've always wondered (keeping in mind future events, like what was implied in Normandy) what John was going to say about Gregory seeing him and James as friends, not enemies as it "was before..." and James interrupted him. It could just be their natural fallout after John became Jack the Ripper and they ended up on opposite sides, but there may have been more to it...

    Will is such an idiot. Did he really have to hold out his hand to lose three or more stepping stones before coming to the conclusion of what the test was all about? It was pretty obvious and he's supposed to be such a smart guy! Clara is again being a whiny little... but I guess that's supposed to be cute, or something. It's not like she's the only twenty-something female that has similar traits on this show (well, at the moment she is but not in the future).

    The brief talk between Magnus and Nikola was nice and gave us, the viewers, a great explanation of the test and how much Nikola could handle. I really loved how he was all "well this might kill me" and then straightened his jacket and just walked into the tunnel all determined! It brings a smile to my face every time because I would have expected any normal person to run into it or something, in the hopes of getting on the other side faster!

    Henry is indeed "awesome"! Even though he was forced into transforming by the Cabal, him actually using his powers to escape is such an important turning point for him!

    Nikola made it! It's great to see that even though The Five are all bickering and being snarky to each other when they're together, they still care about each other as evidenced by the concern on Magnus' face while Nikola is going through the tunnel. It also wouldn't surprise me if Gregory had paired him up with Magnus because he knew her presence would spur Nikola on and not give up. After all, Nikola had apparently already attempted to get his key several times but he only succeeded with her waiting for him. His remark about her father not liking him always gets a chuckle out of me (especially with the smoke still coming off his clothes)!

    James questioning John about his victims made me wonder if this was the first time they'd seen each other since the revelation of John being Jack the Ripper, but we know that isn't true. Or at least, we will learn that wasn't the case with future episodes (like Normandy), so I guess it could have been a retcon or continuity error, yet their earlier conversation at the Sanctuary with Will in the room seemed to imply they had seen each other after that. But maybe I'm looking too much into it and it's simply to tell the viewers more about their past.

    By the way, seeing their confrontation again, with James yelling "It was you!", I can definitely see where some fans got their slashy inspiration from! The moment between them after they retrieved John's key was also very touching. James' exasperation and John's chuckle give me the idea they had a great friendship once upon a time and I can only imagine how strong people's ties will become after knowing each (and sharing their 'transformation') for so long.

    Poor Ashley! She has no idea what's in store for her!

    As always, great interaction between Magnus and Nikola. He really seems to get a kick out of making her admit she cares for him. And his defense about "we all hurt the ones we love" and her facial expression are just gold! Great job by the actors.

    I don't really get Clara's whining about how she can't do it. Why is she having so much trouble staying invisible? She's obviously done it tons of times before to steal things and even when evading John and Will, yet now she's suddenly "blinking" and unsure of her abilities.

    Magnus' test was pretty easy, although I must admit I didn't get Noah's ark or the permutation of abnormal life from the 2x2! Guess it's a Magnus thing! Was anyone else reminded of Sam Carter in Thor's Hammer when Magnus drew infinity in the sand? Also, couldn't someone (who managed to bypass the iris scanner) just reach into the sand and grab the key if it was lying underneath it?

    Even though James is obviously still mad at John about the whole Jack the Ripper thing you can tell he still trusts him when the place is starting to collapse. I thought that was a nice moment.

    Clara kinda ruined the scene where everyone is coming to the center chamber with her lightly 'joking' about her clothes, considering it's her fault the place is falling to pieces! Seriously, does she not have a sense of responsibility or something? Ah well, I guess I shouldn't be too hard on her seeing as Nigel wasn't that smart (especially compared to the rest of The Five) either, so it could run in the family!

    Vampire blood must be really great for it to still be in good condition after all this time!

    Nooooo! Not James! I never saw it coming the first time, even if he seemed to have some difficulties but I figured that was just a consequence of the suit. I still don't get why he put so much trust in Will instead of one of The Five, especially considering the outcome and the fact that The Five are a lot smarter than Will! He doesn't have half the mind either one of them has! And his only seems to deteriorate as the show goes on...

