The Day of the Doctor (2013)

[SaberBlade]

Time Lords chose the ascension and destroying the universe instead of using the moment and confronting their choices. Ain't that a bit cowardly?

If this episode has done anything, it's shown there were two forces at work during the war, the High Council and the Gallifrey High Command. It was even said when the High Command first appeared "The High Council is in session. They have plans of their own". Who is to say that the Final Solution (ascension) was anything more than Time Lord/High Council wanting to save themselves as opposed to the millions, or billions of regular Gallifreyans and the High Command. This would seem, as you put it, cowardly but ultimately not a choice the people made.

With 'The End of Time', I had assumed The Doctor stopped his people from wiping out everyone else, but this suggests it wasn't his people, but the Time Lords themselves. It would make his actions even more traumatic because he killed all those innocent Gallifreyans to stop the Time Lords from carrying out their own plan, while the rest of the planet fought for survival. War Doctor even says "Time Lords of Gallifrey, Daleks of Skarro, I serve notice on you all". He really didn't want to kill the people on his planet, just stop Time Lords and Daleks.

With that, that really makes what The Doctor went through so tragic because he had to live with and cope with the consequences of his actions, and that's not including what he actually did during the war (he regenerated young and was an old man at the end) so there was a lot of things he had to deal with. It really would have been terrific development for the character and great back story, but nope, none of it actually happened. We don't know if he ever actually pushed that button. If the memories of him burning Gallifrey to end the war are even real. Instead we get a Ninth (presumably Nine since we didn't see the whole regeneration) who is tormented by memories that never actually happened.

[P-90_177]

I was actually hoping to hear there were more than 13 Doctors at the end. Hearing Eleven talk would make it seem like there were more than just War Doctor. The little glimpse of Twleve though, loved it. Just not sure what to make of Fourth making an appearance. Future Doctor starting to look like previous incarnations maybe.

I have to say though, I was disappointed with the war. The war, especially when Tenth describes it to The Master during 'The End of Days', sounded much worse than just the Dalek's bombarding the planet. They seemed to have also forgotten that the Time Lord Council were just as bad and wanted to end all of creation to save themselves. Tenth listed a whole bunch of things that would come through when Gallifrey escaped the time lock, so it really begs the question, who time locked it?I just feel like a part of Tenth's departure has been retconned massively. When he ended the war, he was completely justified as it meant saving the universe from the Time Lords as well. That said, if they do ever find Gallifrey, The Master should be there since he got trapped back inside the lock as it was a few days before the war ended.

It was a really enjoyable episode, but again shows how Moffat doesn't really care that much about consistency. He just does whatever he thinks seems cool. Yeah the time stream will correct itself so a whole bunch of new events in The Doctors past will just be forgotten, including the fact he never wiped out his people.

It wasn't the whole war. The War had been fought for so much longer. The Night of the Doctor shows that the rest of the universe considers Timelords to be as bad as The Daleks. Day of the Doctor just shows that the Daleks were winning and fought the timelords back to Gallifrey.

Id kinda worked it out while watching, as Moffat had said it would change his objective so to say, but it was still a very nice surprise...

Question is, how long will it take for him to find it? Will that be the 100th Anniversary? lol

Well we know Peter Capaldi was there. I'm gonna guess that it was the moment when he discovers how to get there himself.

I thought it could have done with more story.

And there the massive plot hole that if the Gallifrey returned to our universe, then what stopped the ground council from destroying our universe through their plan to save their own hive and ascend, which was one of the reasons the Doctor chose to use the Moment.
An if Bad Wolf was able to enter the time lock why didn't she take care of the Daleks, like she said she did?

Plus what happen to the shape shifters storyline, did we negotiate a treaty with them? Where did they go to live on Earth. How could a government ever trust aliens that can appear as anyone.

A great opportunity to give an enemy some depth and less 2d missed, great opportunity to give some depth to humanity as wel.

what story there was, was good but it just to thread bear, to many plot holes for it to be great episode. It needed to be a good
10-15 minute longer. Thank god the Daleks were just a sideshow.

3.5/5 From me I am afraid.

It's not a plot hole! The general in Arcadia said the Timelords had their own plans to save Gallifrey, so in the hours before The War Doctor used the moment, that is where the end of Time comes in. But we know that the Doctor stopped their break out from the time lock, and we also know that the Master was in the middle of killing Rassilon. Now Rassilon was the one who was truly hooked on the idea of ascension, and besides everything else, Gallifrey is essentially issolated away from everything else in the rest of the universe. In essence like in one of the 3D paintings. There is no plot hole.

