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    #16
    Originally posted by fems View Post
    Except Rick already seemed to have Carol's things packed up in the car. Remember him looking at her knife set while he was getting ready to leave? It showed us a knife was missing, the one she had given to Lizzie (who I still don't trust) and why would have placed it in the car for their run unless he was planning to send her away from the start? It's not as if the knives would be useful in a fight since the set was packed in the back, rolled up and with the rest of their supplies; not something you can easily grab when you get overrun by walkers. Plus, Carol didn't seem to think there were things she would be missing either when he sent her away. Knowing how big Rick is supposed to be about family and with him urging her to talk about Sophia in the episode, you would think he'd at least give Carol the chance to go back to prison to retrieve some pictures (assuming she had any) of her before banishing her. But he'd probably packed those and other personal belongings with her knife set.
    Packing the knives doesn't mean he was planning on Carol leaving, though I do agree he was probably considering it. I would think that maybe Rick brought the knives to confront Carol with if he needed to use them in the conversation. The knives would have been more evidence of what Carol did. If Rick was really planning on banishing Carol, he is the type of guy who would have packed up all her special mementos and have them ready for her to take with her. If Carol really wanted something, she would have told Rick but Carol is at the point where she doesn't seem to have or want emotional attachments to anything/anyone. That’s why she told the one girl to not call her Mom. Calling someone Mom is creating an emotional attachment to that person. I also think the writers put this line into the show because later Rick talks about his kids in the prison – so they introduced the parent connection and shows that Carol lost hers but Rick still had his.

    I still think that Rick wanted to talk with Carol. If Carol would have shown some sense of remorse, I think Rick may have had a change of heart.

    Originally posted by fems
    I'm not disagreeing with you about how TPTB intended to show Carol's indifference and lack of sympathy (and patience) for the presumably dead hippies or even David and Karen, but it was written and executed poorly. Are we supposed to forget that Rick was the one who cuffed Merle to a roof and left him there to die, or how he recently ignored a backpacker walking along the road screaming for help - twice?! Rick didn't even flinch when they drove past the walkers munching on the guy on their way back to prison. How is that any different from Carol's reaction or lack thereof to the two dead hippy idiots?
    I think this was brilliantly written and well executed. Human emotions are not always practical or rational from person to person. One of the things I really enjoy with The Walking Dead is the emotional journey that all the characters are taking and it’s not going to be the same journey for each character even if in similar circumstances.

    I don’t think we are supposed to forget anything.

    Rick may have cuffed Merle, however they did go back for him. And if I recall there were other circumstance with why he left Merle cuffed, though at the moment I don’t recall all the details. Yes, Rick ignored the backpacker on the side of the road; everyone in the car ignored the backpacker. What was different is that no one knew the backpacker, everyone knew David and Karen so from an emotional standpoint it was easier to ignore someone who they didn’t know versus people that had been a part of their everyday lives. I would think it would be much much harder to kill someone you knew versus letting someone you didn’t know die.
    Originally posted by fems
    I also have to say that Carol's killing might have made more impact if we'd actually gotten to know Karen and David. I don't even know what David looked like or what his name was prior to him getting killed. Karen's name is something I've heard before (back with Andrea at Woodbury, unless it's a different Karen) but there wasn't any real connection with her either, aside from the brief scene between her and Tyreese. I don't care much for Tyreese, especially not in light of his stupidity with the two recent walker run-ins, so I care even less about Karen and their supposed romance.
    I am fine that we didn't get to know Karen and David. Their deaths were not the focus of the storyline, Carol and her personal emotional journey was. Their deaths showed just how far Carol was willing to go, how emotionless she had become. How detached she was from everyone. These were people that she had been living with for a few months and she could just go and kill them and then not feel anything for what she had done. If she felt she had to kill them to protect the community, she should have still had some sense of remorse but she didn’t have any – that’s what scared Rick.

    Tyreese is in mourning. He’s not thinking. He’s probably tired of all the pain and loss and his mind is messing with him. Part of him may be thinking about just dying but then this other part, the part that wants to survive kicks in and wakes him up. He’s just been lucky that he hasn’t been bit in the process. And yeah, I didn’t like that what Tyreese did because you are right, it was stupid and he doesn’t seem like a stupid man. People do do stupid things sometimes when they are in mourning because they are not thinking clearly.


    Originally posted by fems
    Oh and I disagree about Karen and David being kept isolated: Tyreese just walked in there to bring Karen flowers or something, without thinking about his health or how he might get the disease and spread it to the rest of the community. Someone had to bring the duo food and water too (who could also spread the disease) and if that wasn't Carol, then she got in there relatively easy to kill them. Unless, of course, Carol didn't kill them and is covering for Lizzie or Carl (the bloody handprint was small and very low on the door) who then also got in there, atop of Carol and Tyreese, without anyone really noticing.
    I meant more that Karen and David were staying in their own prison cells rather than continue to wander around. I don’t think they realized until the young boy died just how quickly the illness spread from person to person. And given those close quarters I would suspect everyone had already been exposed, it was now a matter of who would and who wouldn’t get it.

    It’s possible that Carol had Lizzie help her kill them. She was teaching the kids how to use knives and kill so it’s possible that she could have taken Lizzie with her to show Lizzie how to kill someone.
    Originally posted by fems
    Like I said before: their idea of quarantine is ridiculous I'm surprised they've all lasted this long!
    I would agree, what we saw on TV didn’t really show much in the way of a good strong quarantine.
    Last edited by Rosehawk; 07 November 2013, 07:03 PM.
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      #17
      WOW so much great discussion and I don't really have to time to quote and respond to sections of quotes but kudos to you all for doing that cuz it's a blast to read that way.