    I must admit there were tears in my eyes when James died! So sad! From their comments about Nigel earlier I couldn't really tell if they'd remained close with him and were aware of him dying, but I did get the impression (because of his letter) that they weren't with him in his final days so it must be really hard to see James die in front of them...

    Henry! Yeah, you go boy! Is it just me or did Ashley look a bit silly moving her gun around as they went into the computer room? Why not just keep it steady in one hand like every other person does in every other show?

    John has impeccable timing! For a moment I thought Henry and Ashley were toast! But it does appear as if they did something to Ashley... *smiles knowingly*

    *ignores annoying supposedly romantic scene between Clara and Will*

    Aw, my heart just ached for both Magnus and John when they discussed Ashley's condition. You could already hear the emotion in John's voice at the thought of the Cabal having harmed their daughter!

    Oh no! Ashley!

    Will has an epiphany...

    The blood!

    Gah, that moment between John and Magnus before they realize it was Ashley who teleported to get the blood! They're such great actors that the tension between them was palpable through my screen! Too bad Will is too late with his big 'revelation'...

    Oh no, Ashley! What did they do to you?!

    And why are they suddenly on the other side of the planet and how did Dana get there so quickly?


    To be continued! Oh no! The angst! Even knowing what's going to come I'm already feeling the tension and angst...
    Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
    Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
    On FFnet or AO3


    My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories. /

  7. #27
    Lieutenant Colonel Amara D'Angeli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    Some questions or comments...

    Quote Originally Posted by fems View Post
    Again, I really like the special effects they used to show us what Will and James are discussing when they imagine the city. It's too bad they abandoned it after, well, this season, I think. The way James is 'teaching' and testing Will is enjoyable and I think Will might have become a far more enjoyable character if he'd been James' protege! No offense to Magnus, of course. But hey, Declan was a pretty great guy too! Although I don't recall whether he was actually trained by James...
    Okay, yeah. What's the what with this? Does Will have some sort of abnormal-y power? I thought the zooming in/highlighting we were doing we were seeing all season was just meant to show us the things that were jumping out at him. Maybe I missed something important... Because at some point Helen mentioned James being able to do the same thing Will did just on a grander scale.

    Again, it's implied here that John is only alive today because of Helen's blood prolonging his life/curing him, something that seems to be called into question later on so it's good to know I wasn't imagining things.
    Did I miss them saying how/why Helen's blood is helpful to him? Or why he's dying in the first place?

    Will is such an idiot. Did he really have to hold out his hand to lose three or more stepping stones before coming to the conclusion of what the test was all about? It was pretty obvious and he's supposed to be such a smart guy! Clara is again being a whiny little... but I guess that's supposed to be cute, or something. It's not like she's the only twenty-something female that has similar traits on this show (well, at the moment she is but not in the future).
    Lol, it wasn't obvious to me. I couldn't figure out what use an invisible person was going to have. But once I saw what was happening (and he explained it) it made sense as probably the only thing an invisible person could have done save for not having a reflection...

    ven though James is obviously still mad at John about the whole Jack the Ripper thing you can tell he still trusts him when the place is starting to collapse. I thought that was a nice moment.
    Actually...why is everyone so mad at him about the Jack the Ripper thing? I was under the impression it was a side effect of his transformation/metal illness sort of episode. I mean, he's clearly not that guy anymore. And Helen was apparently able-enough to look past it as he's still around...

    Nooooo! Not James! I never saw it coming the first time, even if he seemed to have some difficulties but I figured that was just a consequence of the suit. I still don't get why he put so much trust in Will instead of one of The Five, especially considering the outcome and the fact that The Five are a lot smarter than Will! He doesn't have half the mind either one of them has! And his only seems to deteriorate as the show goes on...
    This took me by total surprise, too. I was wholly unprepared for him to die. I don't think they foreshadowed the failure of his device enough (if at all). I don't know of Will in the coming episodes, so I'll reserve judgement about his mental abilities but if he shares a "power" with James, isn't it sort of natural that James put some trust in him?