[stargatefan234]

Omg

[Tyjos]

Brilliant Episode! Ah this one was good...makes my whole weekend to see new Doctor Who!

I wouldn't mind having one of those big red buttons......

[Teddybrown]

Wonder what the viewing figures will be...

[Sealurk]

Bear in mind that if the Doctor does find and restore Gallifrey and the Time Lords, they're going to have to be held accountable for their actions - and they're almost certainly going to encounter the Daleks again - Time War 2? But as for the general purpose of the story and the new direction, I approve heartily!

Criticism #1: Admittedly I did think the Time War didn't quite live up to the horror and terror it had been painted as being - no Nightmare Child, no Horde of Travesties, no Skaro Degradations? The universe, we're told, is burning... but it doesn't feel like it. Still, there was a lot to do and not much time. It might have been better as a two hour film or even a limited miniseries.

Loved the use of the original title and theme, and lots of nicely subtle rather than 'in your face' references.

Clara is a teacher now? Was she one - or training as one - when we met her in The Bells of Saint John, or has it been a while since she was travelling with the Doctor? Presumably after her actions in The Name of the Doctor she felt the need to get back to her normal life and apparently also learn to ride a motorbike. Not that I'm complaining.

Malcolm! Malcolm Taylor, UNIT Scientific Advisor from Planet of the Dead? I didn't hear Kate mention him before. I wonder how many Bernards the robotic ravens put out...

Kate's phone having a TARDIS noise ringtone... thinking about what's said later about the sound of the TARDIS and the way UNIT think of the Doctor, I love that touch.

The Derren Brown line made me smile.

"Seek! Locate! Destroy!" *Action TARDIS slam*

Criticism #2: How did the real Elizabeth know so many details about the Zygon plan, enough to convince the other Zygons and the Doctors that she was one long enough to infiltrate their base?

Although problematic in a few regards, the redemption of the War Doctor was actually quite lovely, and his reward - not having to live with what he thought were his actions because he regenerates immediately into the Ninth Doctor, and the throwback to the First Doctor's regeneration - was really nice.

Not sure how the Fourth Doctor (assuming that was actually him, which was implied but hazy) fitted in but it was really great to see him. Maybe an alternate version who never regenerated and is connected in some way to the Watcher?

Seeing every TARDIS, every Doctor (and the briefest glimpse of the next one especially) made me pretty much punch the air and yell, and honestly I don't think it retcons too much - none of the past Doctors will remember the events, only Eleven, and as one of the Doctors said it still looks like the Time Lords and Daleks were annihilated to the outside universe.

Issues aside, I think it was incredibly enjoyable and I'm planning a third rewatch tomorrow.

[Alan]

I absolutely and completely loved it, loved it, loved it!!! A great 50th anniversary present for Doctor Who!!! My memories of this day and this anniversary will last a lifetime!!!

[knowles2]

Wonder what the viewing figures will be...

I am wondering what X-factor ratings will be, I be shock if ITV didn't get slaughtered.

[SaberBlade]

Not sure how the Fourth Doctor (assuming that was actually him, which was implied but hazy) fitted in but it was really great to see him. Maybe an alternate version who never regenerated and is connected in some way to the Watcher?

It wasn't Fourth. Going from the conversation, I would say it's implied to a future version of The Doctor. When they talk about never forgetting a face, "Fourth" says "I know you don't [forget a face] and in years to come you may find yourself revisiting a few, but just the old favourites".

It would lead me to believe that at some point, older actors could return to play The Doctor but not their original Doctor. Here's hoping for more Paul McCann or Eccleston.

[MasySyma]

A good episode. Not perfect, but at least it attempted to live up to the hype.

The Good
1. The thirteen doctors. I loved the shot of the upcoming doctor. He seems so intense, which makes me look forward to him.
2. I enjoyed watching Hurt's Doctor mock his counterparts. Asking if they were companions was perfect, and some of the complaints were dead on but fun. Ex. 11 can't hold still.
3. I miss Ten. I don't want him back or some of that "nonsense" whining I've seen elsewhere, but he was my Doctor, so it was sad watching him get in his Tardis to disappear again. I was glad he came back for the episode.
4. Generally, it was a better episode than most of 7.2. It was funny. The effects were good but not taking space. Each character served a purpose. Good Who is wonderful. This was mostly good Who.