      But....about Rick knowing ahead of time he was going to ban Carol. I tend to agree that maybe Rick did start out thinking he MAY do that or he needed to hear Carol out to get more information from her BEFORE he made his final decision, but I think he must have prepared otherwise in thinking about it...she'd need her clothes and her coat and at least her basic backpack and supplies she had stowed away in her personal stash of stuff....so really the more I'm thinking aobut this ....the more ridiculous it was that he didn't allow her to go back and at least gather her supplies....so it was almost like Rick was afraid that the group would try and over turn his decision and allow her to stay in the group. Again I think this is purely a stand off between Rick and Carol regarding leadership/power/decision making and bucking authority. So I think Rick may have already packed up some of Carol's things in advance, becasue what person regardless of how emotionally detached they are to their things or people would just say oh yeah no problem I'll just take these few things I scraped together right here and make a go on my own I mean it makes no sense.

      I'm leaning more with Lone Star up there that this writing is out of Character no only for Rick but for Carol as well. I think Carol would've fought more to stay with the group. Because by her just laying down and allowing Rick to kick her to the curb that again goes against the years of abuse and bullying she took from her husband. So if Carol was indeed a changed woman she would've said HELL NO! To Rick and would've demanded that she go back before the other council members to help decide. Or at least until they get through the immediate crisis and then deal with the matter. I mean she is one very strong ...obviously not ill from the virus yet....so she could help with things back at the prison.

      Again I don't think Carol wouldn't intentionally harm the kids so for Rick to worry about her harming his kids that really was out of Character as well. True Maybe Rick is scared of her ...but GEESUS he should be more scared of his own son Carl who shot Lori dead during childbirth and really didn't seem to show alot of remorse for that honestly not like she should've. Rick taught Carl....you do what you have to do....when the time comes and you will know it. Well that is exactly what Carol did. And I think she did show some remorse....her kicking the barrels of water....true it was more of an anger that maybe she hadn't succeeded in stopping the virus with the killings but .....that was probably about as remorseful as she was able to get at this point. There is no doubt that Carol has hardened up since Sophia's death.... I mean she may even be a tad crazy...but to me they all ARE! Who wouldn't be with all they have endured.

      So yeah I think they need to really step back and make sure they are staying true to the characters and not make these leaps in logic sometimes. Maybe rick thought Carol would fight him on it and when she didn't he was shocked IDK....but I am still scratching my head that he would put her out like that.

      And thought it was weird and OOC for Daryl to do that to Bob about the booze too. I mean Daryl had Meryl as a brother did they all forget just what a psychopath he was and he wasn't a threat at all the group Yet he was allowed to stay in the prison with all his .....he probably had a meth lab going on I mean seriously the writers just wanted to see Daryl and Bob twerking

      OMG and speaking of meth lab.... I'm with you all.... GRAB ALL THE EFFING MEDS YOU CAN CARRY!! FOR HEAVEN SAKE....DON'T JUST GET WHAT'S ON THE LIST .... I mean it's important to AT LEAST GET THAT...but then fill the bags up!! I mean unless they have some code to only take what you need so others can get supplies...so it's not looting?? but come on that's sort of ridiculous at this point.

      anyway that is all for now.... my keyboard is smoking ......
      Last edited by squirrely1; 08 November 2013, 06:14 PM.
      Originally posted by jelgate
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        #18
        I think the problem with Bob was that he reached for his gun, indicating he was prepared to shoot Daryl (and Tyreese and Michonne) over half a bottle of booze. That's what angered Daryl, especially in light of the conversation they'd just had about what happened on their previous run with the booze and store collapsing and Beth's boyfriend whose name I don't recall (but that's okay, considering she hardly felt bad about him dying ) dying.
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          #19
          Originally posted by squirrely1 View Post
          And thought it was weird and OOC for Daryl to do that to Bob about the booze too. I mean Daryl had Meryl as a brother did they all forget just what a psychopath he was and he wasn't a threat at all the group Yet he was allowed to stay in the prison with all his .....he probably had a meth lab going on I mean seriously the writers just wanted to see Daryl and Bob twerking
          lol! Maybe it did have more to do with him putting his hand on his gun, but I can't recall that scene clearly. I only watched the episode once. Will have to rewatch it tonight when they show it again before the new ep.
          IMO always implied.

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            #20
            Ok, bit behind as always with TWD, but... OMG... I was expecting to see Herschel die this ep... not for Carol to be taken out the back paddock and left for dead...!!!

            I guess we had the past 3 episodes building up to this... seeing her portrayed more and more as the heartless one, so scarred from the past (2 years?) that she's lost all her compassion...

            Even though I suspected Rick was taking Carol with him to meter out justice, I literally was slack jawed as he gave her her marching orders... But yes, hopefully she'll be back...
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              #21
              Seemed to me like Rick just figured that convincing Carol to leave would be easier than dealing with Ty, and the reasons he mentioned would back him up. Even if we can understand her point of view, most people obv aren't indifferent even if it's for the benefit of the majority. We could go all philosophical about what Carol did, but god knows how surviving three years past apocalypse effect your mind.

              Daryl seems to handle pretty much everything just fine, he might go out looking for her though, seems like a pattern, or he might not care at all. I don't think Ty would be happy either, but what can he do. Lizzie however might make some trouble when not on a leash, they sure made a case of filming that knife.

              Why the hippie(s) didn't fire the gun when in trouble, I have no idea, seemed strange that they even wanted to pick up supplies when they'd locked themselves into a bathroom for two days because of one walker, why. Maybe the guy did it again.

              I wanted to like Ty 'cause of the comics, but I don't get him. And Bob, a lot of good him being able to read that handwriting when he didn't pick up anything noteworthy. I think Daryl got upset on a more general level, he has to clean up a lot of messes. If they make that a thing.. Why why does it all have to be about love. This is no soap opera.

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