    I must admit there were tears in my eyes when James died! So sad! From their comments about Nigel earlier I couldn't really tell if they'd remained close with him and were aware of him dying, but I did get the impression (because of his letter) that they weren't with him in his final days so it must be really hard to see James die in front of them...
    I must have missed an episode somewhere along the way... I don't have the same connection to The Five the you others seem to have. I don't feel like I know much about them at all. In a short 13 ep season, we only brushed up against each of them a little. Or maybe there was more, I dunno...

    John has impeccable timing! For a moment I thought Henry and Ashley were toast! But it does appear as if they did something to Ashley... *smiles knowingly*
    I loved that moment!

    *ignores annoying supposedly romantic scene between Clara and Will*
    Thank you. **cough**soforced**cough**

    Gah, that moment between John and Magnus before they realize it was Ashley who teleported to get the blood! They're such great actors that the tension between them was palpable through my screen! Too bad Will is too late with his big 'revelation'...
    Uh...why is it Will's fault?



    I'm just jonesing for the next ep which will air at 4:00 tomorrow for me. Uh... that's 2100 GMT.
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  8. #28
    Brigadier General fems's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    Quote Originally Posted by Amara D'Angeli View Post
    Okay, yeah. What's the what with this? Does Will have some sort of abnormal-y power? I thought the zooming in/highlighting we were doing we were seeing all season was just meant to show us the things that were jumping out at him. Maybe I missed something important... Because at some point Helen mentioned James being able to do the same thing Will did just on a grander scale.
    No, Will doesn't have an abnormal power. It's like you said, it's just to show us the things that jump out at him because he's supposed to be this very good observer who picks up on tiny clues. It's not unlike how the technique is used in certain other TV shows, where the camera zooms in on tiny details (like facial expressions or evidence in a crime scene). Unfortunately, they seem to forget this entire aspect of Will's character later on in the show, to his detriment in my opinion.

    Helen did say something along those lines and James himself also commented on Will's potential as a detective, I believe. It's just that he's great at seeing clues other people miss. So no, you didn't miss anything important. Also, it was mentioned a few times in this (and the previous) episode that Watson's true gift is his intellect, which grew exponentially after the injection so not some kind of special vision as the special effects might indicate!


    Quote Originally Posted by Amara D'Angeli View Post
    Did I miss them saying how/why Helen's blood is helpful to him? Or why he's dying in the first place?
    No, I don't think it has ever been explicitly stated, but John and Magnus both mentioned how he would die without her blood in the pilot. I also believe it was implied (or even stated) at the time that this wasn't the first time he'd come for it/needed it. I imagine John would have otherwise died of old age, like James. However, that begs the question as to why she didn't give her blood to James as well rather than having him rely on his harness... it's not like they weren't on good terms or anything.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amara D'Angeli View Post
    Lol, it wasn't obvious to me. I couldn't figure out what use an invisible person was going to have. But once I saw what was happening (and he explained it) it made sense as probably the only thing an invisible person could have done save for not having a reflection...
    Oh! Maybe I've been watching too many shows for it to become predictable to me! I'm not saying I knew right away (the first time) what the invisible person's task was going to be but as soon as Will and Clara entered that room it was obvious to me...

    Quote Originally Posted by Amara D'Angeli View Post
    Actually...why is everyone so mad at him about the Jack the Ripper thing? I was under the impression it was a side effect of his transformation/metal illness sort of episode. I mean, he's clearly not that guy anymore. And Helen was apparently able-enough to look past it as he's still around...
    I think the anger, aside from killing women, was about how he'd fooled them for so long about being the murderer. Like James said, they used to discuss the case together and he would ask for John's input without knowing he was the one who did it! It was a betrayal to their friendship and to John and Helen's relationship as well, of course.

    I don't recall the specific events from previous episodes so I'll try to be as vague as possible as not to spoil any specific future events for you, but there have been various times where the killing was indeed blamed on something beyond John's control. However, there were also some conflicting explanations/implications in other episodes and even a (possible) retcon of earlier stated things in one of the later episodes.

    Anyway, the consensus seems to be that while he may not have been in control, there was a darkness in John to begin with. I won't spoil you but I will say that we'll see more of that darkness in both present and past John.