The I'm still thinking about:
1. I don't like the time war reset. Some choices can't be fixed, even given enough time. It gives 11 a much-needed purpose, and I see how it didn't undo the adventures of 9 and 10, but it is odd that all thirteen fix the issue but only 11 forward can remember the results. So 9 grieves for deaths he didn't cause? He still had many reasons to be 9, but I feel like a fixed point got nudged. The Doctor won't be spending a millennia to figure out how to save Pompeii. He just privileged his people above all the other planets lost to the time war. I understand how we all might make that choice, but what makes the children on Gallifrey any more important than the children on any other planet?
2. Doctor's lose patients. Sometimes they have to let go. Saving Gallifrey makes him a super hero, not a time lord. He's one step off the glowy, god-like Doctor in the three-parter with the Master. It's uncomfortable.
3. The Tom Baker bit. Does the Doctor get to retire? If Gallifrey is back, perhaps, because someone else can step in to help the universe, but can the Doctor be a curator? It worked for the nostalgia effect, but it wasn't great storytelling.
4. The Scale of the Time War. Others have also said this. It was worse than what we saw. Perhaps Moffat assumes we all saw the web episode with 8. People would rather die that be near a time lord.

The Bad:
1. Unit. Can they ever be shown as a bit competent? No wonder the Doctor can't retire.
2. Clara. Sigh. Her worst line was suggesting she was ok with the Doctor committing murder and genocide as long as it wasn't 11. The hypocrisy of the impossible girl annoyed me. I get it. Nothing is impossible for her, but I'm looking forward to her eventual departure if this keeps up.
3. The Unit/Zygon plot was dropped. That is bad storytelling.
4. Misogyny isn't funny. 10 insulting QE1 once thinking she was the alien was acceptable, but twice was inappropriate. No woman should marry a man who will abuse her like that, and that behavior should not have been on the show.

It was a good episode. It wasn't perfect. It has all the "cracks" of the current show, but at least it felt like a proper Who episode.

[Cold Fuzz]

I don't mind admitting - I was actually in tears. Moffat you beautiful, beautiful human... thank you.

Very moving indeed, especially when Clara convinces the three Doctors to not go through with using the Moment. She wasn't forceful with her persuasion either. Her tearful reaction, especially knowing what it will do to the Doctor, was incredible to watch.

But the most moving part of all for me was all the Doctors coming together to change the outcome of the Time War. Seeing a small glimpse of the Twelfth Doctor--his intense eyes--was stunning.

[min min light]

One of my favourite lines has to be John Hurt "Oh the pointing again, they're screwdrivers, what are you going to do, assemble a cabinet at them?"

That was one of my favorite lines too. Lines like that are why I always end up forgiving Moffat.

But the most moving part of all for me was all the Doctors coming together to change the outcome of the Time War.

I was crying like a baby by then.

I'm not enough of a Doctor Who expert to argue things like continuity, I just watch and enjoy, so this is not to dismiss those kinds of concerns at all but, I thought this was about as perfect as it could have been considering the number of plates Moffat had to keep spinning in order to encompass (and pay tribute to) the fifty years of convoluted timelines and starts and stops and various actors and writers and audiences of a TV show about a regenerating madman with a box.

[P-90_177]

A good episode. Not perfect, but at least it attempted to live up to the hype.

The Good
1. The thirteen doctors. I loved the shot of the upcoming doctor. He seems so intense, which makes me look forward to him.
2. I enjoyed watching Hurt's Doctor mock his counterparts. Asking if they were companions was perfect, and some of the complaints were dead on but fun. Ex. 11 can't hold still.
3. I miss Ten. I don't want him back or some of that "nonsense" whining I've seen elsewhere, but he was my Doctor, so it was sad watching him get in his Tardis to disappear again. I was glad he came back for the episode.
4. Generally, it was a better episode than most of 7.2. It was funny. The effects were good but not taking space. Each character served a purpose. Good Who is wonderful. This was mostly good Who.