    In the pilot it was pretty obvious that Helen was afraid of John and what he might do to her/Ashley, which implied that she feared him even though he supposedly wasn't in control of the Ripper killings but she also showed a weakness in that she still cared for him. Her weakness for him continues to be theme throughout the series, although not in a bad way in my opinion. It's not like how in a lot of shows she'll just forgive him because he's her Twu Wuv; she knows his nature, what he's done and I don't think she ever truly forgives him but she still cares.

    Also, let's not forget that Helen was originally John's doctor. There was something wrong with him prior to their experiments with source blood and while it has never been explained what the nature of his complaints were, it's possible that they weren't entirely medical but more behavioral. That could be why she felt so betrayed by his killings, since he implied he was better thanks to her help when he proposed.


    Quote Originally Posted by Amara D'Angeli View Post
    This took me by total surprise, too. I was wholly unprepared for him to die. I don't think they foreshadowed the failure of his device enough (if at all). I don't know of Will in the coming episodes, so I'll reserve judgement about his mental abilities but if he shares a "power" with James, isn't it sort of natural that James put some trust in him?
    The signs I mentioned were mostly him having difficulty walking, his breathlessness and weakness (using John for support) and the comments he made to Magnus when they were working together in the lab/autopsy. He seemed to suggest that while he was old, he wouldn't mind having her longevity even though he seemed perfectly fine thanks to his suit. I also think there was something in his reply to Will who asked what his suit was all about back at the Sanctuary, but I'm not sure if I'm recalling that correctly.

    Like I said, Will doesn't have a 'power' and neither did James when it comes to his observational skills. James just had this incredibly enhanced mind and apparently a vivid imagination to be able to recreate the city in his mind's eye, but Will just seemed to have a talent for observation and/or reading body language. So, while James probably thought he would be a worthy successor if trained properly, I don't see why he didn't turn to Magnus or even Nikola/John since they are all known for their incredible intellect. He even said John's mind was his best weapon and Nikola is a pure genius as well... But I guess they had to include Will in the whole thing and this seemed like the best idea. Perhaps James thought that he'd catch on better to the plan because of his background at the FBI?


    Quote Originally Posted by Amara D'Angeli View Post
    I must have missed an episode somewhere along the way... I don't have the same connection to The Five the you others seem to have. I don't feel like I know much about them at all. In a short 13 ep season, we only brushed up against each of them a little. Or maybe there was more, I dunno...
    I just really liked Watson and loved the actor's portrayal of him. I don't remember if I had such a strong response to his death the first time I watched the episode, but we will learn more about the Five in the coming seasons, either through (retold) stories or flashbacks. Well, not entirely flashbacks: there are a few episodes literally set in the past, so...


    Quote Originally Posted by Amara D'Angeli View Post
    Uh...why is it Will's fault?
    I'm not saying it's his fault per se, it's just that he seemed to have this epiphany on the roof which implied he had it all figured out and that James' "trust" in him was founded, only for everyone else to have already figured it out as well by the time he reached Magnus (and the others). That was just too bad, in my opinion. It would have had more of an impact if, say, Will had run into the lab where Magnus and Nikola (was it him?) were working to tell them it was all a ruse; they would have been confused and perhaps doubtful or demanding an explanation while suddenly someone teleported in to grab the source blood and they all rushed over to accuse John, only to realize it was actually Ashley after John's convincing denial.



    Quote Originally Posted by Amara D'Angeli View Post
    I'm just jonesing for the next ep which will air at 4:00 tomorrow for me. Uh... that's 2100 GMT.

    I can imagine! I admire your strength, though. I probably would have searched online to watch it, rather than wait a whole week for one episode... Huh, I think I actually did do that when I first discovered the show! It had already been going on for two seasons or so at that time, so I did a little marathon to get caught up...
    Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
    Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
    On FFnet or AO3


    My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories. /

  9. #29
    Robert Sparky She-Demon's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    I seem to remember something that said that her blood didn't work on James.

  10. #30
    Captain JanSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fems View Post
    No, Will doesn't have an abnormal power. It's like you said, it's just to show us the things that jump out at him because he's supposed to be this very good observer who picks up on tiny clues. It's not unlike how the technique is used in certain other TV shows, where the camera zooms in on tiny details (like facial expressions or evidence in a crime scene). Unfortunately, they seem to forget this entire aspect of Will's character later on in the show, to his detriment in my opinion.
    Relying on my memory.......In either the podcast for SyFy or the episode commentary on the DVD's Martin mentioned how he didn't like this effect and decided to discontinue it. He didn't like this effect and Amanda hated the "previously on" as they felt it was dumbing it down for the audience and it wasn't necessary because they had a smart audience. The networks wouldn't let them discontinue the "previously on".

    Quote Originally Posted by fems View Post
    No, I don't think it has ever been explicitly stated, but John and Magnus both mentioned how he would die without her blood in the pilot. I also believe it was implied (or even stated) at the time that this wasn't the first time he'd come for it/needed it. I imagine John would have otherwise died of old age, like James. However, that begs the question as to why she didn't give her blood to James as well rather than having him rely on his harness... it's not like they weren't on good terms or anything.
    You're right Fems, from the transcript of Sanctuary For All Part 2....

    HELEN
    There’s only one reason you would have taken this risk, to risk her. Because you have to. You're dying, aren't you?

    DRUITT
    We’re all dying. It simply comes down to survival, and I intend to do whatever is necessary to ensure mine.

    HELEN
    Even if it means killing her?

    DRUITT
    Her life is in your hands, Helen. I don't think you want to lose her over something as easily accessible as your own blood.

    [Druitt walks over to stand close in front of Helen, smiling softly.]

    DRUITT
    You saved my life once before. You can do it again.

    HELEN
    I can help you, John, and not by prolonging this nightmare. I can find a cure.


    Quote Originally Posted by fems View Post
    Oh! Maybe I've been watching too many shows for it to become predictable to me! I'm not saying I knew right away (the first time) what the invisible person's task was going to be but as soon as Will and Clara entered that room it was obvious to me...



    I think the anger, aside from killing women, was about how he'd fooled them for so long about being the murderer. Like James said, they used to discuss the case together and he would ask for John's input without knowing he was the one who did it! It was a betrayal to their friendship and to John and Helen's relationship as well, of course.

    I don't recall the specific events from previous episodes so I'll try to be as vague as possible as not to spoil any specific future events for you, but there have been various times where the killing was indeed blamed on something beyond John's control. However, there were also some conflicting explanations/implications in other episodes and even a (possible) retcon of earlier stated things in one of the later episodes.

    Anyway, the consensus seems to be that while he may not have been in control, there was a darkness in John to begin with. I won't spoil you but I will say that we'll see more of that darkness in both present and past John.

    In the pilot it was pretty obvious that Helen was afraid of John and what he might do to her/Ashley, which implied that she feared him even though he supposedly wasn't in control of the Ripper killings but she also showed a weakness in that she still cared for him. Her weakness for him continues to be theme throughout the series, although not in a bad way in my opinion. It's not like how in a lot of shows she'll just forgive him because he's her Twu Wuv; she knows his nature, what he's done and I don't think she ever truly forgives him but she still cares.

    Also, let's not forget that Helen was originally John's doctor. There was something wrong with him prior to their experiments with source blood and while it has never been explained what the nature of his complaints were, it's possible that they weren't entirely medical but more behavioral. That could be why she felt so betrayed by his killings, since he implied he was better thanks to her help when he proposed.
    Amara don't click because I don't want to spoil you about later episodes....

    Fems the confusion about John's illness
    Spoiler:
    comes from what was stated in Sanctuary For All and then later in Haunted. Sanctuary For All used footage from webisodes 1-3 but they changed the "family reunion" from webisode 4. In the Webisodes, John's illness was caused from the teleporting and each time he teleported it caused his madness to increase. Also in the webisodes John was able to teleport through time and not just space so there was no need to give John long life as he just moved through time. Then in Haunted....Amara just in case you peaked I'm spoiling this again DON'T CLICK THIS ONE!!!!
    Spoiler:
    they revealed the energy creature instead of teleporting being the cause of John's madness which caused some inconsistencies.
    I hope I explained it and it made sense (kinda late here)if not just ask and I'll try again when I'm not tired .