The I'm still thinking about:
1. I don't like the time war reset. Some choices can't be fixed, even given enough time. It gives 11 a much-needed purpose, and I see how it didn't undo the adventures of 9 and 10, but it is odd that all thirteen fix the issue but only 11 forward can remember the results. So 9 grieves for deaths he didn't cause? He still had many reasons to be 9, but I feel like a fixed point got nudged. The Doctor won't be spending a millennia to figure out how to save Pompeii. He just privileged his people above all the other planets lost to the time war. I understand how we all might make that choice, but what makes the children on Gallifrey any more important than the children on any other planet?
2. Doctor's lose patients. Sometimes they have to let go. Saving Gallifrey makes him a super hero, not a time lord. He's one step off the glowy, god-like Doctor in the three-parter with the Master. It's uncomfortable.
3. The Tom Baker bit. Does the Doctor get to retire? If Gallifrey is back, perhaps, because someone else can step in to help the universe, but can the Doctor be a curator? It worked for the nostalgia effect, but it wasn't great storytelling.
4. The Scale of the Time War. Others have also said this. It was worse than what we saw. Perhaps Moffat assumes we all saw the web episode with 8. People would rather die that be near a time lord.

The Bad:
1. Unit. Can they ever be shown as a bit competent? No wonder the Doctor can't retire.
2. Clara. Sigh. Her worst line was suggesting she was ok with the Doctor committing murder and genocide as long as it wasn't 11. The hypocrisy of the impossible girl annoyed me. I get it. Nothing is impossible for her, but I'm looking forward to her eventual departure if this keeps up.
3. The Unit/Zygon plot was dropped. That is bad storytelling.
4. Misogyny isn't funny. 10 insulting QE1 once thinking she was the alien was acceptable, but twice was inappropriate. No woman should marry a man who will abuse her like that, and that behavior should not have been on the show.

It was a good episode. It wasn't perfect. It has all the "cracks" of the current show, but at least it felt like a proper Who episode.

Keep in mind that the Timelords are his own people. Plus how many children were in Pompeii? A thousand or so? Cities didn't have nearly as many people in them as they do nowadays in Roman times. Now granted he may find it difficult to deal with even then. But the Doctor would never choose to intersect with his own timeline. When that occurs it is forced upon him. But the loss still doesn't compare with the billions of lives lost on Gallifrey. The difference is that in this situation he had access to his multiple selves.
As for his other selves memories, as shown with the War Doctor and the tenth Doctor, none of his past selves will remember their actions. This is undoubtedly a mechanism in built with timelord to help them cope with changes in their own personal timelines. As far as the War Doctor is concerned, the last thing he remembers is that he is about to press the red button and then Gallifrey was gone. As far as any of his other past selves are concerned, they probably just had a brief jaunt to gallifrey for some reason they don't properly recall. Even at the beginning of the episode, the Eleventh Doctor said he almost remembers what's going to happen, yet he can't. Otherwise he'd remember the solution to everything straight away.

Now, can I point out that Clara never specified that she couldn't imagine the Eleventh Doctor ending the war over the others. What she meant was that despite all the ties the Doctor had told her, she couldn't imagine it in general. I can fully understand that. I know a guy who I've known for years and years. I went to school with him, and he joined the army. Now he's been in Afghanistan, and seen front line action but I can't possibly imagine him going under fire like that. He's a nice guy and he's a bit of a jokester, but I know from what he's told me that he's been under fire and had to kill before, but I just can't picture it. It'd be the same for Clara.

Now likewise I don't see any Misogyny in the episode either. Actually I think it's fairly complimentary that the tenth Doctor has such a high standard in his head for who Queen Elizabeth was. On the first accusation he is right, history says she was the virgin queen who always refused marriage. His history was clearly wrong. On the second time he said she smelled and had bad teeth which perhaps is what you were mainly getting at? Again, it was the 16th Century..... that's kinda to be expected regardless. Clearly the guy just put her on a bit to high of a pedestal.

[cosmichobo]

And all the others said...

When Clara says there's an old man looking for the Doctor... my first thought was - maybe it's going to be Ian... :`) But then it was Tom...

I think Ian would have worked better, though there's no way I'm going to begrudge Tom's inclusion. I guess just as the "War" Doctor gained his redemption, so too did Tom on his decision not to appear in The Five Doctors... :}

[Cold Fuzz]

And all the others said...

When Clara says there's an old man looking for the Doctor... my first thought was - maybe it's going to be Ian... :`) But then it was Tom...

I think Ian would have worked better, though there's no way I'm going to begrudge Tom's inclusion. I guess just as the "War" Doctor gained his redemption, so too did Tom on his decision not to appear in The Five Doctors... :}

As first, I thought it was going to be Ian as well but I was incredibly wonderfully surprised to see Tom Baker.