    Quote Originally Posted by fems View Post
    I can imagine! I admire your strength, though. I probably would have searched online to watch it, rather than wait a whole week for one episode... Huh, I think I actually did do that when I first discovered the show! It had already been going on for two seasons or so at that time, so I did a little marathon to get caught up...
    I'll admit I'm really looking forward to reading Amara's reaction to the next few episodes. End of Nights 1 and 2 are probably my favorites of the series.
    http://forum.gateworld.net/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=8226&dateline=1311902876

  11. #31
    Brigadier General fems's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSam View Post

    Amara don't click because I don't want to spoil you about later episodes....

    Fems the confusion about John's illness
    Spoiler:
    comes from what was stated in Sanctuary For All and then later in Haunted. Sanctuary For All used footage from webisodes 1-3 but they changed the "family reunion" from webisode 4. In the Webisodes, John's illness was caused from the teleporting and each time he teleported it caused his madness to increase. Also in the webisodes John was able to teleport through time and not just space so there was no need to give John long life as he just moved through time. Then in Haunted....Amara just in case you peaked I'm spoiling this again DON'T CLICK THIS ONE!!!!
    Spoiler:
    they revealed the energy creature instead of teleporting being the cause of John's madness which caused some inconsistencies.
    I hope I explained it and it made sense (kinda late here)if not just ask and I'll try again when I'm not tired .



    Yes but there's also

    Spoiler:

    Don't click on this Amara!
    Spoiler:
    the introduction of Spring-heeled Jack in Tempus. IIRC, he was the one responsible for the more recent murders but the whole thing also cast doubts on the Jack the Ripper cases being John's work. For me, at least. I'm pretty sure they didn't retcon it but I don't think the introduction of SHJ was a good idea because of the similarities between the Ripper cases and past John's behavior...
    Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
    Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
    On FFnet or AO3


    My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories. /

  12. #32
    Captain JanSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fems View Post
    Yes but there's also

    Spoiler:

    Don't click on this Amara!
    Spoiler:
    the introduction of Spring-heeled Jack in Tempus. IIRC, he was the one responsible for the more recent murders but the whole thing also cast doubts on the Jack the Ripper cases being John's work. For me, at least. I'm pretty sure they didn't retcon it but I don't think the introduction of SHJ was a good idea because of the similarities between the Ripper cases and past John's behavior...
    Honest Amara we aren't intentionally testing your will power...

    Don't click on this Amara!

    Spoiler:

    I don't question the earlier Jack the Ripper cases being John's work because of the flashback of 1880 Helen confronting 1880 John where he not only admitted to killing the other ladies but then proceeded to kill one right in front of Helen as she held a gun on him. I'll admit if it wasn't for that scene then yes the introduction of SHJ would call me to question if he was responsible.


    http://forum.gateworld.net/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=8226&dateline=1311902876

  13. #33
    Lieutenant Colonel Amara D'Angeli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    I don't believe you!

    Do you know how hard it is, *not* to click? Or how hard it was *not* to read when I realized the spoiler showed up when I clicked "reply with quote"? But I deleted it like a good little twiddle without reading the spoiler.
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  14. #34
    Brigadier General fems's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    Sorry, Amara. I know we could have said it via VMs/PMs but I thought others might like to weigh in and once you've finished watching the show you could give your thoughts on it as well.

    So, just a few more hours now until you can watch End of Nights, right? I take it they're only airing the first episode today on your channel and you'll have to wait another week to see the two-parter's conclusion?
    Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
    Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
    On FFnet or AO3


    My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories. /

  15. #35
    Lieutenant Colonel Amara D'Angeli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    That's right. I've got just over an hour. Of course, I'll probably DVR at least a while so I can fast forward through the commercials.
    Visit me all over the place! FFN | AO3 | My Website |Twitter |Tumblr

  16. #36
    Lieutenant Colonel Amara D'Angeli's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    Okay, finally - phone calls, Facebook, and email have released me long enough to watch End of Nights: Part I. So here come the insta-reactions.

    John and Helen searching for Ashley together. He's sort of growing on me with the whole concerned father act.

    Will and Clara? Seriously? What? One kiss on a rooftop and now she's not only his girl-friend but is apparently working with them? They have the most prolific recruiting program ever. Brush up against the Sanctuary and get a job offer, folks!

    But mostly, I just dislike Clara...

    The Tesla/Will exchange made me giggle. "Huggy bear!"

    Poor Biggie. Talk about being between a rock and a hard place. But I'm with Henry - take the damn treatment, Big!

    Hold up…the Cabal is backing abnormals? Why? What does that yield them?

    You can tell Helen's conflicted about John's presence. But if he wanted to know where they stood, I think she was clear about how she really feels about him. The conflict is strong on her face - there's something there. But will she ever really trust him again? How could she?

    So now Will's an undercover operative? Why don't I see this ending well?

    Yep. Will sucks at undercover. Sussed out and cops to it.

    Creepy, creepy, creepy red-headed doctor.

    I don't like the sounds of Phase 2… And the programming is just wiggy.

    So Biggie is already not welcome at home? Why resist the treatment? Just to be "one of them"? Hardly seems worth it when he's got a family of sorts at the Sanctuary filled with people who care about him. Seems like an awfully hard line to draw to spite himself.

    Wow - why did the meeting between Helen and Will seem so uncomfortable? They've hardly had anything to do with one another in the last couple of eps. The tension seems out of place. I can't yet see where the show's going with the orphan DNA mod study and Ashley's desire for the info. Usually I can formulate some idea or another even if it's wrong. But that one seemed to come out of left field. And Will thinks it was Ashley that stole the data and not the Cabal? Does that mean he thinks she's still capable of independent action? Or did he just mean she was the one tasked with the errand?

    Hey, look! The gang's back together and they've picked up a couple of extras. It's just sort of nice to see (most of) the core group all in the same room.

    Oh good. Will had to ask about the DNA thing, too. I'm glad it wasn't just me…

    Wait! That's what the source blood does!?! So the powers that The Five got have nothing to do with the vampiric abilities and have to do with latent abnormal abilities each of The Five had? So they all just happened to have latent vampire abilities? That seems rather unlikely.

    So the orphans would have absolutely no latent abnormal DNA. Does that mean that the rest of the population would/does? If so, it's amazing the source blood thing is only coming up now. Well, at least that means it really was the Cabal stealing the data and not Ashley herself.

    What's up with bad guys submerging people in water? Seriously. What's the point?

    Okay, well that was just creepy, John. Today's her lucky day? You're going to abduct her from a barn…

    Ew, ew, ew…somebody news a manicure.

    Martin Wood? But what's up with the guy that he's got such an elaborate escape plan?

    Ah, so this is Kate!

    That was kind of a low blow, Will. I thought Helen showed marvelous restraint under the circumstances.

    And c'mon Henry! What the hell?!? Couldn't you see that coming from a mile away? Bye-bye pretty little convertible…

    What I don't understand is why the Cabal is interested in turning Ashley into an abnormal if they want all the abnormals gone. Moreover, what do they want with an abnormal when they're putting together a merry bandy of un-turnables?

    Whoa… the Cabal says they were only unable to retrieve one subject but Martin Wood got away and John got the girl in the barn. Did I miss something important? Is Martin not one of the orphans?

    So Helen and Tesla are batting around the idea that the orphans are blank slates and that the Cabal wanted the source blood to make an all-new abnormal. But two things: 1) isn't that sort of contrary to everything the Cabal is about; and 2) doesn't the source blood only awaken latent abilities (or, at best, fork over a vampiric ability)?

    Ah, so Kate got Martin to the Cabal. So much for that question…

    Worst. Shots. Ever. Seriously? She was able to get out of the car and get behind a wall and avoid all that gunfire? Right.

    Oops, no. Guess she was shot. At least she made it to the Sanctuary first. And having been spoiled, I know they're going to hire her… Like I said, most prolific recruiting program ever.

    Can I get on the John travel program? That looks handy. But during the puzzle solving he mentioned having to know where he was going to materialize so he didn't start co-existing with rock (I think he even mentioned it once before). How does that work when he's going to a location like the industrial complex? Satellite imagery is only so good. How does he know he's not going to re-materialize as part of a passing-by car or something?

    So Ashley's a vampire now? They used the source blood to bring out her latent abilities which thanks to the abilities of mom and dad (which may have been their own latent abilities or byproducts of the source blood) she's a full on vampire the likes of which even Tesla doesn't seem to rival (though he's the closest). But the Cabal clearly did something else to the source blood because it's now a clear blue liquid. So what's the what?

    Btw, I don't care for the splitting the screen into multiple parts so we can see all the camera angles. I feel like I'm missing details because I can't look at it all at once. But clearly it's all important or it wouldn't all be on the screen at once.

    So it's not really abnormals the Cabal has a problem with but the Sanctuary?

    It was a good episode and I feel like we're finally getting some info. Two new characters over the course of the last two episodes, more time with Tesla and John…it's great but I feel like we get a little gypped. I didn't get to spend enough time with any of the characters.

    Damn waiting another week. Pretty sure I'm going to just have to buy the series DVDs. I'm not used to once a week viewing on a show everybody else is ahead of me on. I don't think I like it!
    Last edited by Amara D'Angeli; December 7th, 2013 at 02:45 PM.
    Visit me all over the place! FFN | AO3 | My Website |Twitter |Tumblr

  17. #37
    Brigadier General fems's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    You've brought up some excellent questions, Amara! I don't know all the answers so I'll just wait with replying to anything until after I've seen the episode sometime next week. Too bad you still have another week of waiting for the other half of End of Night because the events in that episode are some of my favorite. I don't recall all the details (which makes rewatching only more fun) and I'm not even sure if it's the plotline or just some fabulous acting by a bunch of the cast; all I know is that I remember it as a great episode and I'm really looking forward to rewatching it.
    Unmade Plans (WIP: 11/20):
    Sam's life takes a turn in an unexpected direction when she's faced with an unplanned pregnancy. The decision to keep the baby and raise it on her own will alter her life forever. Relationships are put to the test, especially the one between her and Jack. She doesn't know what to expect from him and he surprises her at every turn.
    On FFnet or AO3


    My S/J fics can be found on FFnet and AO3. I also tweet and tumble about the ship and my writing/stories. /

  18. #38
    Chief Master Sergeant StevenSG1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    Sorry if I sound ignorant to the show or to lazy to check!

    But what is Sanctuary about? Better to get the perspective off of here from people who watch it, who's in it etc (people of note)

    Thanks for any info

  19. #39
    Captain JanSam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by StevenSG1 View Post
    Sorry if I sound ignorant to the show or to lazy to check!

    But what is Sanctuary about? Better to get the perspective off of here from people who watch it, who's in it etc (people of note)

    Thanks for any info
    Best answer for your question is to link you to the synopsis on the official website.
    http://www.sanctuaryforall.com/TheShow/Synopsis.php

    They list who is on the show at the bottom but Amanda Tapping, Robin Dunne, Christopher Heyerdahl, and Ryan Robbins. Besides Amanda; Chris appeared in both SG-1 and Atlantis and Ryan in Atlantis. Damian Kindler, creator and writer, and Martin Wood, director (both from Stargate) produce the show with Amanda. Many actors from Stargate appeared in the show as episode guest or recurring cast.
    http://forum.gateworld.net/image.php?type=sigpic&userid=8226&dateline=1311902876

  20. #40
    Chief Master Sergeant StevenSG1's Avatar
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    Default Re: Late to the Party

    Quote Originally Posted by JanSam View Post
    Best answer for your question is to link you to the synopsis on the official website.
    http://www.sanctuaryforall.com/TheShow/Synopsis.php

    They list who is on the show at the bottom but Amanda Tapping, Robin Dunne, Christopher Heyerdahl, and Ryan Robbins. Besides Amanda; Chris appeared in both SG-1 and Atlantis and Ryan in Atlantis. Damian Kindler, creator and writer, and Martin Wood, director (both from Stargate) produce the show with Amanda. Many actors from Stargate appeared in the show as episode guest or recurring cast.

    Thank you

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